SSPX and xenophobia

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Denial of the Holocaust, ties to fascist political parties, anti-Semitism, xenophobia.

You may have heard the allegations. is there any truth behind it?

How can a supposedly Catholic group support sins and errors like xenophobia and fascism?
 
Denial of the Holocaust, ties to fascist political parties, anti-Semitism, xenophobia.

You may have heard the allegations. is there any truth behind it?

How can a supposedly Catholic group support sins and errors like xenophobia and fascism?
Mate, I think the onus is on you to come up with some sort of evidence of this sort of thing, instead of “putting out the bait”.

I’m sure if you google it, you can find someone who accuses the SSPX of such things. In fact, you can find someone who accuses the SSPX of just about anything, and everything.

:yawn:
 
Holy Mother Church holds sinners to her bosom. We pray for our fellow pilgrims, that God may have mercy on them and hasten the unity of Christians.
 
Denial of the Holocaust, ties to fascist political parties, anti-Semitism, xenophobia.

You may have heard the allegations. Is there any truth behind them?

How can a supposedly Catholic group support sins and errors like xenophobia and fascism?
 
There’s a big difference between a SSPX position and the position of people who attend SSPX Masses. Having said that…

The anti-semitism charge is wrong. Catholics have been accused of this for centuries, it’s never been a vaild accusation. I’ve never actually met a SSPX anti-semite. Anti-semites hate Jewish people, but it is a Catholic position to hope, work and pray that the Jewish religion accepts Christ as the Messiah, Lord and Savior of all people.

As far as fascism goes… hahahahahaha. Fascism strictly adheres to authority, which is a laughable charge to a group outside the authority of the Church. Politically speaking, most SSPXers that I know are actually Monarchists.

Can’t help you with the xenophobe thing. Maybe SSPX goers are the kind of people that are likely to be closed-borders isolationists? It’s hardly a religious position and it’s unfair to accuse the SSPX of such a thing. Parishoners are not the same thing as the Society.
 
If what you are referring to is the fact that the EF Mass prays for the salvation of souls then I guess you could S-T-R-E-T-C-H it to mean anything you want it to be.
 
Denial of the Holocaust, ties to fascist political parties, anti-Semitism, xenophobia.

You may have heard the allegations. is there any truth behind it?

How can a supposedly Catholic group support sins and errors like xenophobia and fascism?
They have missions in some of the more unsavory parts of the world with their priests living in the same conditions are those to whom they preach. They are not anti-Semite, unless you use the modern definition of admiting they do not believe the Jews are right (which, by definition, is what every Catholic should believe. It is that simple. They deny what we hold to be Truth. They are in the wrong).

They do not support any particular form of government, behind Church structures.
 
Denial of the Holocaust, ties to fascist political parties, anti-Semitism, xenophobia.

You may have heard the allegations. is there any truth behind it?

How can a supposedly Catholic group support sins and errors like xenophobia and fascism?

There are certain varieties of ultra-traditionalists (if rebellion against and schism from the Pope can be called ‘traditional’) who believe these things.

Among them are sedevacantists like Mel Gibson and his father.

Whatever SSPX is guilty of, these charges are NOT among them.

(The Gibsons, btw, are not adherents of SSPX.)
 
Hardly. There are many Semitic peoples, and most Jews are not Semetic.

There are two sources I have seen for such allegations. One is The Passion of the Christ in which the adherance to the Truth is seen as being anti-semetic because he makes no efforts to avoid down playing anyone’s role in the film. The other incident was during inebriation. Considerind Borat can get people who are sober to make iffy statements, that is nothing to use as a basis for his beliefs.
and his father’s quotes about Pope JP II are not exactly very nice
JP II could be very ambigious at times. No pope is perfect.
Mel Gibson is not an authority within any church but merely a individual
No, even he admits his flaws.
 
Denial of the Holocaust, ties to fascist political parties, anti-Semitism, xenophobia.

You may have heard the allegations. is there any truth behind it?

How can a supposedly Catholic group support sins and errors like xenophobia and fascism?
The further a Catholic group (or at least a group that calls itself Catholic) strays from the mainstream Catholic Church, the more extreme views you will find among the people who are a part of it.
 
The further a Catholic group (or at least a group that calls itself Catholic) strays from the mainstream Catholic Church, the more extreme views you will find among the people who are a part of it.
This applies to those who are in “full communion” with Rome. Those weird bishops who think women should be priest. Those priests who allow Rabbi’s to preach in the church. I would think the SSPX’s disobediance is rather minor compared to some who are in the “mainstream Catholic Church”. The SSPX has people who may have weird beliefs, but as a whole, they are as Catholic as the Church was. Unless one wishes to say the Church is supposed to change, which is wrong. The Church never changes.
 
I’m sorry I actually found the passion of the Christ to be a disturbing work and without much artistic merit. Gibson made the remarks whether he was inebriated or not. I find the whole of the Passion of the Christ to be harking back to views of Jews as ‘Christ-killers’ By the way if you take issue with the exactness of the phrase anti-Semite (since of course the Arabs are Semitic peoples and you are right it does include many peoples) I will put it simply and say I regard Gibson as anti-Jewish. The movie itself is full of major historical inaccuracies.
Read the Bible. Especially the Gospel of John. It isn’t meant to be against all Jews (Christ and His mother were Jewish), but the truth. Many are called, but few are chosen. Those who rejected Christ rejected Him. Jews reject Him to this day. This is not a reason to hate, but a reason to pray, but it is the truth. They say the person who is the Son of God, who came to this earth and died by our hands, was just a man (and the Talmud says the most hateful things about Jesus and Mary…)

People get in an uproar when the TLM prays for the Jews, but nobody knows about Nittel night.
I’ll tend to take JPII though over Mel or his father, especially Mel’s father who made some foul comments about JPII.
Yes…John Paul II was a Pope. Mel admitted his flaws before and submitted to Rome openly.
Also Gibson bankrolls people who believe Vatican 2 was illegitimate so I tend to find his sincerity as a Catholic questionable to say the least.
He has openly acknowledged JPII as being the Pope several times.

He also gives money to other non-Catholics who are in need (he just doesn’t make a big deal over it): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Gibson#Philanthropy

In fact, I think people are much harder on Mel Gibson for his few flaws than they are on open heretics.

Mel Gibson in a state of inebriation makes negative remarks about Jews and he is condemned. An entire religion calls the most sacred person in the world the most awful things, and they are ignored (incidently, they are the same people about whom Mel made those remarks). I’d prefer Mel’s flaws over open heresy.
I don’t see him as a great moviemaker by any means.
I never said he was, and that has nothing to do with him.
 
They are heretics of Judaism, which was God’s chosen people to bear Jesus. They have introduced many errors (definition of heresy) into what was once truth.
  • that is a bizarre argument to make. And I detect a troubling subtext to your remarks about the Jews in any case.
Not really. I just think you are uncomfortable saying the truth. I bear Jews no malice and most Jews are good people.
 
Mel Gibson has openly and clearly stated that he believes the Novus Ordo Mass to be invalid. Does that not in of itself make him a sedevacantist?

The Passion of the Christ is a beautifully written movie and is totally faithful to the bible. The fact that Pope John Paul II approved of it should clear of any doubts. The fact that it shows how the jewish leaders of 2000 years ago behaved does not make it anti semitic nor should people accuse him of doing that.
 
Does that not in of itself make him a sedevacantist?
No. Be definition, a sedevacantist believes that the Seat of Peter is unoccupied (hence, the term). He openly stated John Paul II was the Pope in the seat of Peter.

Also, the term “Novus Ordo” is not the most accurate. Did he condemn the Pauline Liturgy itself, or the modern abuses found in many NO parishes?
 
intersting thread. I had to look up xenophobia to determine that it is the fear of foreigners or those significantly differnet from oneself. Whether the sspx carries this I can not comment. I know they will have no part with any worship other than there traditional form. So maybe this makes them xenophobes. ???

Fascism. Fascism is not an error but correct organization. And proper government. The actions of some fascist movements may well be wrong and evil but fascism itself is not wrong nor evil. After all exactly what kind of Government is the Catholic Heirarchy. Or what would you call the government set up through Moses by God?

IMO
 
Xenophobic? I suppose that depends on your definition of xenophobia. Antisemitic? Although I am sure most SSPX members are fine people, I do find the teachings of SSPX to be antisemitic. They teach that Jews, as a people, are tainted by a blood curse that renders them morally inferior. I don’t know what to call that but anti-semitic.
 
Front National is a word that springs to mind…along with Scouts de France.
 
not officially, good analogy is American right wing Catholics (both clergy and laity) and the Republican Party.
 
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