Cardinal Hoyos was speaking on his own. it was not in an official document approved by the Pope. He can say the moon is mad from Joan Chittister’s rear end if he wants. It makes no difference. The Pope’s words are final. Anyone who adheres to the society s ecommunicated. Jut like Lefebvre was.pw, it does no good to dwell on bishops supporting pro-abort politicians, gay priests, priest abuse, etc. We know they won’t get excommunicated because they are mainstream and have dioceses to run. Suffice to say for us now is that under the Summorum Pontificum, the Pope has given the Ecclesia Dei commission the final say in dealing with TLM issues and if Cardinal Hoyos says the SSPX is not in a real schism, then it is not a real schism.
And to thistle, you are wrong on the Ecclesia Dei document. The SP supercedes it regarding all issues dealing with the TLM, or rather the EF.
You certainly have *that *right. And if the pope remains silent in the face of the abuses, it is as good as agreeing and approving, therefore, it follows that after the statements made by Cardinal Hoyos, the popes own silence is tacit agreement.pw, it does no good to dwell on bishops supporting pro-abort politicians, gay priests, priest abuse, etc. We know they won’t get excommunicated because they are mainstream and have dioceses to run. Suffice to say for us now is that under the Summorum Pontificum, the Pope has given the Ecclesia Dei commission the final say in dealing with TLM issues and if Cardinal Hoyos says the SSPX is not in a real schism, then it is not a real schism.
I’m hard headed and won’t back down from what I know is the truth. So any debate would be pointless!Actually my logic is sound. i would love to debate this personally with you. I’ll call you on my dime. here is my e-mail. catholictruth1@yahoo.com.
What a stupid comment.You certainly have *that *right. And if the pope remains silent in the face of the abuses, it is as good as agreeing and approving, therefore, it follows that after the statements made by Cardinal Hoyos, the popes own silence is tacit agreement.
dittosWhat a stupid comment.
I agrEe that was one of the dumbest I’ve heard. Pious woman what a joke!!! Because Benedict XVI hasnt said anything about Cardinal Hoyos’ , so his silence means he agrees??? LAUGHABLE!!! YOU JUST CANT DEAL WITH THE FACTS!!! LEFEBVRE AND HIS CRONIES ARE EXCCOMMUNICATED. THAT IS FACT!!!What a stupid comment.
Of course you agree, you are terrillmorris! The tired and laughable old Novus Ordo chestnut is your very own statement which I highlighted above! That one no longer has the effect to squelch and intimidate the SSPX! Sorry but the longer time passes the more it becomes evident that Archbishop LeFebvre single handedly saved the loss and annihilation of tradition and the Latin Mass by the modernists, for future generations of Catholics. VIVA ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE!!!I agrEe that was one of the dumbest I’ve heard. Pious woman what a joke!!! Because Benedict XVI hasnt said anything about Cardinal Hoyos’ , so his silence means he agrees??? LAUGHABLE!!! YOU JUST CANT DEAL WITH THE FACTS!!! LEFEBVRE AND HIS CRONIES ARE EXCCOMMUNICATED. THAT IS FACT!!!
Wow, this is starting to sound like a Mexican revolution (don’t ask me which one).Of course you agree, you are terrillmorris! The tired and laughable old Novus Ordo chestnut is your very own statement which I highlighted above! That one no longer has the effect to squelch and intimidate the SSPX! Sorry but the longer time passes the more it becomes evident that Archbishop LeFebvre single handedly saved the loss and annihilation of tradition and the Latin Mass by the modernists, for future generations of Catholics. VIVA ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE!!!
Catholicism without obedience or subjection to the Pope is no longer Catholicism, but another thing all together–usually called Eastern Orthodoxy. I fail to see how I could call myself a faithful Catholic but remain out of communion with the Pope. Bishop Lefebre never sat in the Chair of Peter; Pope John Paul II did, and Benedict XVI, who has never revoked the quoted document, still does. I, for one, live in, serve, and am a member of a living Catholic community united under one Supreme Pontiff.In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfill the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offense against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law (Ecclesia Dei 5c).
A hearty amen.The devotion to Jesus Christ, particularly in the Mass of all ages shown by the SSPX is wonderful and admirable.
Indeed, in a great sense they have kept traditional Catholicism alive.
However, it is beyond reasonable doubt that the bishops of SSPX are excommunicated by virtue of the fact they were consecrated without papal mandate.
It is very easy for all of us to turn the issue into one great “Traditionalists versus Liberals versus conservatives versus neo-cons” and for the issue to get very murky indeed.
However, fact of the matter is that the Bishops of SSPX were consecrated without the permission of the pope, hereby excommunicating themselves.
There is no doubt in my mind that the intentions of these bishops and of the great Archbishop were both noble and reasonable.
Unfortunately, they disobeyed the Pope when he expressedly commanded them otherwise. His requests were not heretical or massively unreasonable, although perhaps, unwise.
Is a bishop allowed to disobey the Pope because the Pope’s action is unwise? If the Pope was demanding that the SSPX disband or that they conform to heresy then maybe the Archbishop would have had more grounds for disobedience.
Decide for yourselves whether the request from the Holy Father was unwise.
The Pope says that 1 bishop will be consecrated on the 15th of August. The SSPX are allowed to celebrate the Tridentine Mass, and to be a society of pontifical right.
However, the Archbishop Lefebvre responded that he wanted 3 bishops and on the 30th of June. He went ahead and consecrated the bishops.
It’s hardly grounds for disobedience.
Rome has bent over backwards for the SSPX. Let your holy and devout bishops be seperated from the Holy See no more!
In Domino,
JD