SSPX and Novus ordo Mass

[dominikus28]

Question to those from SSPX (or those who know about what they believe): As far as I understand it, you (SSPX person) believe that the current Pope is in fact the Pope (unlike sedevacantists) and so you believe that like any Pope, he is infallible. What I am wondering is, do you believe that the Novus Ordo mass fulfils sunday obligations? I understand why they would avoid it, but if you cannot get to a Latin mass, would you go to a Novus Ordo mass? Or do you think that the Novus Ordo mass is heretical? If you do, then doesn’t that go against papal infallibility and the infallibility of the Church (The church cannot lead you away from salvation)?

And also, do you care if they attend a Latin Mass by a SSPX priest or a non-SSPX priest? I know a priest who says the Novus Ordo mass but also does the Latin Mass. Would you be opposed to going to the Latin Mass said by a priest who believes both masses are fine?

 

[corsair]

I attend the SSPX chapel in Portland, OR several times each year and the FSSP parish in Seattle, WA most of the time. However, I also attend the OF Mass at a local parish when I am short on gas money. (as has been the case for the last 3 weeks). I also attend the Dominican Rite when it is offered.

The Holy Father has said that the EF and OF Masses are two forms of the same Latin Rite. I believe him. Another however; do you like cake with chocalate or vanilla frosting? I like one (EF) more than the OF. But both are valid.

I, also, know many OF folks that have told me I’m going to hell unless I change my ways regards the EF. I even had an OF priest tell me the same. On the other hand I’ve had EF folks tell me the same. I just ignore them all.

I don’t get involved with all the theory and Canon law that seems to be so prevalent on these forums. I just go to Mass to worship God in the most reverent way I can. I don’t knock Byzantines or Orthodox or anyone else if I can help it.

Lots of my friends are strictly SSPX and thats OK with me as long as they do not attack my belief. (and they haven’t so far).

I’m watching the SSPX talks with Rome to see what, if anything, will transpire. I really don’t see where the two sides will reach an agreement within the next 100 years. But I pray that they do. God’s will be done.

 

[ConvertaKat]

I am glad that someone asked this because for the last week, I have been wondering the same.

Hubby and I attended a SSPX mass last Sunday. Didn’t even know about this form of the Catholic Church until I saw some bickering about it over at another place so I decided to go and see for myself.

Sadly, the priest there has all the makings of a superb auctioneer; he flew thru the mass in record time much like the “Fed-ex guy” in the old Fed-ex commericals. HOWEVER, having said that, I was struck at once by this feeling of…peace. Complete, utter quiet and peace.

At communion, as we knelt at the rails, one had this sense of love, wonderous and pure that was almost overwhelming to me.

I want to go back. Is this ok?

 

[Lycorth]

Question to those from SSPX (or those who know about what they believe): As far as I understand it, you (SSPX person) believe that the current Pope is in fact the Pope (unlike sedevacantists) and so you believe that like any Pope, he is infallible.

Yes, that is the official SSPX position. They do not believe in sedevacantism.

What I am wondering is, do you believe that the Novus Ordo mass fulfils sunday obligations?

As I understand it, they do not believe that the NO Mass fulfills one’s Sunday obligation, because of the danger of how easily the NO Mass is made to appear “protestantized” and thus the danger of acquiring a “protestant” (ie, modernist) spirit.

Even so, the SSPX acknowledges that all that is required for a valid Mass is the correct matter, form, and intention, so even on this they are not absolute, I think.

I understand why they would avoid it, but if you cannot get to a Latin mass, would you go to a Novus Ordo mass? Or do you think that the Novus Ordo mass is heretical? If you do, then doesn’t that go against papal infallibility and the infallibility of the Church (The church cannot lead you away from salvation)?

I don’t go to an SSPX chapel, though I would if one were close by (over three hours is a bit much to drive each week), but if I did I would still accept the Church’s teaching that the NO Mass is valid and, like I do now, only attend a NO Mass that I could personally observe to be valid (or at least appear to be valid).

The NO Mass is only heretical if it’s celebrated in such a way. The NO Mass is only as reverent as the participants (priests and laity both) wish to make it, but an individual NO Mass would only be heretical if the priest used it to teach or convey a heresy.

In and of itself, the NO Mass isn’t heretical and if celebrated according to its rubrics and with the proper matter and form and intention by a validly-consecrated priest, it’s safe to attend, though that applies to any Mass.

And also, do you care if they attend a Latin Mass by a SSPX priest or a non-SSPX priest? I know a priest who says the Novus Ordo mass but also does the Latin Mass. Would you be opposed to going to the Latin Mass said by a priest who believes both masses are fine?

The SSPX, to their credit, does not care, ultimately, if you assist at a Tridentine Mass at one of their chapels or elsewhere, so long as you assist at one with a validly-consecrated priest. They care more about getting Catholics to assist at the Tridentine Mass than swelling their own personal ranks. I personally would be happy to assist at a TLM by a valid priest who also thought that the OF Mass is fine - the point is I’d be assisting at a TLM.

I am glad that someone asked this because for the last week, I have been wondering the same.

Hubby and I attended a SSPX mass last Sunday. Didn’t even know about this form of the Catholic Church until I saw some bickering about it over at another place so I decided to go and see for myself.

Sadly, the priest there has all the makings of a superb auctioneer; he flew thru the mass in record time much like the “Fed-ex guy” in the old Fed-ex commericals. HOWEVER, having said that, I was struck at once by this feeling of…peace. Complete, utter quiet and peace.

At communion, as we knelt at the rails, one had this sense of love, wonderous and pure that was almost overwhelming to me.

I want to go back. Is this ok?

Sure it’s OK. The Church has declared that one can fulfill one’s Sunday obligation at a SSPX Mass; I’d cite the source but I don’t have my pamphlet on hand right now, but it is an official Vatican pronouncement.

I’m assuming you attended a “Low Mass” (ie, one without singing or chanting); Low Masses are often said quickly. I go to an Institute of Christ the King oratory for the TLM and the priest is very reverent, but also pretty zippy; I wish he’d slow down a little, as I’m still new to the TLM, but like you, the feeling of peace and holiness is literally palpable in a way it just plain is not at our parish church.

I like when the priest takes a little time for the sake of a more reverent Mass for God’s glory, but I’d also rather go to a Tridentine Low Mass that’s over and done with in only a half-hour or forty minutes than spend an hour in a church where the NO Mass is ruined with guitars, hand-holding, clapping, modern hymns that sound like hippie protest music, and lack of reverence shown for the Eucharist. Quality over quantity; I’m there for God alone, not for me.

 

[ProVobis]

Question to those from SSPX (or those who know about what they believe): As far as I understand it, you (SSPX person) believe that the current Pope is in fact the Pope (unlike sedevacantists) and so you believe that like any Pope, he is infallible. What I am wondering is, do you believe that the Novus Ordo mass fulfils sunday obligations?

I hope no one takes this the wrong way, but I think if one were sincere in his faith and beliefs, he would just concentrate on the Mass at hand instead of worrying about whether some other Mass, be it Novus Ordo or an Eastern Rite, is valid, legitimate, or what not. If the SSPX (or the Novus Ordo, for that matter) manages to get people out to go to “their own” Mass, they should not denigrate other rites or parishes or bishops or vernaculars in order to accomplish that. They should all promote the Mass for what it is. Sell and be honest with what you have, in other words. But that’s my opinion.

 

[floresco]

I want to go back. Is this ok?

As I understand it, this depends on your reason for going. If you are rejecting the validity of the Ordinary Form of the Mass, it is wrong. If you are going as an expression of devotion to Christ, it is allowed.

 

[Timothysis]

The SSPX, to their credit, does not care, ultimately, if you assist at a Tridentine Mass at one of their chapels or elsewhere, so long as you assist at one with a validly-consecrated priest.

This is not true. From their own website: "The Fraternity of St. Peter is founded upon more than questionable principles, for the following reasons:

**It accepts that the Conciliar Church has the power

*

  to take away the Mass of all time (for the Novus Ordo Missae is not another form of this, QUESTION 5),
*

  to grant it to those only who accept the same Conciliar Church’s novel orientations (in life, belief, structures),
*

  to declare non-Catholic those who deny this by word or deed (An interpretation of "Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism [of Archbishop Lefebvre] is a grave offense against God and carries the penalty of excommunication." Ecclesia Dei Afflicata), and,
*

  to professes itself in a certain way in communion with anyone calling himself “Christian,” and yet to declare itself out of communion with Catholics whose sole crime is wanting to remain Catholic (Vatican II, e.g., Lumen Gentium, §15; Unitatis Redintegratio §3).

*In practice, the priests of the Fraternity, having recourse to a Novus Ordo bishop willing to permit the traditional rites and willing to ordain their candidates, they are forced to abandon the fight against the new religion which is being installed

*They are therefore Conciliar Catholics and not traditional Catholics.

*That is why a Catholic ought not to attend their Masses.
*

Sure it’s OK. The Church has declared that one can fulfill one’s Sunday obligation at a SSPX Mass; I’d cite the source but I don’t have my pamphlet on hand right now, but it is an official Vatican pronouncement.

Even this is a little hazy. It is my understanding that one is free to participate in a mass by the sspx, but that if you have a diocesan mass available to you, then that is where your obligation is. If there is not a diocesan mass available, then you are dispensed from the obligation. Further, I have read that one should probably not receive communion at a sspx mass because it implies a oneness of faith that is not a reality. Remember that sspx priests are immediately suspended from their priestly duties upon ordination, so any celebration of the Eucharistic liturgy by them is done in disobedience. Added to that is the fact that sspx masses are “illicit,” which means they are “illegal” or “not allowed” under Canon law and you really have a source of confusion in the whole matter. I’m sure someone will mention that Cardinal Such-and-such said that it is ok to attend sspx masses, but that was in a letter to certain individuals with certain guidelines that the ones attending are doing it for access to the 1962 missal and not as a protest against the current Church. This was not a statement addressed to the whole Church but, like I said, to certain individuals.

Lastly, the FAQs on the sspx website have many statements that should raise the eyebrows of anyone who tries to be a dutiful and faithful Catholic.

 

[floresco]

Lastly, the FAQs on the sspx website have many statements that should raise the eyebrows of anyone who tries to be a dutiful and faithful Catholic.

I have a lot of sympathy for the SSPX but their current irregular canonical status does make things more complicated. Back to ConvertaKat’s question: it would be worth seeing if you can find a less complicated source for traditional Latin Mass (Extraordinary Form). Perhaps you can find an EF Mass offered by the FSSP or a diocesan priest.

 

[Timothysis]

I have a lot of sympathy for the SSPX but their current irregular canonical status does make things more complicated.

No doubt. Even Pope Benedict himself has said several times that the SSPX do NOT exercise any legitimate ministry in the Church. This should be a cause of concern.

I am sure that there are many fine priests in the SSPX, but I’m afraid that there is an undercurrent in the society that would split apart if any reconciliation came between them and the Holy See. I’m not the only one to think that there would probably be many splinter groups if does reconciliation happen.

 

[Lycorth]

This is not true. From their own website: "The Fraternity of St. Peter is founded upon more than questionable principles, for the following reasons:

Ah yes, I had forgotten about that.

The feud with the FSSP is one of the few points where I sharply disagree with the SSPX. But any Catholic can see that it is a wrong-headed feud in the first place. When it becomes schismatic for Catholics to have misunderstandings about other Catholics, however, then I’ll reject the SSPX on that ground.

But, that’s the only instance of ill feelings between the SSPX and another traditionalist group that I’m aware of.

Even this is a little hazy. It is my understanding that one is free to participate in a mass by the sspx, but that if you have a diocesan mass available to you, then that is where your obligation is. If there is not a diocesan mass available, then you are dispensed from the obligation. Further, I have read that one should probably not receive communion at a sspx mass because it implies a oneness of faith that is not a reality. Remember that sspx priests are immediately suspended from their priestly duties upon ordination, so any celebration of the Eucharistic liturgy by them is done in disobedience. Added to that is the fact that sspx masses are “illicit,” which means they are “illegal” or “not allowed” under Canon law and you really have a source of confusion in the whole matter. I’m sure someone will mention that Cardinal Such-and-such said that it is ok to attend sspx masses, but that was in a letter to certain individuals with certain guidelines that the ones attending are doing it for access to the 1962 missal and not as a protest against the current Church. This was not a statement addressed to the whole Church but, like I said, to certain individuals.

I’ll get a hold of my source when I get home and post it, but you are right to note that so long as one does not attend a SSPX chapel for any reason other than to assist at a TLM, that is permissible.

Lastly, the FAQs on the sspx website have many statements that should raise the eyebrows of anyone who tries to be a dutiful and faithful Catholic.

In what way? Off the top of my head, I don’t recall anything alarming or un-Catholic in any of their FAQs.

 

[floresco]

No doubt. Even Pope Benedict himself has said several times that the SSPX do NOT exercise any legitimate ministry in the Church. This should be a cause of concern.

On the other hand, I get the impression that the Pope has a lot of sympathy for them and is trying to bring about a full reconciliation. I think it is important to support the Pope in this by speaking of the SSPX respectfully and fairly.

 

[Timothysis]

In what way? Off the top of my head, I don’t recall anything alarming or un-Catholic in any of their FAQs.

You’ll have to look for yourself as there would be far too much to post here. I think it very telling that they denigrate the 1983 Code of Canon Law, yet turn around and cite it when it supports their purpose.

They employ much twisted logic to arrive at their conclusions, too. My question is, who should we obey, the SSPX or the legitimate Authority of the Church?

 

[ProVobis]

I’ll get a hold of my source when I get home and post it, but you are right to note that so long as one does not attend a SSPX chapel for any reason other than to assist at a TLM, that is permissible.

That is my understanding too, regardless of what they have said on their website.

 

[ProVobis]

On the other hand, I get the impression that the Pope has a lot of sympathy for them and is trying to bring about a full reconciliation. I think it is important to support the Pope in this by speaking of the SSPX respectfully and fairly.

I agree. Finding faults with their position of 20 years ago is extremely unproductive.

 

[ConvertaKat]

Thanks for the replies.

I completely concur that one can have a feeling of peace and reverance in a OF mass if the celebrant is willing to treat the service as one of joyfull respect…not open mike night with lots of jokes.

 

[wheels10]

As far as I know SSPX is not in full communion with the Catholic Church.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_letters/documents/hf_ben-xvi_apl_20090702_ecclesiae-unitatem_en.html

1. In the same spirit and with the same commitment to encouraging the resolution of all fractures and divisions in the Church and to healing a wound in the ecclesial fabric that was more and more painfully felt, I wished to remit the excommunication of the four Bishops illicitly ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre. With this decision I intended to remove an impediment that might have jeopardized the opening of a door to dialogue and thereby to invite the Bishops and the “Society of St Pius X” to rediscover the path to full communion with the Church. As I explained in my Letter to the Catholic Bishops of last 10 March, the remission of the excommunication was a measure taken in the context of ecclesiastical discipline to free the individuals from the burden of conscience constituted by the most serious of ecclesiastical penalties. **However, the doctrinal questions obviously remain and until they are clarified the Society has no canonical status in the Church and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry. **

Given the above text, can someone please explain to me how a person can still consider themselves to be Catholic if they choose to attend a SSPX Mass vs. a Catholic Mass?

 

[excubitor]

I hope no one takes this the wrong way, but I think if one were sincere in his faith and beliefs, he would just concentrate on the Mass at hand instead of worrying about whether some other Mass, be it Novus Ordo or an Eastern Rite, is valid, legitimate, or what not. If the SSPX (or the Novus Ordo, for that matter) manages to get people out to go to “their own” Mass, they should not denigrate other rites or parishes or bishops or vernaculars in order to accomplish that. They should all promote the Mass for what it is. Sell and be honest with what you have, in other words. But that’s my opinion.

What a pity your opinion is wrong.
The Anglican Mass is in many respects more orthodox than is the Novus Ordo mass. Yet which one should we attend? There is a huge difference between these two masses. Do you know what it is? One is endorsed by the one holy apostolic catholic church and the other one is not. One has legitimate priests consecrating and the the other one does not.

Therefore it is critical that we attend a mass which is endorsed by the church and consecrated by a legitimate priest.

It is quite clear that SSPX is NOT a legitimate church. The PCED has clearly stated that the SSPX priests have:

• no canonical status in the Church
• an illegitimate ministry
• a schismatic mentality
• illicit and invalid confessions
• illicit consecrations of the Eucharist

The Catholic church has allowed Catholics who frequently attend OF masses to occasionally attend an SSPX mass in order to enjoy their preference for the Latin Mass. In this they may fulfill their sunday obligation.

However Ecclesia Dei has warned Catholics to avoid frequent attendance of SSPX chapels so as to avoid their SCHISMATIC MENTALITY.

As if by tit for tat the SSPX have their own judgements about the NO mass (as they call it with disparaging tone). They teach that Catholics should have nothing to do with the NO mass. They even wrote an article on their website entitled with big letters.
WHY SHOULD CATHOLICS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NOVUS ORDO MISSAE ?
Here’s the link sspx.org/sspx_faqs/q5_novusordo.htm

In this article the pontificator of the SSPX makes the following claims about the OF mass of the church. That it is:

• not truly Catholic,
• not adequate to fulfil the Catholics Sunday obligation
• a pervasive and serious innovation
• the liturgy of a new religion
• not to be attended by Catholics who know of its harmful effects
• And therefore Catholics have NO RIGHT to attend it.

And that just scratches the surface of the wild accusations against the OF of the Latin Rite. Read the article.

Now then Pro Vobis wants to gloss over all this by claiming it doesn’t really matter which mass we go to. It certainly does.
The SSPX might think that they recognise the Pope. That is like the world recognises that he is the Pope. The world does not obey the Pope either. In fact the SSPX obey the Pope no more than my protestant friends. In fact the SSPX are worse than my protestant friends. The SSPX deliberately disobey the Pope even though they recognise him to be the Pope. Sedevacantists are superior to the SSPX. They at least sincerely believe that he is not the Pope which explains why they feel no compunction to obey him.

The SSPX like every schismatic group nevertheless have their Pope or Popes. The men who set the policy and agenda for their church. I think it is Msgr Fellay, but he has to listen to the various factions within the SSPX which is why the organisation kind of jolts from one opinion to the next at the drop of a hat just like it has ever since ABL ran the show.

As for faith and morals. I think the Pope of the SSPX is Fr. Peter Scott. His articles can be found moralising all over the SSPX web site. I wish that the SSPX did have a supreme pontiff of their own. At least if that supreme pontiff was to submit to the Sovereign Pontiff of the one holy apostolic catholic church then all of the SSPX would likewise submit. But the SSPX are an unruly rabble. If one part of it submits to the Sovereign Pontiff then the whole shabang will split in two or ten pieces and each faction would follow their own Pope into whatever oblivion men generally lead other men astray into.

So in answer to your question. The SSPX do recognise that Benedict XVI is the Pope in much the same way as your average American recognises him as the Pope. They give a kind of unconvincing lip service to the Pope. But as for giving the obedience which is due to the Sovereign Pontiff, then they are very sadly lacking and show that they do not really believe him to be the Pope in the sense that Catholics have generally regarded him in Tradition, as someone to be absolutely obeyed and followed even as Peter was.

 

[Timothysis]

So in answer to your question. The SSPX do recognise that Benedict XVI is the Pope in much the same way as your average American recognises him as the Pope. They give a kind of unconvincing lip service to the Pope. But as for giving the obedience which is due to the Sovereign Pontiff, then they are very sadly lacking and show that they do not really believe him to be the Pope in the sense that Catholics have generally regarded him in Tradition, as someone to be absolutely obeyed and followed even as Peter was.

One need only glance at their website to see that they say admit that John Paul II was legitimately pope, then use various and sundry arguments to explain why he was wrong to do this or that, why we do not need to follow everything the pope says and criticize him mercilessly.

 

[ProVobis]

Given the above text, can someone please explain to me how a person can still consider themselves to be Catholic if they choose to attend a SSPX Mass vs. a Catholic Mass?

Because their Mass is valid. And it is our obligation to assist at a valid Catholic rite on Sundays.

“If anyone says that a minister who is in mortal sin, though he observe all the essentials which pertain to the confecting or conferring of the sacrament, does not confect or confer the sacrament, anathema sit.” (DS 1612; cf. 1315, 1262, 793).

 

[ProVobis]

LETTER OF THE SACRED CONGREGATION FOR THE CLERGY
Under signature of Silvio Cardinal Oddi, President (March 17, 1984)

    [In answer to a family attending Mass at an SSPX chapel as to
    whether such attendance fulfilled her obligation for Sunday Mass,]
    "According to the New Code of Canon Law, 'The obligation of 
    assisting at Mass is satisfied wherever Mass is celebrated in a
    Catholic rite....'  I hope that settles your doubts."

DECREE OF THE CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH (HOLY OFFICE)
Under signature of Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect
Known as the “Honolulu Decision” (Protocol No. 14428, June 4, 1993)

In response to an appeal by one of the Honolulu Six against the decree
of the Bishop of Honolulu, the Congregation decreed:

    "This Congregation has examined carefully all the available
    documentation and has ascertained that the activities engaged
    in by the Petitioner ... are not sufficient to constitute the
    crime of schism.  Since [the Petitioner] did not, in fact,
    commit the crime of schism and thus did not incur the 'latae
    sententiae' penalty, it is clear that the Decree of the Bishop
    lacks the precondition on which it is founded.  This Congregation,
    noting all of the above, is obliged to declare null and void the
    aforesaid Decree of the Ordinary of Honolulu."

LETTER OF THE PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR CHRISTIAN UNITY
Under signature of Edward I. Cardinal Cassidy, President (May 3,1994)

    "The situation of the members of this Society [SSPX] is
    an internal matter of the Catholic Church.  The Society
    is not another Church or Ecclesial Community in the
    meaning used in the Directory.  Of course, the Mass
    and Sacraments administered by the priests of the
    Society are valid.  The bishops are validly ... consecrated."

LETTER OF THE PONTIFICAL COMMISSION “ECCLESIA DEI”
Under Signature of Rev. Msgr. Camille Perl, Secretary
May 28, 1996; repeated in Protocol N. 236/98 of March 6, 1998

    "It is true that participation in the Mass and sacraments at the 
    chapels of the Society of St. Pius X does not of itself constitute 
    'formal adherence to the schism.'"

September 27, 2002

    1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by 
    attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of Saint Pius 
    X.

    2. ...If your intention is simply to participate in Mass according to 
    the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin.

    3. It would seem that a modest contribution to the collection at Mass 
    could be justified.

INTERVIEW OF DARIO CARDINAL CASTRILLON HOYOS
PRESIDENT OF THE PONTIFICAL COMMISSION “ECCLESIA DEI”
Interview with Gianni Cardinale, of 30 Giorni

November 2005

    "Unfortunately Monsignor Lefebvre went ahead with the consecration and 
    hence the situation of separation came about, EVEN IF IT WAS NOT A 
    FORMAL SCHISM.

ON THE PURPORTED “EXCOMMUNICATION” OF ABP. MARCEL LEFEBVRE

ROSALIO JOSE CARDINAL CASTILLO LARA,
J.C.D. (DOCTOR OF CANON LAW)
President of the Pontifical Commission
for the Authentic Interpretation of Canon Law
President of the Disciplinary Commission of the Roman Curia

    "The act of consecrating a bishop [without explicit papal
    permission] is not in itself a schismatic act."

COUNT NERI CAPPONI,
D.CN.L. - LATERAN (DOCTOR OF CANON LAW)
LL.D. - FLORENCE (DOCTOR OF LAWS)
Professor Emeritus of Canon Law at the University of Florence
Accredited as an Advocate of the Holy Roman Rota
(the Holy See’s highest marriage tribunal)
Accredited as an Advocate of the Apostolic Signatura
(the Holy See’s highest appeals tribunal)

    "The fact is that Msgr. Lefebvre simply said:  'I am creating
    bishops in order that my priestly order can continue.  They do
    not take the place of other bishops.  I am not creating a
    parallel church.'  Therefore, this act was not, per se,
    schismatic."

PROFESSOR GERINGER, J.C.D.
Canon Lawyer at the University of Munich

    "With the episcopal consecrations, Archbishop Lefebvre was
    by no means creating a schism."

REV. FR. PATRICK VALDINI, J.C.D.
Dean of the Faculty of Canon Law at the Catholic Institute of Paris

    "It is not the consecration of a bishop that creates the schism.
    What makes the schism is to give the bishop an apostolic mission
    [which Abp. Lefebvre never did]."

REV. FR. GERALD E. MURRAY, J.C.D. (PONTIFICAL GREGORIAN UNIVERSITY)
Title of Doctoral Thesis Accepted: “The Canonical Status of the Lay Faithful
Associated with the Late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the Society of
Saint Pius X: Are they Excommunicated as Schismatics?”

    "They're not excommunicated as schismatics, because the Vatican
    has never said they are....  You can ... show that Lefebvre
    himself was not excommunicated and therefore no one else was....
    I come to the conclusion that, canonically speaking, he's not
    guilty of a schismatic act punishable by canon law.  In the
    case of the Society of Saint Pius X, the Vatican never 
    declared any priest or lay person to have become a schismatic."