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clem456
Guest
I think you missed the point here also…
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JM3
Guest
And some would be looking for a fight they will not get.
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curlycool89
Guest
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JM3
Guest
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jam070406
Guest
How many laity, in real life, have you known that tell other people what to wear?
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Melchior_1
Guest
On this message board, plenty!
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CesarAugustus
Guest
But these are from people tired of the inaction of some Parishes. Seriously, when I read these modesty threads, I feel like some were trying to guilt trip me because I want more modesty.
Seriously, what is the problem with that?
Blessings!
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Oneofthewomen
Guest
Maybe because there is no “standard” of modesty. 
My typical summer outfit- denim capri pants, a top that may or may not be sleeveless (but not “skimpy”) and my Beirkenstocks. To many who post in the “modesty threads” this would be unacceptable.
My typical summer outfit- denim capri pants, a top that may or may not be sleeveless (but not “skimpy”) and my Beirkenstocks. To many who post in the “modesty threads” this would be unacceptable.
But these are from people tired of the inaction of some Parishes. Seriously, when I read these modesty threads, I feel like some were trying to guilt trip me because I want more modesty.
Seriously, what is the problem with that?
Blessings!
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TimothyH
Guest
2 Samuel 6 came to my mind for some reason.
When David went home to bless his own house,j Michal, the daughter of Saul, came out to meet him and said, “How well the king of Israel has honored himself today, exposing himself to the view of the slave girls of his followers, as a commoner might expose himself!” But David replied to Michal: “I was dancing before the LORD. As the LORD lives, who chose me over your father and all his house when he appointed me ruler over the LORD’s people, Israel, not only will I make merry before the LORD, but I will demean myself even more. I will be lowly in your eyes, but in the eyes of the slave girls you spoke of I will be somebody.” (2 Samuel 6:20-22)
-Tim-
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CesarAugustus
Guest
But every place can have a reasonable standard of modesty, not necessarily a planetary one.Maybe because there is no “standard” of modesty.
My typical summer outfit- denim capri pants, a top that may or may not be sleeveless (but not “skimpy”) and my Beirkenstocks. To many who post in the “modesty threads” this would be unacceptable.
I have read that some speak about other cultures, that we are being offensive to people in other places for example, South America and such… but I’m from South America and I’m not offended.
-But maybe someone would say I’m an Aristocrat of European descend or something like that so that doesn’t count.- 
— Anyways, sorry for the mini rant. 
I get the impression that some people are very comfortable living a life in line with secular trends.
Blessings!
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giuseppeTO
Guest
If the sequence of events transpired the way I understand they did and the CDF modified the preamble from a form that was agreeable to the Society and sanctioned by the Pontiff, then you have it backwards. It was actually Cardinal Levada who threw the Pope “under the bus”.
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jwinch2
Guest
Lately on this forum it seems that there is an overall trend of looking at external manifestations of comport or dress and making speculations about internal activity or intent. In addition, there seems to be a trend of taking one’s own personal preferences about comport and trying to pass them off as some sort of authoritative teaching. For example, see the thread on putting your arm around your spouse at Mass.
Personally, I believe that it is important to be presentable and dress well when going to Mass and I make efforts to do so. However, I have also been to Masses where people were in shorts and flip flops. etc. and found a very reverential environment and people who took their faith seriously. Since I have become Catholic, I have lived in some of the more poor places in the USA where for many, putting on a decent pair of blue jeans, a T-shirt that they don’t wear for work, and shoes instead of boots is dressing up. At a local Campus Catholic Center I used to help out at, the same thing could be said for a college student wearing khaki shorts, a decent t-shirt or polo, and a pair of Nike or Under Armor flip flops which probably cost upwards of $40.
There are people I know who dress very well at Mass but openly dissent with Church doctrine; and, one of the guys I went through RCIA with shows up to Mass all the time in shorts and a T-shirt but happens to be one of the most pious and prayerful guys I know, and is completely orthodox in his positions. Not to mention that he spends half of his day debating with oneness Pentecostals about the Bible and Church doctrine.
Are there times when someone’s dress does become a legitimate issue? Of course, particularly if things are scandalous. For example, I know that I should not turn my head to the left too much during Mass because there is a young college-age girl who wears very tight and often low cut shirts as well as skirts which I would classify as a bit too short for her. I wish she would not wear that clothing, and I do find it inappropriate. What is interesting though is that she seems to be one of the more prayerful and pious young people in our parish. She is at adoration frequently, almost all parish functions, comes to regular daily mass, and serves as a Lector. In addition, in her defense, she is a very tall girl (probably 6 feet) who is also slender in build but with a large chest. I would imagine it is not easy for her to find clothing appropriate for her age, that actually fits.
Bottom line? The old adage of not being able to judge a book by its cover holds true more often than not. In addition, many of us, including myself, could stand to pay a little less attention to what others are wearing or how they are sitting at Mass and a little more attention to God.
Having said all of that. I certainly prefer a beautiful and reverential Mass, though I am more spiritually fulfilled by the OF rather than the EF, and am not willing to compromise on teaching the Truth of the Faith.
Why we are having this conversation in a thread about the SSPX and why it always seems to turn into this when there are already plenty of threads about how to dress or act at Mass, I am not sure; but here we are again, so those are my thoughts.
Personally, I believe that it is important to be presentable and dress well when going to Mass and I make efforts to do so. However, I have also been to Masses where people were in shorts and flip flops. etc. and found a very reverential environment and people who took their faith seriously. Since I have become Catholic, I have lived in some of the more poor places in the USA where for many, putting on a decent pair of blue jeans, a T-shirt that they don’t wear for work, and shoes instead of boots is dressing up. At a local Campus Catholic Center I used to help out at, the same thing could be said for a college student wearing khaki shorts, a decent t-shirt or polo, and a pair of Nike or Under Armor flip flops which probably cost upwards of $40.
There are people I know who dress very well at Mass but openly dissent with Church doctrine; and, one of the guys I went through RCIA with shows up to Mass all the time in shorts and a T-shirt but happens to be one of the most pious and prayerful guys I know, and is completely orthodox in his positions. Not to mention that he spends half of his day debating with oneness Pentecostals about the Bible and Church doctrine.
Are there times when someone’s dress does become a legitimate issue? Of course, particularly if things are scandalous. For example, I know that I should not turn my head to the left too much during Mass because there is a young college-age girl who wears very tight and often low cut shirts as well as skirts which I would classify as a bit too short for her. I wish she would not wear that clothing, and I do find it inappropriate. What is interesting though is that she seems to be one of the more prayerful and pious young people in our parish. She is at adoration frequently, almost all parish functions, comes to regular daily mass, and serves as a Lector. In addition, in her defense, she is a very tall girl (probably 6 feet) who is also slender in build but with a large chest. I would imagine it is not easy for her to find clothing appropriate for her age, that actually fits.
Bottom line? The old adage of not being able to judge a book by its cover holds true more often than not. In addition, many of us, including myself, could stand to pay a little less attention to what others are wearing or how they are sitting at Mass and a little more attention to God.
Having said all of that. I certainly prefer a beautiful and reverential Mass, though I am more spiritually fulfilled by the OF rather than the EF, and am not willing to compromise on teaching the Truth of the Faith.
Why we are having this conversation in a thread about the SSPX and why it always seems to turn into this when there are already plenty of threads about how to dress or act at Mass, I am not sure; but here we are again, so those are my thoughts.
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CesarAugustus
Guest
I would like to see more modesty in Parishes, but that doesn’t necessarily means that people has do wears stylish or elegant clothing. Just non vulgar, scandalous, immodest outfits. Some of us live in very strange places… yes I’m surprised too when I read about your Orthodox Oasis Dioceses, so maybe is from lack of exposition to such environments?
I have a very good article about that but is in Spanish.
Blessings!
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Melchior_1
Guest
You’re assuming that the Pope was unaware of the changes made to the preamble, and also assuming it wasn’t Benedict who authorized the changes.
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giuseppeTO
Guest
Yes, that is my assumption.
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ByzCathCantor
Guest
Such an accusation should be substantiated in general and most especially here on this forum.
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curlycool89
Guest
And this post violates the rules that moderator Thomas Casey set back in post #62.
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Melchior_1
Guest
No different than thinking that it’s a giant conspiracy and the head of the CDF is out to attack the SSPX. My suggestion actually makes more sense in the context of their roles and friendship.
Maybe it’s his connection with OCP that has “everyone” worried.
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Moore11
Guest
Brother JR,
Some of us live in very chaotic Dioceses. (I’m in South America). Lack of Orthodoxy and Orthopraxis, strange Liturgies, heretical Priests in the media (and many Parishes, bad Catechesis…
Is in this forum where I read about “Orthodox Oasis” Dioceses.
I’m not ignoring the work of some Religious Communities here, but the situation isn’t very good.
Maybe the people that feel in a similar way that the one you described face similar (if not worse) situations. Obviously if they think the SSPX are the only faithful Catholics is exagerated, but when they see that their Chapels are only of the few places when they can heard sound doctrine, that creates a powerful impression on them.
Blessings!
I have posted numerous times about this very thing. Those who are lucky enough to live in places where there is orthodoxy just dont seem to grasp how bad it is in many places I have been. I have lived in the diocese of Seattle, Montana, Portland, and Boise and I can assure you that it is pretty hard to find a Mass that does not have some sort of modern invention, usually by the laity. A full on rock band singing the Christian rock top 20 at Mass, Across the isle hand holding, poor chatechisis, liberal agendas, Homilies calling for gay marriage, priests telling parishioners that a good Catholic should vote for Obama, and the worst of all is the suppression and exclusion of anyone with a traditionalist lean. The MP was looked at with joy but has been suppressed in my current diocese. There are 8 parishes in my vicinity, not one is allowed to have a TLM. There are priests who specifically ask to do it and are told no. The MP Mass is once a month 5 hours and hundreds of miles away from any major population center. The reason we are given for this is that if they have a TLM then it will cause confusion and division in the cookie cutter parishes we all have. However there are masses in just my parish in the following languages. English, Polish, Basque, Spanish, Portuguese. Not to mention a mass specifically targeted at an agegroup, a seven year age group, teens. But Latin would apparently divide us. If you are a 13 year old Polish person you are covered!.There is an SSPX parish 30 minutes from my house. I Dont go out of obedience to our Bishop who, in the diocese newspaper, instructed everyone that they CANNOT go to it and it is not a Catholic Mass. While I disagree with all of this I must be obedient. That is our job, that is what I wish the SSPX would grasp. If the SSPX were regularized it would absolutely transform our diocese. We have several SSPX chapels and a rich liberal power structure in our city that kind of runs things. Instead, I will go and listen to “David Crowder Band” songs for communion. ( I like DCB just not for Mass) I will sit there and pray through homilies by deacons and priests that extol the virtues of being open minded and progressive. Hoping and praying that someday I would hear a homily about Abortion, Homosexual marriage, and our Catholic identity.
BrotherJR, Pray for those of us who long for the spiritual drinks that quench the thirsts in our desert diocese.
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