SSPX and xenophobia

[pnewton]

I have read many of the comments made by SSPX leaders and members that are less than charitable and even down right nutty at times. However, one should never judge the group by what any individual, even their leader, says as a personal opinion. As a Catholic, we should be ready to defend the right of any leader from the Pope down to be wrong in personal opinion or judgement and still be a source of sound teaching. It is hypocritical then to turn the SSPX and use the same thing against them.

Also, if we have any common sense about the way news is brought to us we should know that people in leadership are under great enough scrutiny to produce questionable statements, which are often twisted, the fed us as fact.

Remember the Golden Rule when dealing with any group you disagree with.

 

[pnewton]

If you are not saying the SSPX’s teaching on the blood curse and the in-born amorality of the Jewish was the teaching of Rome before the “coup d’etat” by “ecumaniacs” what are you saying?

coup d’etat? Did the Vatican fall and no one tell us?

 

[LaRoza]

What are you referring to here? From my knowledge (and I do not know much about it), Nittel nacht was a time when Jews tried to protect themselves from violent attacks by Christians.

It is Christmas eve, when Jews shun all things that are good in recognition of the birth of the “evil man”. Some will not study the Torah on this day.

We, Catholics, recognize the errors of Judaism and pray for them. They blaspheme and insult Christ and Mary.

Many people are uncomfortable with criticising Jews, mainly because it is taboo in light of the Holocaust where anyone showing any disagreement with Jews is lumped in with the Nazi’s. However, people should grow some backbones and realise they are not above criticism and we should be informed.

For those who were uncomfortable with my comments about Jews, do you know what I know? I have no malice or hate, but I have knowledge and I see their errors. It has nothing to do with calling them killers of Christ or an inferior “race”, but with their own written dogma.

 

[LaRoza]

I have read many of the comments made by SSPX leaders and members that are less than charitable and even down right nutty at times. However, one should never judge the group by what any individual, even their leader, says as a personal opinion. As a Catholic, we should be ready to defend the right of any leader from the Pope down to be wrong in personal opinion or judgement and still be a source of sound teaching. It is hypocritical then to turn the SSPX and use the same thing against them.

I have read the same, but I also have read even worse things from Bishops and priests in good standing with Rome. Outright heresy.

 

[eelpis]

It is Christmas eve, when Jews shun all things that are good in recognition of the birth of the “evil man”. Some will not study the Torah on this day.

We, Catholics, recognize the errors of Judaism and pray for them. They blaspheme and insult Christ and Mary.

Many people are uncomfortable with criticising Jews, mainly because it is taboo in light of the Holocaust where anyone showing any disagreement with Jews is lumped in with the Nazi’s. However, people should grow some backbones and realise they are not above criticism and we should be informed.

For those who were uncomfortable with my comments about Jews, do you know what I know? I have no malice or hate, but I have knowledge and I see their errors. It has nothing to do with calling them killers of Christ or an inferior “race”, but with their own written dogma.

Rabbinical Judaism can be very anti-Christian. I googled Nittel nacht and came upon an article written by a Hassidic Jew- he stated that every Christmas eve the Jews read the Toledoth Yeshu, an anti-Christian Jewish writing from the 6th century that is very blasphemous to Our Lord Jesus.

 

[LaRoza]

Rabbinical Judaism can be very anti-Christian. I googled Nittel nacht and came upon an article written by a Hassidic Jew- he stated that every Christmas eve the Jews read the Toledoth Yeshu, an anti-Christian Jewish writing from the 6th century that is very blasphemous to Our Lord Jesus.

Not only can it be, it is.

There is also much in the official teachings about Jesus and Mary which is gravely offensive (so offensive, I learned of them on a site which defends Islam. If statements about Jesus and Mary can offend Muslims, think of how we ought to feel?).

However, the Church and its members are normally silent on this. However, the Jews (well, some Rabbis and the secular press) made a big deal out of the MP because the TLM is “anti-semetic” because it prays for the conversion of Jews.

 

[LaRoza]

That is true. However, my point is that the members of the True Church shy away from the Truth.

Also much of the Muslim world has less than charitable ideas about the Jewish people - let’s see this site you are refering to though so we can gauge it’s viewpoint.

Why? The site was not the source. It led me to the source, straight from the horse’s mouth, quotes from Jewish teachings that are not well known outside Jewish circles.

Since I do not have a copy of the text they reference on hand, and it would be a pain to give direct references, here was the page:

answering-christianity.com/jews1.htm

The quotes are referenced and we can look them up for ourselves.

Remember, although the average Jew does not follow their own teachings, that does not change the fact it is a teaching they have and has not been changed. Perhaps the fact that most Jews do not have such beliefs makes them bad Jews but good people?

 

[pnewton]

I have read the same, but I also have read even worse things from Bishops and priests in good standing with Rome. Outright heresy.

What does that have to do with the topic? Two wrongs will never make a right. Obviously such writings do not represent Catholicism. Would you suggesting that they would justify anti-Catholicism? Of course not.

 

[LaRoza]

What does that have to do with the topic?

Because some people act like statements from SSPX people are written in stone, and ignore the fact that many priests and bishops of the Church make statements in error.

Two wrongs will never make a right.

No, they don’t.

Obviously such writings do not represent Catholicism. Would you suggesting that they would justify anti-Catholicism? Of course not.

I know. That is why I mentioned it. The SSPX is often seen as something to be looked down upon. The statements of some of its members are often seen as being insane, however, no one notices how universal it is.

 

[pnewton]

The statements of some of its members are often seen as being insane, however, no one notices how universal it is.

Yes, but let’s not jump to conclusions about what the posters here notice. For example, I have noted in the past and read about some things said by SSPX which really do sound unbalanced, like from the aluminum foil hat cadre. The fact that I would comment on it would not mean that I was blind to equally problematic statements by others. It just means that I was only commenting on one statement (or person) at a time. In another thread we might discuss a Protestant statement, or Catholic statement.

 

[LaRoza]

Note what I said, it quotes the verses so no matter the rest of the site, you can look that up yourself. That is why I didn’t want to post it, but I also didn’t want to read the Talmud more than I had to.

 

[bkovacs]

Denial of the Holocaust, ties to fascist political parties, anti-Semitism, xenophobia.

You may have heard the allegations. is there any truth behind it?

How can a supposedly Catholic group support sins and errors like xenophobia and fascism?

Don’t listen to liberals!.

 

[Cluny]

It seems that in November, Bishop Williamson, SSPX, gave an interview in which he personally denied the Holocaust.

remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2009-sspx_bishop_to_be_charged.htm

So far as I know this is merely the opinion of Bp. Williamson and (though it may be widespread) does NOT represent the official stance of SSPX; certainly not that of the Church.

 

[603304529]

I think this addresses every concern for the SSPX, brought up in this thread.

%between%sspx.co.uk/page5.htm

NEWS FROM THE SCANDINAVIAN MISSION

IMPORTANT STATEMENT
20th JANUARY 2009

The press secretary of the Catholic Diocese of Stockholm, Sweden, has issued a statement in anticipation of a Swedish television report concerning the Society of Saint Pius X (to be broadcast on 21/01/09).

The diocesan release pretends to deal with different issues surrounding the Society and concludes with the paragraph: ‘We would like to make clear the differences between them (SSPX) and the Catholic Church. We completely distance ourselves from all forms of racism and anti-Semitism. The Catholic Church in Sweden has nothing to do with the “Crusade” for making Sweden Catholic again, as reported by the programme, and does not support it in any way.’

As the Society of Saint Pius X continues to do what the Catholic Church has always done, and remains committed to upholding traditional papal teaching, in opposition to the neo-modernist errors which are at the root of the crisis in the Church, we completely reject any charges of being ‘outside the Church.’

Furthermore, the implication that the Society of Saint Pius X is somehow racist is entirely false and unjust. Both the faithful who support the Society and the members of the Society itself come from diverse ethnic backgrounds, and include Africans, Indians, Asiatics, and Caucasians, all of whom are united in their Catholic belief and practice, without any distinction or prejudice.

Concerns held by individuals, for instance, over the consequences of mass-immigration in different parts of the world, cannot in any way be termed ‘racist’ or ‘xenophobic.’

Similarly, the Society rejects wholeheartedly the slur that it is anti-Semitic. We embrace without reserve the condemnation of racism, and the proud folly behind it, as made, for example in Pope Pius XI’s encyclical Mit brennender Sorge, which deals with the errors of National Socialism. To despise the Jewish people because of their race is to go against the fundamental law of Christian charity which is to ‘love ones neighbour as oneself.’

Whilst the Society rejects and deplores all and every prejudice and discrimination against the people from which Our Lord and His holy Mother came, it cannot be described as anti-Semitic to pray for their conversion to the true Faith, to study their recent and tragic history, or to question some of their political objectives. To do so, in the case of this latter, would be to condemn the ultra-orthodox Jews, who disagree with the founding of the State of Israel, as ‘anti-semitic!’

Rejecting the idea of a peaceful and prayerful determination to work towards the conversion of Sweden, the Stockholm Diocese very regrettably appears to display its dissent from the Catholic Church’s mission of ‘teaching and baptising all nations’ as commanded by Our Lord Himself (Matthew 28,19), and this seemingly in the name of a false ecumenism.

The accusations made against the Society in the TV emission, and which appear to be echoed in the diocesan statement, are false and unworthy of those who made them. This being said, we do well to heed Our Divine Saviour’s injunction of ‘praying for our enemies and doing good to them that persecute us.’

Father Paul Morgan
SSPX District Superior of Great Britain
(with responsibility for the Society’s apostolate in Scandinavia)

 

[Seamus_L]

I look forward to the day when the SSPX fully return to the Catholic Church. They would be the blood transfusion we need in so many liberal dioceses.

 

[eelpis]

The scandinavian societies are hypersensitive to PC issues, so no wonder the SSPX got in trouble there.

 

[603304529]

The scandinavian societies are hypersensitive to PC issues, so no wonder the SSPX got in trouble there.

Yes. A shame that the mainstream diocesan Catholics come up with this sort of PC drivel: “The Catholic Church in Sweden has nothing to do with the “Crusade” for making Sweden Catholic again”.

As Fr Morgan appropriately points out: “the Stockholm Diocese very regrettably appears to display its dissent from the Catholic Church’s mission of ‘teaching and baptising all nations’ as commanded by Our Lord Himself (Matthew 28,19)”

 

[eelpis]

Yes. A shame that the mainstream diocesan Catholics come up with this sort of PC drivel: “The Catholic Church in Sweden has nothing to do with the “Crusade” for making Sweden Catholic again”.

As Fr Morgan appropriately points out: “the Stockholm Diocese very regrettably appears to display its dissent from the Catholic Church’s mission of ‘teaching and baptising all nations’ as commanded by Our Lord Himself (Matthew 28,19)”

I think the Swedish bishop had to protect his back against bad press.
Sorry to say I think it’s a very little chance indeed to convert Sweden to Catholicism but I have to congratulate the ones who try.

Do you think it would be easier in, let’s say Italy?