SSA and Chastity

[Mark86]

I’ve been silently following this thread. I wish that I had the answer for you. You are in my prayers. I especially pray that your spiritual director can help you discern what is right for you. Unfortunately, there is no one answer to fit every person who struggles with SSA. Some find relief and solace in prayer and find that chastity/celibacy is the only path they can take. Among those who are lead to celibacy, some find that it helps to develop nonsexual same sex friendships, especially one close friendship, while others find that such are uncomfortable. Other people with that struggle can bring themselves to have sexual relations with the opposite sex and get married to someone with whom they fall in love. I even knew one couple where both the man and the woman struggled with SSA as their primary attraction, and they had three natural children. Fulfillment in life is not based on sexaand marriage, but it can be a part of it for some people. As I said, I will pray for you to find the answer which is right for you. I know enough people with the struggle that I wish I could say that it isn’t even sinful to have a loving committed same sex relationship, but I am not a theologian so I just trust the church on the issue.

Thank you for one of the most honest answers I’ve read so far, and I’m talking as someone who has read the relevant sections of Theology of the Body and the letter of Pope Benedict on the “pastoral care of homosexuals” and every resource on chastity that you can probably name… My question though continues along this line, that even if sex and marriage is not necessary for fulfillment in life, which I don’t think it is… what is? The fact of that matter is, we all have sexual desires, we all find other people attractive, beautiful, sexy…etc, unless we have some kind of a disorder or special grace from God that makes our minds 100% pure all the time. The fact of the matter is, we can’t repress these desires without them blowing up in our face, because the Church teaches that God caused us to have these desires for good reasons, that God didn’t make us into inhuman angels, but fully expects us to have and feel and somehow manage them according to reason. What is that reason? “To be fruitful and multiply.” So you can’t blame someone with a disordered sexuality, regardless of what it is, trying to follow the Church’s reasoning on this issue, to come to the conclusion that the only way they can be happy with their sexual desires is if they chase marriage. The Church says that the only end for those desires is marriage… so naturally, they put the two together and say “then does that mean I need to get married?” There’s no other way the Church promotes to be sexually fulfilled, so that must be the answer… right?

It’s a matter of simple logic. If the only end for my sexual desires is marriage, and I have these desires, then obviously I need to get married in order to fulfill these desires. Otherwise, I’m going to suffer with desires that I can neither repress or express. If every sexual thought I have needs to be “put down” … how is that not repressing it? And if it is just about repressing those desires, how is repressing one’s sexual desires a part of “living chastely?” …etc.

Here’s another way of putting it:

Some people would like the answer of “no” to gay sex to simply be the final word. However, as Eve Tushnet points out, “you can’t have a vocation of not-gay-marrying and not-having-sex. You can’t have a vocation of No.”

Even upon believing that I should not have gay sex, there are many further questions I must ask: How do I deal with feelings of shame? How can I love and be loved? How do I navigate friendships with other men? Do I need to isolate myself to avoid sexual temptation? How do I deal with sexual temptation when it occurs?

spiritualfriendship.org/2015/06/29/the-questions-we-ask/#more-5789

The Catechism does not answer ANY of these questions, nor does anything I’ve read from the Church answer any of these questions that might follow from how to live a happy life after the prohibition on sexual expression is understood. Yes, the Catechism says it can’t be practiced… but then questions naturally arise as a result… “what does this mean for me? how do I live with desires that can’t be fulfilled?” …etc. All the Catechism does is assure that happiness can “somehow” result, but it doesn’t teach how it can. It teaches how marriage or the special grace of celibacy is how sexual fulfillment is achieved. Chastity therefore = “marriage” or “celibacy” …according to the Church. Therefore, does that mean I need to be married or be celibate? How do I pursue celibacy when I have sexual desires? …etc. etc.

The Church really needs to answer these questions for people.

 

[newcalling]

Thank you for one of the most honest answers I’ve read so far, and I’m talking as someone who has read the relevant sections of Theology of the Body and the letter of Pope Benedict on the “pastoral care of homosexuals” and every resource on chastity that you can probably name… My question though continues along this line, that even if sex and marriage is not necessary for fulfillment in life, which I don’t think it is… what is? The fact of that matter is, we all have sexual desires, we all find other people attractive, beautiful, sexy…etc, unless we have some kind of a disorder or special grace from God that makes our minds 100% pure all the time. The fact of the matter is, we can’t repress these desires without them blowing up in our face, because the Church teaches that God caused us to have these desires for good reasons, that God didn’t make us into inhuman angels, but fully expects us to have and feel and somehow manage them according to reason. What is that reason? “To be fruitful and multiply.” So you can’t blame someone with a disordered sexuality, regardless of what it is, trying to follow the Church’s reasoning on this issue, to come to the conclusion that the only way they can be happy with their sexual desires is if they chase marriage. The Church says that the only end for those desires is marriage… so naturally, they put the two together and say “then does that mean I need to get married?” There’s no other way the Church promotes to be sexually fulfilled, so that must be the answer… right?

It’s a matter of simple logic. If the only end for my sexual desires is marriage, and I have these desires, then obviously I need to get married in order to fulfill these desires. Otherwise, I’m going to suffer with desires that I can neither repress or express. If every sexual thought I have needs to be “put down” … how is that not repressing it? And if it is just about repressing those desires, how is repressing one’s sexual desires a part of “living chastely?” …etc.

Here’s another way of putting it:

The Catechism does not answer ANY of these questions, nor does anything I’ve read from the Church answer any of these questions that might follow from how to live a happy life after the prohibition on sexual expression is understood. Yes, the Catechism says it can’t be practiced… but then questions naturally arise as a result… “what does this mean for me? how do I live with desires that can’t be fulfilled?” …etc. All the Catechism does is assure that happiness can “somehow” result, but it doesn’t teach how it can. It teaches how marriage or the special grace of celibacy is how sexual fulfillment is achieved. Chastity therefore = “marriage” or “celibacy” …according to the Church. Therefore, does that mean I need to be married or be celibate? How do I pursue celibacy when I have sexual desires? …etc. etc.

The Church really needs to answer these questions for people.

Yes, since the church has accepted that homosexuality is beyond a person’s control, the church should address what the options are for those with SSA. Unfortunately, the Bible authors didn’t know that homosexuality could be something which one deals with as their only sexual orientation. They believed it always came from lust or as a curse as a result of sin. So, not much in the Bible to guide them. I wish that I had answers beyond what I gave you. I hope that you find your answers by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I am celibate and chaste for other reasons, and I find fulfillment in friendship, prayer and service. I pray that the church finds more answers for those with SSA, and that you find your personal answers.

 

[Mark86]

Yes, since the church has accepted that homosexuality is beyond a person’s control, the church should address what the options are for those with SSA. Unfortunately, the Bible authors didn’t know that homosexuality could be something which one deals with as their only sexual orientation. They believed it always came from lust or as a curse as a result of sin. So, not much in the Bible to guide them. I wish that I had answers beyond what I gave you. I hope that you find your answers by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I am celibate and chaste for other reasons, and I find fulfillment in friendship, prayer and service. I pray that the church finds more answers for those with SSA, and that you find your personal answers.

Thank you again… in light of recent events in the United States, I hope now that we as Christians are about to enter into a period of persecution unlike anyone here has seen in generations, that the opportunity brings the Church here together more than it has been in recent decades, and I hope that it gives the Church an opportunity like it hasn’t had in quite a while to start to think about these topics in a different light than it is used to. Much of the Church’s response so far on this issue in particular has assumed a cultural consensus exists behind its precepts, and so hasn’t felt that a more in depth pastoral guidance is necessary, but it doesn’t have that luxury any longer. Now is the time to stand firm but also reevaluate how we teach, because the world has changed around us.

 

[Arandur]

We do know a few things from the Catechism… that all people are called to chastity, which is the “full integration of sexuality within the human person” and that sexuality “affects all aspects of the human person.” We also know that the ONLY end for this thing called “sexuality” is the procreation and unity of spouses. In an ideal world where human beings only ever felt sexual longings for opposite-sex spouses post marriage, this wouldn’t cause much of a problem for people, but obviously scripture and the Church tell us this is not an ideal world. People do things like “desire sex” regardless of whether they are married, “desire people” who they are not married to, desire that which closes the procreative and/or unitive ends of sexuality…etc., and so there’s all kinds of ways where people’s sexuality falls short of the angelic ideal.

Put these tree facts together in the case of homosexuals, and the most logical outcome would be something like the following:

1. Homosexuals have sexual desire like all human beings, and all human beings are then called to chastity…
2. What is chastity but the full integration of sexuality within the human person…
3. How does one “fully integrate” sexuality when its ONLY end is in the marital union than to contract the marital union and therefore “fully integrate it”…
4. Therefore, in order for homosexuals to practice a fully integrated sexuality (“chastity”), they must somehow conform it to the ONLY end to which it exists, which is in the marital union (one man, one woman).

I wonder how often people who are concerned about the plight of those who suffer from SSA consider how disproportionately they weigh this particular situation with other disordered appetites and struggles, or even with the much larger number of heterosexual people who aren’t able to fulfill their longings.

We all have disordered appetites, and sexual sins and lusts are particularly prevalent and very difficult to deal with.

But lets stick with the heterosexual people who, for whatever reason, also will never be married. How belittling is it to tell them that SSA people are being unduly burdened when their crosses are no worse than the loneliness of a single person who cannot find a partner? Than a maimed or disabled person who may never marry? Than a mentally-ill, depressed or bipolar, autistic, disfigured, obese, or just unattractive person who unfortunately faces constant rejection and never marries? Or even a wonderful person who just can’t find a spouse?

ALL bear the call to chastity. Many will never be married. Many CAN never be married.

Our culture does a great disservice to SSA (and gender-confused) people by not helping them, not finding solidarity in the human condition with everyone else, but pitying them, deceiving them, telling them their condition is truly different than everyone else’s rather than “we’re all in this together.” And it robs those with other difficult struggles of the legitimate difficulty of their situations, by saying “these people are to be pitied and they can ignore their calling to chastity (or fill-in-the-relevant-virtue), but you have to stick with it.”

How cruel.

By the way, **sexuality ** is FAR more than merely “sex acts with the sex organs.” The integration you refer to is far more than that. It is the whole “being” of a man or a woman. We are different, you know. And we are each special.

If you’re really seeking understanding, you can’t do much better than studying the Theology of the Body.

 

[Mark86]

But lets stick with the heterosexual people who, for whatever reason, also will never be married. How belittling is it to tell them that SSA people are being unduly burdened when their crosses are no worse than the loneliness of a single person who cannot find a partner?

I never said that. I never said that SSA are unduly burdened, nor did I insinuate it. I’m merely talking about a situation that I deal with, but it’s not even the only reason. Personally, I’m bisexual… I’m attracted to everything, so a lot of what I struggle with isn’t even connected with SSA but also some of the things you mention as well. I even stated in earlier posts that this doesn’t necessarily only concern homosexuals and I even asked about how it could be handled “in any case” … How does one who, for whatever reason, can’t “fully integrate” their sexuality in marriage live chastely, knowing of course that marriage is essential to the purpose of sexuality and that to live chastely means to “fully integrate” the desire with that end in mind?

It’s a simple question. You’d think someone in the Church would be able to answer it. Follow the logic of what I wrote, because it’s based entirely upon what the Church teaches.

1. Chastity is the “full integration of sexuality within the human person.”
2. Full integration means being in conformity with God’s plan.
3. God’s plan for human sexuality finds its only end in natural marriage.
4. Therefore, in order to live chaste, one must either be married, or have a special dispensation from God for celibacy.

So my question is rather simple in light of this… how does one live chastely when one can’t “fully integrate” one’s sexuality within their humanity (ie. get married?). That’s all. I’d really love to hear an answer to this mystery.

ALL bear the call to chastity. Many will never be married. Many CAN never be married.

And my question has always been, how? How do they do it? How does one live chastely and fully integrate their sexuality when they can’t carry it to its proper end in marriage (for whatever reason)? We can’t turn off our desires (UNFORTUNATELY). We can’t merely try to repress our desires. But then we can’t use them for the reason God gave them to us (for whatever reason). So the question is, what to do with them?

If you’re really seeking understanding, you can’t do much better than studying the Theology of the Body.

Yes, and I’ve read it. And if I answered this basic question then I wouldn’t be asking it here. The point is, John Paul II speaks in generalities and glosses over much of this and spends pages upon pages reiterating what a “hard question” it is without actually providing specific answers. It’s specific answers that I’m looking for, not general Church teaching that could apply to anyone.

What… does… God… want… for … ME… (personally)?

That’s the question.

 

[Arandur]

Now I’m confused. If you have bisexual attractions, why not choose to follow your attraction to the opposite sex, which is rightly ordered?

Chastity requires that sexual intercourse be expressed with only one person, anyway, because it is meant to be a total self-gift. I’m attracted to many women, but I must only express that sexually with one, or I rob the one-flesh union of its intimacy and meaning.

So how is this problem you are facing any different from anyone else’s who experiences sexual desire?

I think you missed my point, because what you said makes it seem even more valid: you seem to be shutting yourself off to the consideration that almost everyone faces the same sort of temptations, disproportionate desires and disordered appetites that you do. It’s a form of pride to make ones own problem “special;” and it can be demeaning to others.

So it may help you to open up and realize that the same advice given for the Christian walk (addressing all these disordered appetites that we have, all the inclinations to sin, but especially the sexual ones) is meant for you, and you can be in solidarity with everyone else.

How does one who, for whatever reason, can’t “fully integrate” their sexuality in marriage live chastely, knowing of course that marriage is essential to the purpose of sexuality and that to live chastely means to “fully integrate” the desire with that end in mind?

I think you’re mis-taking what “fully integrate” means. What do you think it means?

I mentioned that sexuality is not just about sexual intercourse. It’s about being, it’s about male-ness or female-ness, and all that encompasses. I relate to men and women, children and the elderly, society and God as a man, not as a woman.

To limit sexuality and distort it to mean that you must “fully integrate” all of your sexual desires would be extraordinarily misleading and unhelpful. Chastity is about moderating, tempering, controlling your sexual desires to order them properly towards God’s will and purpose, not to give in to our broken nature and any desire (or new ones that may arise).

Also, marriage is NOT “essential” to the purpose of sexuality in the sense you seem to suggest (so it’s not “of course”). Not everyone is called to marriage. You do not need to be married to fulfill your purpose, nor to “satisfy” your sexuality. You also don’t need to be a consecrated religious. Many are called to the single life, and can live it in fulfillment and chastity. Scripture and the Church have a lot to say about that.

It’s a simple question. You’d think someone in the Church would be able to answer it.

There are myriad answers. Catholic Answers covers it frequently. I’ve seen these sorts of sexuality questions addressed many places many times over. Perhaps it’s just not “clicking” with you yet. Give it time and openness. We can often blind ourselves to what is right in front of us–happens with Scripture all the time (how many times have I read that and never really “seen” it? ).

Follow the logic of what I wrote, because it’s based entirely upon what the Church teaches.

I don’t think it is, unfortunately…

1. Chastity is the “full integration of sexuality within the human person.”

This requires a correct understanding of the premise. As I’ve stated, it seems to me that you may have significant misunderstandings of what “full integration” and “sexuality” mean here, and perhaps even the term “human person,” which is also pretty deep in Catholic theology, not just a simplistic concept like our culture is confused about. If we don’t get premises right, nothing can follow from them.

1. Full integration means being in conformity with God’s plan.

And this helps illuminate what is meant by “full integration.” “God’s plan” reflects more on what “full integration” means than “full integration” reflects on what “God’s plan” is. In other words, since God’s plan is for the full dignity of maleness and femaleness as separate and distinct (and coequal!) to be realized, we need to be clear about what that design is and strive to help people become comfortable with who they are in their maleness or femaleness – not let them sink further into gender confusion like our culture promotes.

On the sexual desires and sexual intercourse level, “God’s plan” is clearly for sexual intercourse to be exclusive, lifelong, open to life, intimate, total-self-gift between one man and one woman (without even giving in to lustful thoughts), so disordered appetites for more partners or same-sex partners or abusive/demeaning sexual practices that are selfish/closed off to life need to be tempered, not “fully integrated.”

1. God’s plan for human sexuality finds its only end in natural marriage.

False premise, because of a too-limited and distorted definition of “human sexuality,” which encompasses more than the act of sexual intercourse. A true statement would be “God’s plan for sexual intercourse finds its only legitimate expression in the context of natural marriage.” Sexual desire is intended to lead to this end and insofar as sexual desire is expressed in lust/impurity or corrupts the total loving self-gift of sexual intercourse, it is out of control. And yes, with God’s grace it CAN be reigned in and conformed to his will. Scripture testifies to this, and the goal of “seizing every thought and making it obedient to Christ.”

 

[Arandur]

1. Therefore, in order to live chaste, one must either be married, or have a special dispensation from God for celibacy.

Because the premises are inaccurate, does not follow, but also contains another assumption: no “special dispensation from God for celibacy” is required. Where do you get that?

Chastity is the default state and that to which everyone is called. If you choose not to get married or, though greatly desiring it, never do, you did not “need” to be married. There is no “must.”

This statement makes it sounds like you think the Church says: “Get married or else.” Just not true. I can hardly wrap my mind around that, because I’ve never seen anything like it, certainly not from the Church. It’s not the vocation of everyone to be either married or consecrated celibate. Throughout its existence, the Church speaks to the single life.

So my question is rather simple in light of this… how does one live chastely when one can’t “fully integrate” one’s sexuality within their humanity (ie. get married?). That’s all. I’d really love to hear an answer to this mystery.

The question is hard for me to understand. Mostly I think it’s based on misunderstandings and incomplete or misleading definitions.

But also the simple answer is just: strive for self-mastery (as in all areas of life), particularly over sexual desires; only engage in sexual activity with someone if you have given yourselves to each other totally for life in natural marriage, open to bringing new life into the world (the greatest fruit of sexual intercourse); and rejoice in your maleness! Learn (like we men all continually must) to be a man! In the most authentic and true way, of course – which is to say, “Imitate Christ!”

We can’t turn off our desires (UNFORTUNATELY).

Actually, you can, or at least moderate them. Examples: Give in to sex or pornography and you want more and more. The opposite works. Take the Biblical approach (Job, I think it was) and starve the eyes, take instances of lustful thoughts and turn them to prayer and blessing for the person, and you will find that lusts diminish greatly. The amount of time you spend thinking about such things diminishes, the ease with which you can resist temptation increases. This is simply self-control, habit forming. It’s basic psychology, actually.

We can’t merely try to repress our desires.

It’s not repression. It’s change and control. Self-control, forming good habits. The Church has millenia of wisdom about building up the virtues and managing vices, and even secular self-help and psychology has a lot to say about this. You can replace negative attitudes, thoughts, and desires with positive ones. Think by analogy replacing pessimism with optimism; treating depression; anger management; appetite management; exercise habits; etc.

But then we can’t use them for the reason God gave them to us (for whatever reason).

Where does God say everyone has to have sex with someone (or else receive a special dispensation from Him)?

What… does… God… want… for … ME… (personally)?

That’s the question.

That’s the question…for everyone. The Church has tremendous wisdom and examples on how to listen to God for the answer. Plumb the depths of Scripture continually, read the lives of the Saints and the writings they left behind. Consult with others–though no one, not even a Spiritual Director, can tell you the answers always.

This is not an easy fix. Not an American “just take a pill or find the right tool/process” to fix it. Not a cut and dry answer. Finding what God wants for you is a lifelong process. His Will for you is not something that can be explained in a short, once-and-done answer. He will keep guiding you throughout your life.

 

[Mark86]

Thank you for your time and patience. Much of what you said did get through to me and there’s a few things that even reoriented my way of seeing things. I never claimed to be a genius at any of this, I’ve only been a Catholic for a year and a half, so I’m still learning. I only have a few more questions. I think one of the reasons I fall into disordered sexualities so much (SSA, fetishism…etc.) is because I’ve always had trouble with accepting my masculinity and accepting that it’s “okay” for me to be attracted to women. I tend to try to bury my sexuality and then it comes out in unhealthy ways, and then I struggle to get rid of it because it’s so damn addicting. I’ve gone from indulgence to hatred of my desire, and none of my ways for dealing with it have worked, so maybe you’re right. Maybe it’s time I start “being a man.” My father beat the tar out of me and my brother on a weekly basis and was extremely verbally abusive, so I suppose I dreaded the idea of being “masculine” because everything connected with it in my mind turned into an image of my father.

Now I’m confused. If you have bisexual attractions, why not choose to follow your attraction to the opposite sex, which is rightly ordered?

What does it mean to “follow your attraction?” Does that mean I should date? I don’t think I’m ready to date… I’d need to lose some weight. I’d need to buy nicer clothes. I’d need to shave every day. I’d need to move out of my parent’s house…etc. (no, my father’s not here anymore)… I’d need to get my emotional problems fixed… no woman would or should want me like this… and there you go, there’s my poor self confidence.

I think you’re mis-taking what “fully integrate” means. What do you think it means?

I guess that’s really the crux of it. Reading the Catechism, reading chastity sources and spiritual writings, I was lead to believe that a fully integrated sexuality meant that one was married with children, or, that one had a special grace to be celibate. If that’s not it, then I’m definitely open to learning more about what it means.

Chastity is about moderating, tempering, controlling your sexual desires to order them properly towards God’s will and purpose…

Then I got a long way to go before I’ll be anything that a woman would deserve. My sexuality, my emotional problems, my anxieties, my self-loathing, everything I am is a total expression of just how unworthy I am of God’s will and purpose. I’m broken in almost every way.

Many are called to the single life, and can live it in fulfillment and chastity. Scripture and the Church have a lot to say about that.

My question was always how they are able to, not whether they are able to.

And yes, with God’s grace it CAN be reigned in and conformed to his will. Scripture testifies to this, and the goal of “seizing every thought and making it obedient to Christ.”

It seems like it would take a miracle or perhaps many decades in my case before everything that is broken in me could be fixed and healed…

And if I’m not called to marriage anyways, then why would I be trying to fix myself anyways? Who would I be doing it all for?

But also the simple answer is just: strive for self-mastery (as in all areas of life), particularly over sexual desires; only engage in sexual activity with someone if you have given yourselves to each other totally for life in natural marriage, open to bringing new life into the world (the greatest fruit of sexual intercourse); and rejoice in your maleness! Learn (like we men all continually must) to be a man! In the most authentic and true way, of course – which is to say, “Imitate Christ!”

Just reading this makes me want to cry.

 

[Mark86]

What does it mean to “rejoice in your masculinity?” What is masculinity? I know what the stereotypes are… but what is it exactly that I need to “be”?

I’ve never been “manly” or “macho.”

 

[Arandur]

Thank you for your time and patience. Much of what you said did get through to me and there’s a few things that even reoriented my way of seeing things. I never claimed to be a genius at any of this, I’ve only been a Catholic for a year and a half, so I’m still learning. I only have a few more questions. I think one of the reasons I fall into disordered sexualities so much (SSA, fetishism…etc.) is because I’ve always had trouble with accepting my masculinity and accepting that it’s “okay” for me to be attracted to women.

Take heart! We all struggle. I deal with lusts and scars from pornography and so I know of disordered desires, too.

I tend to try to bury my sexuality and then it comes out in unhealthy ways, and then I struggle to get rid of it because it’s so damn addicting. I’ve gone from indulgence to hatred of my desire, and none of my ways for dealing with it have worked, so maybe you’re right.

Very common – you’re not alone! Try talking with someone who has or has had an addiction to pornography. Addictions are hard. But they’re not damning, and they’re not impossible. We just have to keep picking ourselves back up and returning to God’s endless Mercy with repentance and a deep desire to strive to avoid the sin, even knowing that we are likely to fall again. This is the saga of sin – but also the saga of Salvation, how God will ALWAYS take us back and offer us help!

Maybe it’s time I start “being a man.” My father beat the tar out of me and my brother on a weekly basis and was extremely verbally abusive, so I suppose I dreaded the idea of being “masculine” because everything connected with it in my mind turned into an image of my father.
This makes me so sad. The last 100 years seem to be at root the fruits of the Devil’s unrelenting and brutal attack on fatherhood. So much damage is caused by lack of fathers or poor/abusive fathers. It’s also very common for those with SSA to suffer from those attractions because of poor parental relations/lack of intimacy or good examples, particularly with the father (in fact, I’ve heard psychiatrists say it’s a universal experience for SSA; ~100%, which shows that it is woundedness, not the fault of the person suffering, but something needing love and healing and attention).

What does it mean to “follow your attraction?” Does that mean I should date?

I said that because I thought, by you saying you had attractions to both sexes, that, since chastity requires commitment to just one person anyway, that you could choose to pursue women, and you still did have an attraction to them, anyway.

I don’t think I’m ready to date… I’d need to lose some weight. I’d need to buy nicer clothes. I’d need to shave every day. I’d need to move out of my parent’s house…etc. (no, my father’s not here anymore)… I’d need to get my emotional problems fixed… no woman would or should want me like this… and there you go, there’s my poor self confidence.

Well, that’s your choice, and not everyone is ready to date, and dating is not always healthy anyway, but I would encourage you try to not make that decision based on poor self-image. Though you can work on those things (moving out of the house may be the most financially difficult and least necessary), the bigger issue I think is to try to prepare yourself for another person by working on your relationship with God, preparing yourself for marriage, seeking understanding. To prepare for marriage, seek to understand from the Church what it is – the Church has a VERY deep and beautiful idea of marriage. We will all carry it out imperfectly, but knowing what it is and should be is the first step towards trying to live it out more fully.

Ultimately, learning to love, learning selflessness and self-gift, sacrificing for others, commitment and being willing to forgive and ask forgiveness, having gratitude…these things help prepare one for any relationship, especially a marriage relationship.

I guess that’s really the crux of it. Reading the Catechism, reading chastity sources and spiritual writings, I was lead to believe that a fully integrated sexuality meant that one was married with children, or, that one had a special grace to be celibate. If that’s not it, then I’m definitely open to learning more about what it means.

The Church has held marriage and family in such high esteem that it may seem like this is the only path, but it’s not. It’s the most common one, so you hear about it more.

I’ll try to dig up some resources. I would suggest calling the Apologetics Help Line and otherwise following up repeatedly with Catholic Answers about this; I’m sure they have great resources they can direct you to!

Also, call up Fr. Vincent Serpa, either during the “Chaplain is In” radio segments or outside of it. I’m sure he can help better than I can!

 

[Arandur]

Then I got a long way to go before I’ll be anything that a woman would deserve. My sexuality, my emotional problems, my anxieties, my self-loathing, everything I am is a total expression of just how unworthy I am of God’s will and purpose. I’m broken in almost every way.

We’re never deserving; we get to freedom and peace when we admit that, and just strive to be better but recognize that love is unmerited, God’s love is unconditional! St. Francis of Assisi I think it was spoke of the joy of being infinitely in debt to God – knowing that He forgives that infinite debt. Jesus spoke of it in parables – the debtor for whom much is forgiven is more appreciative than the one who is forgiven little.

My question was always how they are able to, not whether they are able to.

It seems like it would take a miracle or perhaps many decades in my case before everything that is broken in me could be fixed and healed…

And if I’m not called to marriage anyways, then why would I be trying to fix myself anyways? Who would I be doing it all for?

Again, take heart! We truly are all broken beyond the point of being “completely” fixed and healed in this life. The Saints, as they grew closer to God, spoke of being even more aware of what terrible sinners they were. The closer you get to the light, the more stain and dirt you see. To whom much is given, much is expected. God doesn’t expect more of you than what you have right now; he doesn’t expect you to be a great saint instantly. Just keep walking with Him, baby steps, with a broken heart and contrite spirit, open to His Holy Spirit (yes, that can be hard to do, too, but it’s the honest effort and act of the will that is the important part).

Does that help? Again, Catholic Answers will have better resources, and Fr. Serpa will be a much better help than me. And I have met some really wise and wonderful people on these forums who can be of tremendous help.

You’re not alone, and there truly is much reason to hope! You are loved by many brothers and sisters in Christ here on earth, and loved beyond all possibility of imagining by God and the Saints!

P.S. You might reach out to Mary, Mother of God, whom Jesus gave to all of us as mother, and to St. Joseph, the “noblest of men,” the greatest of earthly fathers and examples of masculinity. Though we don’t see much of him in Scripture, what we see has great lessons for us, and remember that he is truly alive like all the saints are, and a great many with devotion to him have a relationship with him that is incredibly powerful. He is among the very greatest of Saints and what God works through His Son’s beloved foster father can be earth-shattering. As a father of small children myself, I find him endlessly encouraging, illuminating, supportive, and challenging; and he drives off temptation and inspires virtue mightily.

Just reading this makes me want to cry.

I’m sorry…I hope you didn’t take it to be judging…wasn’t intended that way…it’s at least as much for me as for anyone else!

What does it mean to “rejoice in your masculinity?” What is masculinity? I know what the stereotypes are… but what is it exactly that I need to “be”?

I’ve never been “manly” or “macho.”

I’ll have to find those resources…CA, various speakers, and other publishers will have more ideas and resources…

The Art of Manliness site (and books) are surprisingly good, as well. Focus on the Manly Virtues type posts and materials, but also the stuff that’s just pretty oriented towards male interests can be fun and good, too.
artofmanliness.com/

 

[Abba]

What… does… God… want… for … ME… (personally)?

That’s the question.

Hello Mark86,

You have asked a lot of good questions. Most of all what comes loud and clear through your posts is your sincerity in seeking and finding the answers. I will keep you in my humble prayers and ask God to enlighten and guide you. Please, if you get a chance pray for me and my family. I am having my share of problems to deal with myself.

You have asked a lot of questions and there are so many elements at play that I do not even know how to jump in. I would like to walk with you a little bit in your journey. I actually have more questions than answers right now.

1. I don’t understand why you think that you need to be sexually intimate with a person in order to ‘give back’ intimacy to others. Can you explain?
2. How is your spiritual life?
3. It seems as though the Church is imposing itself on you and is not embracing you, loving you, guiding you and protecting you. Instead, in your presentation the impression I get is that the Church has forbidden you certain things and has left you in limbo to fend for yourself with the limitations it has imposed. Am I getting this right?
4. One of the most beautiful things about our faith is that Jesus is not dead and He wants a PERSONAL relationship with YOU. Believe me, once Jesus fills your heart, human love will not compare.
5. I am a little confused by your reference of ‘integrity’. I even looked up the section: vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm I will have to read it again more closely but I wanted to post already and say hello. But, you may be interpreting this whole idea wrong. It seems to me that modern societies place a lot of importance on sex. Sex is every where. I have lived a chaste life for going on decades now and I don’t judge existence through sex lenses. I think that as you grow spiritually what now appear as an insurmountable problem will become the least of your concerns.
6. I don’t think it is negative to dominate our sexual desires. Remember Saint Benedict? He threw himself in a bush of thorn to dominate his desires. It’s like taming your body. Kind of like Plato said about controlling the three horses - we want to be in control and dominate the horse of desire.

Finally, I know a lot of people who for various reasons are living a chaste or celibate life and they are happy. They have embraced the situation in life.

Peace

 

[Abba]

There’s got to be more to life than going to confession every week to confess to being a homosexual. That’s what I’m wondering. What more is there to the SSA Catholic life?

Who said you have to confess being a homosexual? As far as I know, you would confess if you acted upon it. The Church understands it is a disorder just like any other disorder. Blindness comes to mind, blind people do not confess that they are blind. If the person is being deliberate that one things but to just suffer from the disorder is not a sin that needs to be confessed.

 

[Arandur]

Who said you have to confess being a homosexual? As far as I know, you would confess if you acted upon it. The Church understands it is a disorder just like any other disorder. Blindness comes to mind, blind people do not confess that they are blind. If the person is being deliberate that one things but to just suffer from the disorder is not a sin that needs to be confessed.

YES!

And that’s my objection to people being labeled (or even self-labeling) as “gay” or even “homosexual.” That’s why I prefer “same-sex attracted,” because I think it more accurately reflects that it, like other temptations, does not and should not define a person.