Sspx alternatives in communion with rome

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down_under

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I am trying to wrap my mind around why people would go outside the church to find the traditional latin rite when there seem to be several apostulates in the church that allow that very thing.

the priestly fraternity of peter

the apostolic administration of st. john mary vianney

center international d’etudes liturgique

the benedictine monastery of st. madeleine de le barroux

diocesan ecclesia dei indult mass centers

that seems like a lot of different alternatives to me. A lot of places one should be able to go to find the old latin rite. why stay involved with a scismatic protesting rite when you can still go to the old latin rite in the church without the contraversy.
 
The Oratorians of St. Philip Neri also celebrate the TLM.

Perhaps it is because it might be easier to get to an SSPX chapel and some are ignorant of the problems associated with the SSPX. There are three parishes in Toronto that celebrate the TLM. One of them is run by the Oratorians, I don’t know who runs the other two. There is also an SSPX parish in Toronto. For me, the SSPX chapel is much easier to get to than the other TLM parishes, although I would never go to it.👍

And then there are people who genuinely support the SSPX.:eek:
 
down_under said:
I am trying to wrap my mind around why people would go outside the church to find the traditional latin rite when there seem to be several apostulates in the church that allow that very thing.

the priestly fraternity of peter

the apostolic administration of st. john mary vianney

center international d’etudes liturgique

the benedictine monastery of st. madeleine de le barroux

diocesan ecclesia dei indult mass centers

that seems like a lot of different alternatives to me. A lot of places one should be able to go to find the old latin rite. why stay involved with a scismatic protesting rite when you can still go to the old latin rite in the church without the contraversy.
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Where I live, in Cambridge, England, the nearest regular Sunday mass is in London, 60 miles away, with a choice of indult or SSPX. I have not got a car, and the train is too expensive.

For my health, I spend the winter in southern Spain. There, the nearest ‘old mass’ centre is in Madrid, 400 miles away or so.

‘A lot of places one should be able to go to find the old latin rite.’ Oh really? Get real!
 
Well, I guess I’ll just give a little different perspective on why. You see, I do support the SSPX. And while another poster mentioned the fact that some might just be ignorant of the SSPX’s position, some who are anti-SSPX might also be ignorant of the same thing.
I know that some think that Archbishop LeFebvre was just some looney old priest who made up his own religion and that is completely no so. If you have any interest at all why some would support the SSPX, you would have to do some serious reading and research on Tradition and such.
Now, I’m not one to debate or try to prove my position. I am much too simple a person to want to even try. But after much thought and prayer and talking with my then priest, I am now a parishoner at a SSPX chapel, and my children attend SSPX schools. For me, I am in the right place. I continue, as most of my church friends and fellow parishoners do, to pray for a resolution to the present “break” in the Catholic Church.
God bless us all.
 
strix said:
Where I live, in Cambridge, England, the nearest regular Sunday mass is in London, 60 miles away, with a choice of indult or SSPX. I have not got a car, and the train is too expensive.

For my health, I spend the winter in southern Spain. There, the nearest ‘old mass’ centre is in Madrid, 400 miles away or so.

‘A lot of places one should be able to go to find the old latin rite.’ Oh really? Get real!
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Strix has a point here. Of course the situation is much worse in such places as Australia. In Melbourne - a city of over 4 million - there is a grand total ONE non-SSPX church that offers TLM. And throughout the 20-million strong population of Australia there are 3 locations - ALL on the east coast of the continent, which is roughly the same size as the continental US.
 
jcrc1312 said:
Well, I guess I’ll just give a little different perspective on why. You see, I do support the SSPX. And while another poster mentioned the fact that some might just be ignorant of the SSPX’s position, some who are anti-SSPX might also be ignorant of the same thing.
I know that some think that Archbishop LeFebvre was just some looney old priest who made up his own religion and that is completely no so. If you have any interest at all why some would support the SSPX, you would have to do some serious reading and research on Tradition and such.
Now, I’m not one to debate or try to prove my position. I am much too simple a person to want to even try. But after much thought and prayer and talking with my then priest, I am now a parishoner at a SSPX chapel, and my children attend SSPX schools. For me, I am in the right place. I continue, as most of my church friends and fellow parishoners do, to pray for a resolution to the present “break” in the Catholic Church.
God bless us all.
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A former SSPX seminarian once explained to me what the SSPX was all about, and I happened to agree with much of what he said. From what I understand, it wasn’t the Second Vatican Council that they disagree with, but with a lot of the liberal/progressive interpretations of it and the reforms that resulted from it. I agreed with a lot of what he said (although not all). What I disagree with is Archbishop Lefebvre’s decision to ordain those four bishops illicitly.
 
TorontoCatholic said:
The Oratorians of St. Philip Neri also celebrate the TLM.

Perhaps it is because it might be easier to get to an SSPX chapel and some are ignorant of the problems associated with the SSPX. There are three parishes in Toronto that celebrate the TLM. One of them is run by the Oratorians, I don’t know who runs the other two. There is also an SSPX parish in Toronto. For me, the SSPX chapel is much easier to get to than the other TLM parishes, although I would never go to it.👍

And then there are people who genuinely support the SSPX.:eek:
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What are the other two parishes in Toronto that celebrate the TLM? I know about Holy Family parish, which is run by the Oratorians, but what are the other two called? Also, do you know of any in Mississauga (where I live)?.
 
Morning_Star15 said:
What are the other two parishes in Toronto that celebrate the TLM? I know about Holy Family parish, which is run by the Oratorians, but what are the other two called? Also, do you know of any in Mississauga (where I live)?.
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Yes, Holy Family celebrates the Novus Ordo in Latin ad orientem. I went to the Easter Vigil there this year----AMAZING!

St. Vincent de Paul, also run by the Oratorians, celebrates the TLM. Their TLM is 9:30 Sunday morning, it is a Missa Cantata.

There is a parish in Scarborough and a parish in Schoemburg that celebrate the TLM.

The SSPX chapel is in Etobicoke.
 
TorontoCatholic said:
Yes, Holy Family celebrates the Novus Ordo in Latin ad orientem. I went to the Easter Vigil there this year----AMAZING!

**Ah, so they celebrate the NO, not TLM - that answers a long-standing question I’ve had. Some friends of mine have been to Latin Mass there (we have a friend who’s a seminarian at that parish) and I tried to find out from them if it was NO or TLM, but since none of us had ever, to our knowledge, been to a TLM, we couldn’t figure out which of the two this one was. 😛 **

St. Vincent de Paul, also run by the Oratorians, celebrates the TLM. Their TLM is 9:30 Sunday morning, it is a Missa Cantata.

**I didn’t realize there was another parish around here run by the Oratorians - I assumed you were referring to Holy Family. I just might check it out. 👍 **

There is a parish in Scarborough and a parish in Schoemburg that celebrate the TLM.

The SSPX chapel is in Etobicoke.
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Thanks for the info. 🙂 :tiphat:
 
The the beef the SSPX has with the Church runs deeper than the TLM.
 
Back on topic:

Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest (ICRSS)
Institute of the Good Shepherd (IPB?)
 
I’m getting weary of people non-chalantly stating that SSPX is “outside the Church.”

Are we more Catholic than the pope now?
  1. Vatican congregations have declared that relations with SSPX are an “internal matter of the Church”
  2. Cardinal Ratzinger lifted excommunication of SSPX adherents in Hawaii by their bishop declaring that even ardent public support of SSPX is not an excommunicable offense (which it would be if SSPX were outside the Church)
  3. Vatican congregation has declared it OK for Catholics to attend SSPX Masses and even financially support them
SSPX is not in schism. 1) excommunication of bishops is not somehow contagious and 2) disoebedience, even chronic disobedience, does not equate to schism, since schism entails a principled rejection of papal authority.

SSPX is perfectly justified and duty-bound to resist the demolition of the Church being perpetrated by Rome since Vatican II. Just as St. Paul “resisted [St. Peter] to his face” when St. Peter was causing scandal by fraternizing with the Judaizers, the SSPX and all Catholic are duty-bound to resist the Vatican II popes because of the scandal and destruction they’re causing in the Church. These other “apostolates” are actually enablers of the destruction by not resisting it.

No, the demolition of the Church runs much deeper than a collection of liturgical practices. There’s a theology emanating from Rome that’s inimical to Traditional Catholic theology – with its humanism, neo-Pelagianism, false ecclesiology, religious indifferentism, undermining of the dogma “No Salvation Outside the Church”, and false religious liberty. No Catholic who lived before the time of Vatican II would even remotely recognize these post-Vatican II institutions, and that’s a problem.
 
rescath said:
I’m getting weary of people non-chalantly stating that SSPX is “outside the Church.”
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ResCath: You’re right in the points you make, but in this place, because you’re arguing in favor of the SSPX, you’ll always be wrong. Sorry, just the way things seem to go around here.
 
parvenu74 said:
ResCath: You’re right in the points you make, but in this place, because you’re arguing in favor of the SSPX, you’ll always be wrong. Sorry, just the way things seem to go around here.
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Amen.
 
  1. Vatican congregations have declared that relations with SSPX are an “internal matter of the Church”
  2. Cardinal Ratzinger lifted excommunication of SSPX adherents in Hawaii by their bishop declaring that even ardent public support of SSPX is not an excommunicable offense (which it would be if SSPX were outside the Church)
  3. Vatican congregation has declared it OK for Catholics to attend SSPX Masses and even financially support them
Click to expand...
I am always amazed that people use these two arguments. Again and again and again, #1- got and official Church document for that? #2 -the Vatican upheld the excommunications in Nebraska and #3 -the Vatican has approved of people attending a chapel simply out of attachment for the TLM and the “big” letter they sent out was addressing 1 person in 1 circumstance.

BTW, I’m tired of people suggesting that the SSPX is just peachy.😉
 
bear06 said:
#2 -the Vatican upheld the excommunications in Nebraska
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The Vatican upheld the excommunication of Call to Action. There was neither affirmation nor negation of the other groups excommunicated in this case.

There is, however, president to suggest that excommunications of those who attend SSPX Masses are null and void; for more info on the case of “the Hawaii Six,” see the SSPX’s USA website for more info (including scanned images of the letters and decrees in question): sspx.org/diocesan_dialogues/honolulu_&_hawaii6.htm.

But like I’ve already suggested, arguing anything in favor of the SSPX on this forum is an exercise in futility and you seem to be making the point for me better than I can.
 
bear06 said:
I am always amazed that people use these two arguments. Again and again and again, #1- got and official Church document for that?
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On this point you’ve got the advantage. I don’t believe there are official documents on this topic; only answers press conference answers reported by journalists regarding the status of the SSPX. While it’s not meaningless to have the Cardinal Prefect of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei make a direct statement saying the SSPX is not in schism, it’s not the same as having a bona fide document stating it. I could be wrong, but I don’t believe such a document exists.

At least not this week.
 
Well, In the Diocese of Charlotte we do not have a choice. Our Bishop has decided not to honor the desires of the Holy Father and implement Ecclesia Dei Adflicta. The closest TLM is at least 3 hours away. The Vatican says the SSPX is not outside the Church, also not in full schism and one fulfills one’s obligation by assisting their masses. We do have an SSPX chapel in Charlotte and though I have been there twice, I do not make it a habit.Though the SSPX has some barriers to overcome to full communion, only the Bishops are excommunicated, not the Priest. The Bishops are the only ones who participated in a schismatic act.
 
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