SSPX Confirmation

[SamDash]

I find this entire discussion troubling.

The SSPX is a schismatic group. Their sacraments may be valid, but they are certainly illicit.

Certainly, Catholics should be discouraged in no uncertain terms from participating in these illicit sacraments.

If a Catholic asked me if he should take Communion and go to Confession at the Greek Orthodox church in town, should I respond, “Well, their sacraments are valid,” or ,“No, go to a Catholic church.”?

While the priests of the Society of St. Pius X are validly ordained, they are also suspended a divinis, that is they are forbidden by the Church from celebrating the Mass and the sacraments because of their illicit (or illegal) ordination to the diaconate and the priesthood without proper incardination (cf. canon 265). In the strict sense there are no “lay members” of the Society of St. Pius X, only those who frequent their Masses and receive the sacraments from them.

While it is true that participation in the Mass at the chapels of the Society of St. Pius X does not of itself constitute “formal adherence to the schism”, such adherence can come about over a period of time as one slowly imbibes a schismatic mentality which separates itself from the teaching of the Supreme Pontiff and the entire Catholic Church classically exemplified in A Rome and Econe Handbook which states in response to question 14 that the SSPX defends the traditional catechisms and therefore the Old Mass, and so attacks the Novus Ordo, the Second Vatican Council and the New Catechism, all of which more or less undermine our unchangeable Catholic faith.

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CEDSSPX2.HTM

 

[Icarus210]

I was confirmed by Bishop Williamson.

One of the most important days of my life… after 3 years of catechism and soul searching by an old anglican.

For me I had no idea that their were two catholic churches ie, traditional and post-concilliar which was defined by a cardinal in Rome around 1970 written in a letter to the Archbishop.

We only get a visit from a visit once a year in Australia so its one of the highlights of our year. Each year the numbers are growing for confirmations which is a blessing for the whole church.

We pray for the pope in EVERY mass.

I KNOW i am a catholic…

Iccy

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I was confirmed by Bishop Williamson.

One of the most important days of my life… after 3 years of catechism and soul searching by an old anglican.

For me I had no idea that their were two catholic churches ie, traditional and post-concilliar which was defined by a cardinal in Rome around 1970 written in a letter to the Archbishop.

There isn’t two Catholic Churches. There is just one Church of Christ and this is found in communion with the Pope… The others are pretenders and schismatics.

As I said before, protestantism is alive and well today.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I find this entire discussion troubling.

The SSPX is a schismatic group. Their sacraments may be valid, but they are certainly illicit.

Not all of their sacraments are valid. Marriage and Confession require jurisdiction for validity. So those two are invalid. Also the annullments they grant are not worth anything.

 

[gorman64]

Not all of their sacraments are valid. Marriage and Confession require jurisdiction for validity. So those two are invalid. Also the annullments they grant are not worth anything.

Dear David,

I see you’re still at it…again, are you a canon lawyer? Do you possess any authority to be making such claims?

There is something called Divine Law…and the Church supplies jurisdiction in cases of need. It’s a fact. If you knew anything about canon Law…which is human ecclesiastical law…and the principles used to interpret that law…you might realise that Divine law obliges traditional Catholic priests and bishops to administer the sacraments to the faithful and that same divine law also provides legitimate deputation and apostolic mission for their apostolate.

Gorman

 

[bear06]

Dear David,

I see you’re still at it…again, are you a canon lawyer? Do you possess any authority to be making such claims?

There is something called Divine Law…and the Church supplies jurisdiction in cases of need. It’s a fact. If you knew anything about canon Law…which is human ecclesiastical law…and the principles used to interpret that law…you might realise that Divine law obliges traditional Catholic priests and bishops to administer the sacraments to the faithful and that same divine law also provides legitimate deputation and apostolic mission for their apostolate.

Gorman

The Church has already said that the marriages and confessions are not valid save for confessions in danger of death where emergency faculties are automatically granted. David is not disputing this.

You and I are not the arbiters of Divine law. It is the Pope and those who he has charged to do so.

 

[TraditionalCath]

I was confirmed by an SSPX priest.

I was advised to make a Profession of Faith and was well, though there is some talk of a conditional Confirmation, and quite frankly I am going to request one.

Being a double convert, there is always the thought of authority, who has it, who doesn’t. I prefer to be overly cautious rather than find myself in a bind later. Besides, I can’t get the chapel to get me proof of my confirmation making things doubly hard.

people who are the laity in the SSPX do not usually get confirmed by a priest. its usually the bishop who does it. it must have been an extraordinary confirmation for a priest to do it. also, the SSPX gives out certificates of people who have been confirmed. they always do. they would never deny you your certificate.

 

[gorman64]

The Church has already said that the marriages and confessions are not valid save for confessions in danger of death where emergency faculties are automatically granted. David is not disputing this.

You and I are not the arbiters of Divine law. It is the Pope and those who he has charged to do so.

Bear,

I think you’re wrong here. Do you have some theological source to back this up?

Gorman

 

[TraditionalCath]

I was confirmed by Bishop Williamson.

One of the most important days of my life… after 3 years of catechism and soul searching by an old anglican.

For me I had no idea that their were two catholic churches ie, traditional and post-concilliar which was defined by a cardinal in Rome around 1970 written in a letter to the Archbishop.

We only get a visit from a visit once a year in Australia so its one of the highlights of our year. Each year the numbers are growing for confirmations which is a blessing for the whole church.

We pray for the pope in EVERY mass.

I KNOW i am a catholic…

Iccy

There is only one Catholic Church not 2. The SSPX is still part of the church just not in communion with Rome. that is all.

 

[TraditionalCath]

Hmmm…I’ll have to search for that post again. I can’t remember if they were confirmed by a priest or not. I thought some have made the claims that the SSPX doesn’t have their priests do confirmations.

that is correct. the SSPX priests do not confirm the laity. the bishops do.

 

[bear06]

Bear,

I think you’re wrong here. Do you have some theological source to back this up?

Gorman

I’ll look for more later for you but here’s from one of my favorite sources, the CE:

The Catholic Church by virtue of the commission given to her by Christ is the Divinely constituted interpreter of the Divine Law of both the Old and the New Testament

 

[gorman64]

I’ll look for more later for you but here’s from one of my favorite sources, the CE:

Bear,

And what does divine law say (as it was interpreted and that interpretation established by the Church) about the sacraments and when and how they must be administered? Remember, I’m not asking you what human ecclesiastical law (canon law) says…but what does the divine law say?

Check your CE.

Gorman

 

[Jean_Anthony]

If you wish to discuss side issues, please start new threads. Please don’t hijack the thread. Thank you.

 

[Icarus210]

Just to expand, I dont think there are 2 catholic churches, that statement came from Rome, not SSPX. As in the postconcilliar church is different to the pre concilliar.

Hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

Iccy