SSPX and Rome : Latest Hint At What Will Transcend Sept 14th

[NihilObstatINRI]

Just one question . . . what did I say that made you want to go visit?

I’m kind of confused, because I think that I’m pretty objective about them.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

It is when you talk about those quiet priests in the background who want to make peace with the Church, and those who think like them. I want to see if I can find them.

 

[JReducation]

I have read most public pronouncements from the leadership of the SSPX over the past few years as well as several long interviews with Bishop Fellay and Father Schmidberger both in English and in German. That’s where I get my sense of the positions of the SSPX on various issues.

As for the distinction between SSPX-affiliated laity and the SSPX members themselves, I fully agree with you Brother JR. I don’t pay attention to the laity or to Bishop Williamson, who is not in the leadership (and I single him out here mainly because he is vocal – publishing his own newsletter – but also because he has had a lot of influence on the SSPX-affiliated laity in the USA).

But on the other hand, there are lots of good video and audio resources from SSPX priests where you can see what they teach in their own chapels. There are no polemics. No bashing. Just solid Catholic sermons and catechesis. And they must take preaching very seriously in SSPX seminaries. I’ve never heard a bad sermon from an SSPX priest. They are collectively the best preachers in the Church, in my opinion.

I have only been to two masses at an SSPX chapel, because we’re only allowed to go there if there is a charitable reason for doing so. I went to a funeral and I went to the first communion of a friend’s child. On both visits the sermon was fine and the mass was like the EF when one of our brothers does it, but with more bells and whistles than what is allowed in a Franciscan EF. That’s OK. They’re not Franciscans. They can do it up big.

However, as I said in post 200, I did learn my lesson. That is, not to trust the laity associated with the SSPX. It was not the priest who was rude to me, it was a layman. I was very offended, because I thought to myself, “What’s the big deal with attending a very reverent mass when you speak about the clergy in irreverant words?”

Later, when I went back for the First Communion, that’s when I had a chance to meet the priest. I stayed for the little gathering. He was a delightful kid. So much so, that I invited him to our community house. He came over, we had mass, at which he attended, because we cannot allow him to celebrate. Our superior can actually grant him faculties to do so, but that presents of conflict of interest. However, I was very impressed by the fact that he brought it up. He said that he understood the conflict of interest. From there, we have talked often and I get to ask him questions and he gets to ask me questions. We often laugh at some of the silly things people say on both sides of the aisle and at times we are both embarrassed by our constituents.

Do we always agree? Heck no. Do we always understand each other? Heck no. Do we like each other? Very much. Do we ever debate over dumb things like who said what at Vatican I, II or III? Heck no. We have many things in common. We deal with each other from our common points and ask many questions about the things that are diferent.

Like Will, I am discovering that among them there are divisions. Bishop Williamson and many American SSPXers are a group unto themselves. They’re angry and very difficult people to deal with.

I had this experience when I was up north with these very liberal Catholic groups. There were a few very nice people scattered in with a lot of very difficult people. In both settings I have wanted to say to these very vocal folks, “Just keep quiet. You’re not helping.”

Isn’t it unfortunate that the people who do our PR are usually the least helpful?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

It is when you talk about those quiet priests in the background who want to make peace with the Church, and those who think like them. I want to see if I can find them.

Ahhhh, they’re out there. But right now is not the time for mainstream Catholics to wander over to visit the neighbors. Wait and see what happens with the neighbors.

For God’s sake, don’t go attaching labels to yourself: Traditionalist, Orthodox, Conservative, Liberal or Martian. Just be a faithful Catholic. Live according to the Gospel. Be faithful to your life of prayer and grow in virtue. Labels will only poison your mind against your brothers and sisters.

The reason that we have so much division in this world is because we label and classify people.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

I agree. And it’s because they know what the mission of the Church has always been. The salvation of souls.

That’s an unfair statement. That makes it sound as if the rest of us have forgotten the mission of the Church and do not care about the salvation of souls. I take exception to this, because we work very hard for the salvation of souls. Each of us does so according to his vocation, according to his state in life, using the charism of his religious community, secular institute, diocese and other gifts and graces that God has given us.

Statements like that is what get knee-jerk reactions from the clergy and religious in the mainstream. While an SSPX priest may be delivering a wonderful homily, a Dominican Friar is teaching an excellent theology class, a Franciscan is sheltering homeless people, a Salesian is educating the young, a Missionary of Charity is picking up the dying from the streets. Why? Because of love for souls.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[NihilObstatINRI]

Ahhhh, they’re out there. But right now is not the time for mainstream Catholics to wander over to visit the neighbors. Wait and see what happens with the neighbors.

For God’s sake, don’t go attaching labels to yourself: Traditionalist, Orthodox, Conservative, Liberal or Martian. Just be a faithful Catholic. Live according to the Gospel. Be faithful to your life of prayer and grow in virtue. Labels will only poison your mind against your brothers and sisters.

The reason that we have so much division in this world is because we label and classify people.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Ahhh, two fun things to respond to.
The first: I do very much want to visit them. I want to attend their Mass too, but more out of curiosity, because I have a lovely FSSP Mass just as far away in a different direction. However my main reason for wanting to visit is to meet the people and get a sense of what that community is like. To simplify, is it more Fellay-ist, or Williamson-ist? I probably will hold off until we know more about the proposed resolution, and so I will re-evaluate when we hear more. I can contain my curiosity for the time being.
The second: I call myself a Traditionalist, very shortly, because I am. I prefer the TLM by far. I have issues with the common method of celebrating the Pauline Mass as I see it in my diocese, and I also have some points that I could make about the Missal itself, generally points that were made long before I was born in the Ottaviani Intervention. I say no more on that point with deference to a warning infraction that I received by a misunderstanding just the other day. To summarize the rest, in practically all issues where Catholics may legitimately debate and disagree, I have invariably over the last few years found myself falling more and more into the “Traditionalist” camp. So I did my research. “What did Traditionalism imply?” I wondered. I didn’t know. I’ve been raised in an extremely cafeteria-Catholic household, so I was working from a disadvantage. Well, I found all of that out. I agreed with all of it, after I had worked through the relevant points. Shouldn’t I call myself that, if that’s what I am?
I wouldn’t say that it poisons me against my brethren. Rather, it brings clarity and a sense of focus to me. Now that I’ve found that niche where I ‘belong’, I have an easier time finding spiritual works that are going to impact the strongest on me and inspire me to be better. I have a better sense knowing which sorts of prayers might bring my own prayer life closer to God. I have a special set of pitfalls that I can remind myself to be extra aware of, in case they creep up on me.
It’s not really about the label, per se. The name is a convenient way of expressing my spiritual life. If that’s how I am, why not say it?

 

[annaevers]

Again, keep up the great posts folks, many of us may not be taking part, but learning from the great dialogue.

:yup:

 

[JReducation]

Ahhh, two fun things to respond to.
The first: I do very much want to visit them. I want to attend their Mass too, but more out of curiosity, because I have a lovely FSSP Mass just as far away in a different direction. However my main reason for wanting to visit is to meet the people and get a sense of what that community is like. To simplify, is it more Fellay-ist, or Williamson-ist? I probably will hold off until we know more about the proposed resolution, and so I will re-evaluate when we hear more. I can contain my curiosity for the time being.
The second: I call myself a Traditionalist, very shortly, because I am. I prefer the TLM by far. I have issues with the common method of celebrating the Pauline Mass as I see it in my diocese, and I also have some points that I could make about the Missal itself, generally points that were made long before I was born in the Ottaviani Intervention. I say no more on that point with deference to a warning infraction that I received by a misunderstanding just the other day. To summarize the rest, in practically all issues where Catholics may legitimately debate and disagree, I have invariably over the last few years found myself falling more and more into the “Traditionalist” camp. So I did my research. “What did Traditionalism imply?” I wondered. I didn’t know. I’ve been raised in an extremely cafeteria-Catholic household, so I was working from a disadvantage. Well, I found all of that out. I agreed with all of it, after I had worked through the relevant points. Shouldn’t I call myself that, if that’s what I am?
I wouldn’t say that it poisons me against my brethren. Rather, it brings clarity and a sense of focus to me. Now that I’ve found that niche where I ‘belong’, I have an easier time finding spiritual works that are going to impact the strongest on me and inspire me to be better. I have a better sense knowing which sorts of prayers might bring my own prayer life closer to God. I have a special set of pitfalls that I can remind myself to be extra aware of, in case they creep up on me.
It’s not really about the label, per se. The name is a convenient way of expressing my spiritual life. If that’s how I am, why not say it?

That’s your call and I respect it. Me? I’m just a simple Catholic Franciscan Brother of Life as we say in the Franciscan family, I’m an OSF.

Maybe it’s easier for religious, because we have a very specific way of life. We don’t need the labels. You’re a Francisca, Salesian, Passionist, Missionary of Charity, Sister of St. Joseph, Christian Brother, etc etc. You’ve already chosen your path and your spirituality. You’re going ot stay in that school until death.



Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[At_Trent]

That’s an unfair statement.

No it’s not, it’s an opinion with an explanation why I hold such opinion. And this is an SSPX thread. Best homily I’ve heard in quite a while was from a Dominican but that has nothing to do with this thread,

You wrote “However, as I said in post 200, I did learn my lesson. That is, not to trust the laity associated with the SSPX. It was not the priest who was rude to me, it was a layman.”

So you claim to not trust the SSPX laity because of one layman ? That’s an unfair statement.

 

[NihilObstatINRI]

That’s your call and I respect it. Me? I’m just a simple Catholic Franciscan Brother of Life as we say in the Franciscan family, I’m an OSF.

Maybe it’s easier for religious, because we have a very specific way of life. We don’t need the labels. You’re a Francisca, Salesian, Passionist, Missionary of Charity, Sister of St. Joseph, Christian Brother, etc etc. You’ve already chosen your path and your spirituality. You’re going ot stay in that school until death.



Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

If labels were useless, then why would the different orders exist? You’re a Franciscan because in some way in matches your spirituality, am I correct? Something draws you to the Franciscan order that doesn’t draw you to the Jesuits or the Benedictines or the Basilians.
Well, I’m a layperson, and I’m not all that well-studied on the specifics of different orders, though I do know the general differences. However, I also find myself drawn to that which is usually labelled as Traditionalism.

 

[JReducation]

No it’s not, it’s an opinion with an explanation why I hold such opinion. And this is an SSPX thread. Best homily I’ve heard in quite a while was from a Dominican but that has nothing to do with this thread,

You wrote “However, as I said in post 200, I did learn my lesson. That is, not to trust the laity associated with the SSPX. It was not the priest who was rude to me, it was a layman.”

So you claim to not trust the SSPX laity because of one layman ? That’s an unfair statement.

So that comment is about payback?

I have mistrust of the SSPX laity, because after befriending one of their priests and several FSSP priests, I’m finding that what they say and what the laity says doesn’t alwasy match up. I have found that they look surprised when we ask about things that we read on blogs, here on CAF and even in some articles here and there. Too often I get the same answer. “We don’t teach that,” or “That’s not what we meant to say.” A answer that I recently got to another question was, “That’s Bishop Williamson and his group.” That took me by surprise. I know that the bishop is a difficult man, but I did not know that he has a following.

If labels were useless, then why would the different orders exist? You’re a Franciscan because in some way in matches your spirituality, am I correct? Something draws you to the Franciscan order that doesn’t draw you to the Jesuits or the Benedictines or the Basilians.
Well, I’m a layperson, and I’m not all that well-studied on the specifics of different orders, though I do know the general differences. However, I also find myself drawn to that which is usually labelled as Traditionalism.

That’s why I backed off, as you can see in my last paragraph. I thought about it as I was writing and it came to me that maybe it is easier for religious, because we have defined schools of spirituality, mission, and defined charisms. The layman does not have that benefit.

The layman has to find his niche, as you so aptly said. With us, it’s handed down to us liek a suit that you put on. You spend the rest of your life adjusting yourself to fit the suit, rather than adjusting the suit to fit you. Does that make sense?

I know what I’m trying ot say, but I’m not gettting the right words. Maybe I’m just tired.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[NihilObstatINRI]

I know what you mean now.

 

[simple_soul]

As I’m sure you know though, certain ‘strains of though’ if you want to call it that, have been authoritatively condemned. For instance, Modernism was a heresy condemned by Pope St. Pius X, which is the same reason the Society chose him as their patron. Liberalism when applied theologically can be proven erroneous in a variety of ways.
My point is only that there are certain objective criteria, and we certainly are called to condemn that which has already been condemned by Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium.

*I have no problem with condemning that which should be condemned.
But for me it is a learning process to try and understand exactly what it is that was condemned and exactly what it is that I am condemning.
Is it actually what I believe it is or am I condemning something based on “impressions.”
I have found that in order to start sorting out what is an impression and what is not an impression I to open my heart and mind to the understanding that what I am condemning may not be what I “think” or “assumed” it was. I will use Br. Jay’s post on how he explained how some laity may be speaking “for” the SSPX but when you take what they say and actually talk to the clergy they will tell you something else. If I had based my understanding of the SSPX on what some of the laity said, then my impression of the SSPX is tainted. I then have to open my heart and mind to actually hear what the laity is saying if I want to understand the truth. Do you see what I am trying to say? Sometimes we condemning something without really understanding what it is we are actually condemning and so need to try and understand exactly what it is and is it really that. I believe sometimes we use labels in cases that this label does not apply because of our limited understanding. In order to get a better or more clear understanding one has to open there heart and mind to the possibility of being wrong about their current understanding.

I know this probably sounds like I am rambling but I do hope and pray it makes some sense…*

 

[simple_soul]

I have no problem with condemning that which should be condemned.
But for me it is a learning process to try and understand exactly what it is that was condemned and exactly what it is that I am condemning.
Is it actually what I believe it is or am I condemning something based on “impressions.”
I have found that in order to start sorting out what is an impression and what is not an impression I to open my heart and mind to the understanding that what I am condemning may not be what I “think” or “assumed” it was. I will use Br. Jay’s post on how he explained how some laity may be speaking “for” the SSPX but when you take what they say and actually talk to the clergy they will tell you something else. If I had based my understanding of the SSPX on what some of the laity said, then my impression of the SSPX is tainted. I then have to open my heart and mind to actually hear what the laity is saying if I want to understand the truth. Do you see what I am trying to say? Sometimes we condemning something without really understanding what it is we are actually condemning and so need to try and understand exactly what it is and is it really that. I believe sometimes we use labels in cases that this label does not apply because of our limited understanding. In order to get a better or more clear understanding one has to open there heart and mind to the possibility of being wrong about their current understanding.

I know this probably sounds like I am rambling but I do hope and pray it makes some sense…

Sorry I had to correct myself here,It should read “I then have to open my heart and mind to actually hear what the clergy is saying if I want to understand the truth.”

 

[Planty_Pall]

Others have offered anecdotal experiences. Here is mine.

So much speculation about camps and groups and which side we are on. I think you might be disappointed (or encouraged) by the fact that many of the people at SSPX Masses probably couldn’t even tell you the names of the four bishops! I hang out here at Catholic Answers a little bit and the assumptions about what we are like seem so foreign to my six years of intimate involvement. The questions raised here about us very rarely are spoken of at church or elsewhere. Our pastor mentioned it in the announcements today before the sermon about the Sept. 14th meeting, urging us to pray for a good outcome. No commentary, no opinion, and then a normal sermon about the Gospel of the day. I am confident that many of the people hadn’t even heard of the meeting. I waited around until the second mass visiting. Not one person spoke to me about Sept. 14th, much less whether they are for this or that bishop. If you don’t go on the internet, you don’t even know that there are supposed to be these different “camps”.

I guess there are some who have big mouths and big ideas, and I am very very sorry about the usher who was so offensive. But I mix with these people weekly. I went to a party Friday night where there were about two dozen of us. We have picnics together, campouts, and another get-together on next Saturday where Father will be too. I guarantee you we are not even talking about this stuff…about whether we like or don’t like one bishop or other. We are trying to build up the Holy Name Society. We built a new playground. Father is starting adult catechism. Besides football, kids, and grandkids these are the subjects of the day, at least with me. Maybe its just our good little chapel? We were sitting around the fire Friday night listening to music, drinking wine, and talking about old TV shows. I think our people would be shocked to know all of the assumptions people have about us.

I am not qualified to speak about what all SSPX-laypeople are like either. I only live in one little corner of the whole structure. But I have serious doubts about whether our chapel is so extremely different from the rest. I suggest that to get your impressions from a few laypeople writing in their blogs, or here, would be to get a wrong view of the ordinary member of an SSPX chapel. You need to mix with the ordinary people, not the obsessionists (me perhaps?) who have to give opinions. I think I am more informed and opinionated than anybody I know at the chapel that isn’t related to me. I don’t congratulate myself about that. It can be a lot better to let that stuff be handled by those in the know. I don’t have an opinion on what I hope happens. A good outcome. That’s it. Whatever God wants. God help dear Bp. Fellay. God bless His Holiness, Pope Benedict. And all the bishops.

Poor Bp. Williamson. He is brilliant and cultured and kind and I love him too. He doesn’t care to learn the art of subtle criticism. He is certainly a feather ruffler. There is a place for a “difficult man” like that in the Church too. We aren’t splitting up, whatever happens. At least not in my little corner. We will do what we have done now for some time. We’ll go to Mass, wear our scapulars, pray our Rosary and leave it to Providence to save us and Holy Mother Church, disposing of us as He wills.

Planty Pall

 

[NihilObstatINRI]

Others have offered anecdotal experiences. Here is mine.

So much speculation about camps and groups and which side we are on. I think you might be disappointed (or encouraged) by the fact that many of the people at SSPX Masses probably couldn’t even tell you the names of the four bishops! I hang out here at Catholic Answers a little bit and the assumptions about what we are like seem so foreign to my six years of intimate involvement. The questions raised here about us very rarely are spoken of at church or elsewhere. Our pastor mentioned it in the announcements today before the sermon about the Sept. 14th meeting, urging us to pray for a good outcome. No commentary, no opinion, and then a normal sermon about the Gospel of the day. I am confident that many of the people hadn’t even heard of the meeting. I waited around until the second mass visiting. Not one person spoke to me about Sept. 14th, much less whether they are for this or that bishop. If you don’t go on the internet, you don’t even know that there are supposed to be these different “camps”.

I guess there are some who have big mouths and big ideas, and I am very very sorry about the usher who was so offensive. But I mix with these people weekly. I went to a party Friday night where there were about two dozen of us. We have picnics together, campouts, and another get-together on next Saturday where Father will be too. I guarantee you we are not even talking about this stuff…about whether we like or don’t like one bishop or other. We are trying to build up the Holy Name Society. We built a new playground. Father is starting adult catechism. Besides football, kids, and grandkids these are the subjects of the day, at least with me. Maybe its just our good little chapel? We were sitting around the fire Friday night listening to music, drinking wine, and talking about old TV shows. I think our people would be shocked to know all of the assumptions people have about us.

I am not qualified to speak about what all SSPX-laypeople are like either. I only live in one little corner of the whole structure. But I have serious doubts about whether our chapel is so extremely different from the rest. I suggest that to get your impressions from a few laypeople writing in their blogs, or here, would be to get a wrong view of the ordinary member of an SSPX chapel. You need to mix with the ordinary people, not the obsessionists (me perhaps?) who have to give opinions. I think I am more informed and opinionated than anybody I know at the chapel that isn’t related to me. I don’t congratulate myself about that. It can be a lot better to let that stuff be handled by those in the know. I don’t have an opinion on what I hope happens. A good outcome. That’s it. Whatever God wants. God help dear Bp. Fellay. God bless His Holiness, Pope Benedict. And all the bishops.

Poor Bp. Williamson. He is brilliant and cultured and kind and I love him too. He doesn’t care to learn the art of subtle criticism. He is certainly a feather ruffler. There is a place for a “difficult man” like that in the Church too. We aren’t splitting up, whatever happens. At least not in my little corner. We will do what we have done now for some time. We’ll go to Mass, wear our scapulars, pray our Rosary and leave it to Providence to save us and Holy Mother Church, disposing of us as He wills.

Planty Pall

Thank you very much for your perspective. I found it very interesting, and I very much hope that your experience reflects the rest of the faithful who attend SSPX Masses.

 

[JReducation]

(snipped for space)

I guess there are some who have big mouths and big ideas, and I am very very sorry about the usher who was so offensive. But I mix with these people weekly. I went to a party Friday night where there were about two dozen of us. We have picnics together, campouts, and another get-together on next Saturday where Father will be too. I guarantee you we are not even talking about this stuff…about whether we like or don’t like one bishop or other. We are trying to build up the Holy Name Society. We built a new playground. Father is starting adult catechism. Besides football, kids, and grandkids these are the subjects of the day, at least with me. Maybe its just our good little chapel? We were sitting around the fire Friday night listening to music, drinking wine, and talking about old TV shows. I think our people would be shocked to know all of the assumptions people have about us.

I am not qualified to speak about what all SSPX-laypeople are like either. I only live in one little corner of the whole structure. But I have serious doubts about whether our chapel is so extremely different from the rest. I suggest that to get your impressions from a few laypeople writing in their blogs, or here, would be to get a wrong view of the ordinary member of an SSPX chapel. You need to mix with the ordinary people, not the obsessionists (me perhaps?) who have to give opinions. I think I am more informed and opinionated than anybody I know at the chapel that isn’t related to me. I don’t congratulate myself about that. It can be a lot better to let that stuff be handled by those in the know. I don’t have an opinion on what I hope happens. A good outcome. That’s it. Whatever God wants. God help dear Bp. Fellay. God bless His Holiness, Pope Benedict. And all the bishops.

Poor Bp. Williamson. He is brilliant and cultured and kind and I love him too. He doesn’t care to learn the art of subtle criticism. He is certainly a feather ruffler. There is a place for a “difficult man” like that in the Church too. We aren’t splitting up, whatever happens. At least not in my little corner. We will do what we have done now for some time. We’ll go to Mass, wear our scapulars, pray our Rosary and leave it to Providence to save us and Holy Mother Church, disposing of us as He wills.

Planty Pall

Thanks for that Planty. I as I said, I believe there is a silent majority that just wants its mass and devotions. And you just confirmed it for me. The bloggers and the people who throw tirades are not truly representative of the whole. That’s what Father tells me too. So far, in my dealings with him, I find him to be a very pleasant young man with a great sense of humor, who laughs at thigs that people on these threads get angry about. In other words, something that someone would say here and another poster would get angry about, if you say it in Father’s presence,he laughs.

I’ll give you an example. I invited him to visit with us, because it was the Stigmata of St. Francis and that’s a big day for us. We were going to have a mass first and then a really nice brunch. Of course the mass was going to be very special. Our chapel is very small. People have walk-in closets that are bigger. It looks like a box. After mass he turned to me and smiled, “What no belly dancing?” I just retorted, “Nahhh, the Poor Clares couldn’t come today.” We all laughed. If any of you watch EWTN, you’re familair with the mass in the Franciscan Form and you would have seen the mass for the Stigmata.

Afrer the joke was over, Father wanted to see our missal and lectionary, because it’s not the same as the Roman Missal and lectionary. It departs on Franciscan holy days. We got into that conversation. He explained how he did not know that the Franciscans had a new missal. I explained how we’re working on rewriting the EF so that we can have that missal fit the current liturgical calendar. That led into talks about the complexities of thid kind of work, etc. He never uttered a single Buhuaaaaaaaaaaaa, because “you guys are moving things around in the EF”. That’s the kind of response that we often get from people on Internet forums. Father’s reaction ws, “That makes sense.” From there the conversation shifted to what was to come this weekend. After brunch he left because of Saturday confessions.

That’s my reason for fealing distrust when people start saying the SSPX wants, says or believes. I’m learning that it’s not always on the money. It’s more like Planty Pall has said. The larger group does not know and is not particularly interested in the details. Like the majority of the people in the mainstream who do not know and those who know something are not particularly interested in the details. These two large non vocal groups just pray that these things will just come to a close and they let the Vatican take care of it. They go about their daily lives with their parish picnic, flea market and whatever else is happening in the community.

I believe we should talk more about the normal day to day life of Catholics and less about what the SSPX and this bishop or that bishop is thinking, because we don’t know what they’re thinking until they tell us. We can say, “The rules say this and that.” To try to speculate what they want and don’t want is really a guessing game at this point.

Let’s just pray that this will come to a close soon.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Denise1957]

Others have offered anecdotal experiences. Here is mine.

So much speculation about camps and groups and which side we are on. I think you might be disappointed (or encouraged) by the fact that many of the people at SSPX Masses probably couldn’t even tell you the names of the four bishops! I hang out here at Catholic Answers a little bit and the assumptions about what we are like seem so foreign to my six years of intimate involvement. The questions raised here about us very rarely are spoken of at church or elsewhere. Our pastor mentioned it in the announcements today before the sermon about the Sept. 14th meeting, urging us to pray for a good outcome. No commentary, no opinion, and then a normal sermon about the Gospel of the day. I am confident that many of the people hadn’t even heard of the meeting. I waited around until the second mass visiting. Not one person spoke to me about Sept. 14th, much less whether they are for this or that bishop. If you don’t go on the internet, you don’t even know that there are supposed to be these different “camps”.

I guess there are some who have big mouths and big ideas, and I am very very sorry about the usher who was so offensive. But I mix with these people weekly. I went to a party Friday night where there were about two dozen of us. We have picnics together, campouts, and another get-together on next Saturday where Father will be too. I guarantee you we are not even talking about this stuff…about whether we like or don’t like one bishop or other. We are trying to build up the Holy Name Society. We built a new playground. Father is starting adult catechism. Besides football, kids, and grandkids these are the subjects of the day, at least with me. Maybe its just our good little chapel? We were sitting around the fire Friday night listening to music, drinking wine, and talking about old TV shows. I think our people would be shocked to know all of the assumptions people have about us.

I am not qualified to speak about what all SSPX-laypeople are like either. I only live in one little corner of the whole structure. But I have serious doubts about whether our chapel is so extremely different from the rest. I suggest that to get your impressions from a few laypeople writing in their blogs, or here, would be to get a wrong view of the ordinary member of an SSPX chapel. You need to mix with the ordinary people, not the obsessionists (me perhaps?) who have to give opinions. I think I am more informed and opinionated than anybody I know at the chapel that isn’t related to me. I don’t congratulate myself about that. It can be a lot better to let that stuff be handled by those in the know. I don’t have an opinion on what I hope happens. A good outcome. That’s it. Whatever God wants. God help dear Bp. Fellay. God bless His Holiness, Pope Benedict. And all the bishops.

Poor Bp. Williamson. He is brilliant and cultured and kind and I love him too. He doesn’t care to learn the art of subtle criticism. He is certainly a feather ruffler. There is a place for a “difficult man” like that in the Church too. We aren’t splitting up, whatever happens. At least not in my little corner. We will do what we have done now for some time. We’ll go to Mass, wear our scapulars, pray our Rosary and leave it to Providence to save us and Holy Mother Church, disposing of us as He wills.

Planty Pall

Planty Pall,

I’m glad to see that the SSPX chapel that you attend is not given to extremes of belief, such as the SSPX chapel that I had attended. Certainly there were those, in the chapel that I attended, who didn’t get involved in controversy, and who did not even have access to the internet, and who just wanted to live their Catholic faith according to tradition. But also at the chapel I attended, there were those who held extreme views, such as sedevacatism, revisionism, and fascism. These latter were the ones who befriended me, as the others didn’t go out of their way to befriend me. They were a minority, thankfully. But if you or others here care to visit the Ignis Ardens or Angelqueen forums, you will have an idea of how extreme the beliefs are of some of the SSPX followers. It isn’t pretty.

The Ignis Ardens forum (which I won’t post a link to) is very pro-Bp. Williamson, and is based in the UK. Most attend an SSPX chapel. The forum is also pro-Revisionist. Their allegience is to the bishop first, and the SSPX second.

I agree that Bp. Williamson is brilliant, cultured and kind. But given his staunch views on Revisionism, and Vatican ll, can you really see him going along with a reconciliaton? I was once a follower of the bishop and his ideas. Having read his Eleison Comments for a few years now, I would be shocked if he went along with any sort of reconciliation. I’d love to be wrong, though. I hope that he does go along, but it seems unlikely. Ultimately, the situation is in God’s hands. God can bring good even out of those things which seem bad.

 

[JReducation]

I think that the best way to deal with the Bishop Williamson question is to take to heart the words of Pope Benedict XVI. When asked about the lifiting of the excommunications, the Holy Father made two statements about Bishop Williamson.

He said that had he known, he would separated him from the others and not lifted his excommunication. It is pretty obvious in this statement that the pope considers this a very serious issue.

He also said, “I do not introduce anti-Semites into polite society.”

In another interview he described Bishop Williamson as “a very difficult man.”

At some point, his constituents are going to have to choose between the bishop and the pope, because obviously the pope does not hold his positions in high esteem.

It does not look like the Apostolic See is willing to negotiate on these points.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[NihilObstatINRI]

I can’t remember right now, what steps did the rest of the Society take to limit Bishop Williamson’s public statements? Have they silenced him?

 

[At_Trent]

Your Eminence

Amidst this tremendous media storm stirred up by imprudent remarks of mine on Swedish television, I beg of you to accept, only as is properly respectful, my sincere regrets for having caused to yourself and to the Holy Father so much unnecessary distress and problems.

For me, all that matters is the Truth Incarnate, and the interests of His one true Church, through which alone we can save our souls and give eternal glory, in our little way, to Almighty God. So I have only one comment, from the prophet Jonas, I, 12:

“Take me up and throw me into the sea; then the sea will quiet down for you; for I know it is because of me that this great tempest has come upon you.”

Please also accept, and convey to the Holy Father, my sincere personal thanks for the document signed last Wednesday and made public on Saturday. Most humbly I will offer a Mass for both of you.

Sincerely yours in Christ

+Richard Williamson

Not enough ?