SSPX Could Return This Week - Agreement With Rome Near

[I_Believe]

And I cannot thank Archbishop Lefebvre because he rebelled and disobeyed. We don’t call that heroism, we call that infidelity.

Could we not throw the bishops who are ignoring and in some cases, blocking, the SC of Pope BXVI, into this category of disobedience ?

Cardinal Hoyos goes to a Cathedral in England, prays the TLM, and not one bishop shows up. Would it be safe to say that this is blatant disrespect ?

How about Our Holy Father’s request that the bishops advise him in three years, how things are going with the TLM in their jurisdiction ? What will these disobedient bishops do ? Ignore the request ? Lie to him and tell him there is no interest ?

The writing is on the wall. There are two distinct mindsets in the Church today. They conflict. One sees a need to shelter the flock from this sick, immoral society we live in, and the other wants to adapt to it.

Sunday, at the NO I attended, during the general intercessions, one of them was “that our leaders in Rome find ways to meet the needs of society”.

There was a time, when we may have asked that " our leaders in Rome find ways to hold fast to Tradition in the face of a society that becomes more immoral with each passing day".

Kyrie, eleison

 

[LilyM]

Ask St. Joan of Arc. The archbishop, while not canonized, I do hope is in Heaven and I’m sure he’s hand is interceding for us. Afterall, if Brother Roger is in Heaven according to this pope (not through a declaration of canonization though), why not Archbishop Lefebvre?

Oh spare me. With you to tell us who’s in heaven what need have we of a Holy Father at all?

I don’t believe Benedict has ever said Brother Roger is in heaven, or anything like. That’s exactly what canonisation is about and there’s no other way to defnitively say so. We simply don’t know, and with him never being able to go through the canonisation process we never will. And I dont believe Benedict has ever pretended that he does know

 

[rpp]

All bickering oni this thread aside, I hope the rumors about the bickering between SSPX and the Holy See being put aside are true.

Division is always harmful. Unity is always beneficial.

As for the details, I will wait and see, I will not speculate.

 

[PrayforMallory]

Amen, and full unity with at least 1,000,000 people is undoubtedly beneficial, especially when they hold so strongly to Catholic moral teaching!

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

My Aunt and Uncle just visited me this weekend. They are both in the SSPX. They stayed only for two days, they could hardly stand to talk to us, let alone look at us because we are so liberal. In most circles, we are extremely conservative, but compared to them we are flaming liberals.
I mean, we tried to wear more conservative clothing when they were here, like we didn’t wear shorts, even though the weather is over 100 degrees here in Vegas, we girls wore longer skirts to mass, we made sure that we made the local hybrid mass (they went to the SSPX mass) we didn’t bring up religion, we were more than kind, but they hardly said anything to us.
They are my mother’s siblings, yet they can hardly stand to be around her simply because she and her husband and children go to the Novus Ordo mass. They can hardly talk to her because of it. They can hardly talk to their nieces and nephews because we go to the NO mass, and when they do talk to us it is about modesty and morals. Well, I am the most conservative girl my age who I have ever met who is not in the SSPX. Just because I wear pants and shorts, and play sports, and am strong willed, and go to the NO mass, they think I am going to hell! It is sad, horribly sad.
Whenever I am away from them, I forget, and I begin to hope that someday, in my lifetime, they will return to the Church, but then when I see them and I see the intense dislike for their own sister, I realize that it would take a miracle beyond anything seen for hundreds of years for the SSPX to return to the Church. I keep praying, but news such as the news that started this thread, that does not give me hope, no, I have very little hope, I have only enough hope to keep praying.
To me, the SSPX is worse than the protestants, at least the protestants do not call themselves Catholic, and at least they do not lie and say they accept the pope when they don’t. The SSPX is worse for the Church than any protestant religion ever was because instead of fighting for the Church from within, the stradle the walls and help to destroy the Church both from within and from without. The trads in the Church are fed up with the liberal bishops, so they give in to their weaknesses and leave the Church that Christ started and join the group that separated themselves from the fullness of the truth, so the SSPX is stealing away the cream of the crop from the Church. And they are also, keeping many people who would otherwise be out helping the Church to recover from the bad bishops and priests, away from the Church, so the Church which is finally starting to build itself back up, is having trouble finding the right people to do the work in the parishes.
Most people that I meet in the NO, don’t know very much about their faith, but we don’t have anyone to teach them, the only people willing to do the job are the liberals who know even less than the students. The people who gave up the good fight should instead be in the Church fighting to restore the beauty that was almost forgotten before it is lost.
At my NO parish, the priest is trying to learn the TLM, but he is the vicar of Las Vegas, he is also a cannon lawyer, and since one of the judges for the Church (I can’t remember the exact title) had a heart attack, my priest is filling in for that job, he is also the pastor of a parish with 10,000 member families, and is in charge of the school attached to that parish. He only has one full time other priest to help him with the parish. He has so little time to sit and learn the Latin, and he is the type that would do it right if he does do it, so it will take him a while.
This is the kind of battle that is being fought! We need the trads to join together and help these lone priests, and help from within, not attack from without.
Sorry for being so long.

I think this post is fantastic. It says everything I’ve felt or suspected about the SSPX. I am sorry to hear that about your family: I’ve seen/heard of similar things in other families.

The time has come for the sheep to be separated from the goats. I hope that, after this weekend, Catholics will at least know where they stand.

 

[childofmary1143]

My Aunt and Uncle just visited me this weekend. They are both in the SSPX. They stayed only for two days, they could hardly stand to talk to us, let alone look at us because we are so liberal. In most circles, we are extremely conservative, but compared to them we are flaming liberals.
I mean, we tried to wear more conservative clothing when they were here, like we didn’t wear shorts, even though the weather is over 100 degrees here in Vegas, we girls wore longer skirts to mass, we made sure that we made the local hybrid mass (they went to the SSPX mass) we didn’t bring up religion, we were more than kind, but they hardly said anything to us.
They are my mother’s siblings, yet they can hardly stand to be around her simply because she and her husband and children go to the Novus Ordo mass. They can hardly talk to her because of it. They can hardly talk to their nieces and nephews because we go to the NO mass, and when they do talk to us it is about modesty and morals. Well, I am the most conservative girl my age who I have ever met who is not in the SSPX. Just because I wear pants and shorts, and play sports, and am strong willed, and go to the NO mass, they think I am going to hell! It is sad, horribly sad.
Whenever I am away from them, I forget, and I begin to hope that someday, in my lifetime, they will return to the Church, but then when I see them and I see the intense dislike for their own sister, I realize that it would take a miracle beyond anything seen for hundreds of years for the SSPX to return to the Church. I keep praying, but news such as the news that started this thread, that does not give me hope, no, I have very little hope, I have only enough hope to keep praying.
To me, the SSPX is worse than the protestants, at least the protestants do not call themselves Catholic, and at least they do not lie and say they accept the pope when they don’t. The SSPX is worse for the Church than any protestant religion ever was because instead of fighting for the Church from within, the stradle the walls and help to destroy the Church both from within and from without. The trads in the Church are fed up with the liberal bishops, so they give in to their weaknesses and leave the Church that Christ started and join the group that separated themselves from the fullness of the truth, so the SSPX is stealing away the cream of the crop from the Church. And they are also, keeping many people who would otherwise be out helping the Church to recover from the bad bishops and priests, away from the Church, so the Church which is finally starting to build itself back up, is having trouble finding the right people to do the work in the parishes.
Most people that I meet in the NO, don’t know very much about their faith, but we don’t have anyone to teach them, the only people willing to do the job are the liberals who know even less than the students. The people who gave up the good fight should instead be in the Church fighting to restore the beauty that was almost forgotten before it is lost.
At my NO parish, the priest is trying to learn the TLM, but he is the vicar of Las Vegas, he is also a cannon lawyer, and since one of the judges for the Church (I can’t remember the exact title) had a heart attack, my priest is filling in for that job, he is also the pastor of a parish with 10,000 member families, and is in charge of the school attached to that parish. He only has one full time other priest to help him with the parish. He has so little time to sit and learn the Latin, and he is the type that would do it right if he does do it, so it will take him a while.
This is the kind of battle that is being fought! We need the trads to join together and help these lone priests, and help from within, not attack from without.
Sorry for being so long.

I am sorry that those SSPX people are not living a true Catholic lifestyle as their self righteousness is shocking.

However, I must say that to make sweeping generalizations, do nothing but increase the hostility between the two camps.

Also I am sure that some Catholics who are disgusted with the NO hierarchy due to Priest Abuse scandal share the same beliefs as you towards them.

Which also begs me to ask everyone here: Has any SSPX Bishop or Priest being accused of sexual abuse?

 

[Joannm]

Just a point of fact following the poster from Las Vegas’ comment about her pastor. If he is a canon lawyer he speaks Latin, for canon lawyers must know Latin as that is how the code is written. Also Latin is required for most theological PhD programs and for all STL and STD programs, so any priest with advanced degrees in any area of theology should speak and understand, or at the very least be able to read Latin.

BTW I truly feel sorry for the way she was treated by her relatives. No matter what they call themselves they were not acting very Christian.

 

[peregrinus_WA]

My Aunt and Uncle just visited me this weekend. They are both in the SSPX. They stayed only for two days, they could hardly stand to talk to us, let alone look at us because we are so liberal. In most circles, we are extremely conservative, but compared to them we are flaming liberals.
I mean, we tried to wear more conservative clothing when they were here, like we didn’t wear shorts, even though the weather is over 100 degrees here in Vegas, we girls wore longer skirts to mass, we made sure that we made the local hybrid mass (they went to the SSPX mass) we didn’t bring up religion, we were more than kind, but they hardly said anything to us.
They are my mother’s siblings, yet they can hardly stand to be around her simply because she and her husband and children go to the Novus Ordo mass. They can hardly talk to her because of it. They can hardly talk to their nieces and nephews because we go to the NO mass, and when they do talk to us it is about modesty and morals. Well, I am the most conservative girl my age who I have ever met who is not in the SSPX. Just because I wear pants and shorts, and play sports, and am strong willed, and go to the NO mass, they think I am going to hell! It is sad, horribly sad.
Whenever I am away from them, I forget, and I begin to hope that someday, in my lifetime, they will return to the Church, but then when I see them and I see the intense dislike for their own sister, I realize that it would take a miracle beyond anything seen for hundreds of years for the SSPX to return to the Church. I keep praying, but news such as the news that started this thread, that does not give me hope, no, I have very little hope, I have only enough hope to keep praying.
To me, the SSPX is worse than the protestants, at least the protestants do not call themselves Catholic, and at least they do not lie and say they accept the pope when they don’t. The SSPX is worse for the Church than any protestant religion ever was because instead of fighting for the Church from within, the stradle the walls and help to destroy the Church both from within and from without. The trads in the Church are fed up with the liberal bishops, so they give in to their weaknesses and leave the Church that Christ started and join the group that separated themselves from the fullness of the truth, so the SSPX is stealing away the cream of the crop from the Church. And they are also, keeping many people who would otherwise be out helping the Church to recover from the bad bishops and priests, away from the Church, so the Church which is finally starting to build itself back up, is having trouble finding the right people to do the work in the parishes.
Most people that I meet in the NO, don’t know very much about their faith, but we don’t have anyone to teach them, the only people willing to do the job are the liberals who know even less than the students. The people who gave up the good fight should instead be in the Church fighting to restore the beauty that was almost forgotten before it is lost.
At my NO parish, the priest is trying to learn the TLM, but he is the vicar of Las Vegas, he is also a cannon lawyer, and since one of the judges for the Church (I can’t remember the exact title) had a heart attack, my priest is filling in for that job, he is also the pastor of a parish with 10,000 member families, and is in charge of the school attached to that parish. He only has one full time other priest to help him with the parish. He has so little time to sit and learn the Latin, and he is the type that would do it right if he does do it, so it will take him a while.
This is the kind of battle that is being fought! We need the trads to join together and help these lone priests, and help from within, not attack from without.
Sorry for being so long.

I have encountered this attitude at my own parish. We have both forms of the Mass. I made the mistake of going to the “Social” after the 9:30 EF Mass since I wanted to hit the Shrine giftshop. One of the EF goes literally called the OF Mass “protestant”. It was not the first time I have encountered this with certain members of the parish.

I do not go to the EF Mass not because I do not like it. I do like it although I prefer the Low Mass to the High Mass (our pastor tends to go overboard and turn the High Mass into a spectacle). I just do not like the people associated with it.

Right now, there are only 3 parishes that I know that offer the EF Mass regularly in the Archdiocese. The closest is 20 miles from me.

 

[peregrinus_WA]

Now. As for the SSPX. I do hope it does happen, but I a doubtful that all would come back. I see at least one that would most likely spit off.

 

[michaeldaniels]

What about St. Joan of Arc? She was burned at the stake for being a heretic…then later The Church made her a Saint

I hope it works out.

I’m curious on one thing though. One of the things SSPX wanted was the lifting of the the excommunions. In the case of Lefebvre what difference would it make. If someone has been excommunicated and they do not repent before death then they will go to Hell. Lifting the excommunication would not change that. He can’t move from Hell to Heaven.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Well…if you believe Christ’s words to Peter, whatever The Church binds on Earth is bound in Heaven, and whatever The Church Church looses on Earth is loosed in Heaven…also, She has the power to forgive and retain sins…Like I stated earlier…is St. Joan of Arc in Heaven or Hell? She was burned as a heretic, and then 24 years later, The Pope reopened the case and declared her a Martyr…not a heretic. Then she was canonized in 1920. This is just one example of The Church changing its mind…so you tell me, is she in Heaven or in Hell?

That’s not what I said.
If a person is excommunicated they are in a state of mortal sin. Anyone who dies in a state of unrepented mortal sin goes to Hell.

 

[michaeldaniels]

The changes have already been approved…it is not a matter of if, but when…they are just preparing for the proper time to assimilate those changes.

If the official change comes down I will be the first to embrace it, but to question the validity of the Pauline Mass? No freaking way.

 

[dove51]

I really, really hope this all comes together. I hope the SSPX can come back and still stand for tradition, and we can all be one, like Jesus wanted. :grouphug:

 

[Our_Refuge]

That’s not what I said.
If a person is excommunicated they are in a state of mortal sin. Anyone who dies in a state of unrepented mortal sin goes to Hell.

Just because someone is excommunicated doesn’t mean that it is certain that they go to hell. To say that Archbisop Levebvre is in hell is unfounded.

IgnatiusInsight.com: And the most common misperceptions?

Peters: I’d say there are two, maybe three.

First, there is the idea that excommunication kicks one out of the Church. That is not right. … Similarly,** an excommunicated person is still a member of the Church**, but he or she has lost certain key rights attached to Church membership and is cut off from many of the activities and benefits of the Church.

The second misconception is that people who die excommunicated go to hell. Maybe they do, and maybe they don’t, but we don’t know with certainty either way. In any case, the Church does not claim to exercise jurisdiction over the dead, and one’s final fate is determined by God based on the life one leads. Of course, appearing before God for judgment in the state of excommunication from His Church on earth is not a good thing.
ignatiusinsight.com/features2006/edpeters_excommun_nov06.asp

 

[thistle]

Just because someone is excommunicated doesn’t mean that it is certain that they go to hell. To say that Archbisop Levebvre is in hell is unfounded.

Why don’t you read my posts carefully. I did not say he was in Hell. In fact my first post was a question. For all I know Levebvre might have confessed, repented and been reconciled to the Church before he died and whether something like that would be made public I don’t know.

My point is that by definition anyone who is excommunicated is in a state of mortal sin and if they died unrepented in that state they go to Hell.
In the case of Levevbre he was justly excommunicated. In the case of Joan of Arc she was unjustly excommunicated (maybe that invalidates it - I don’t know) and in fact died for her faith so I believe she is in Heaven.

I forgot. You also quoted In any case, “the Church does not claim to exercise jurisdiction over the dead, and one’s final fate is determined by God based on the life one leads”.

Actually your final fate is determined by the state of your soul at death. If you die in a state of mortal sin (no matter how good a life you have led up to then or how many good works you have done) and if you die in a state of grace you are saved. God knows the state of your soul at death. You don’t get the chance to stand before him and try to argue your case to be saved.

 

[ethelzguy]

Now. As for the SSPX. I do hope it does happen, but I a doubtful that all would come back. I see at least one that would most likely spit off.

If the postings here, of the SSPX supporters are any indication, I can’t imagine them all following, lock-step “back into Communion with Rome”. There is too much hatred there.

 

[laudamus_te]

My Aunt and Uncle just visited me this weekend. They are both in the SSPX. They stayed only for two days, they could hardly stand to talk to us, let alone look at us because we are so liberal. In most circles, we are extremely conservative, but compared to them we are flaming liberals.
I mean, we tried to wear more conservative clothing when they were here, like we didn’t wear shorts, even though the weather is over 100 degrees here in Vegas, we girls wore longer skirts to mass, we made sure that we made the local hybrid mass (they went to the SSPX mass) we didn’t bring up religion, we were more than kind, but they hardly said anything to us.
They are my mother’s siblings, yet they can hardly stand to be around her simply because she and her husband and children go to the Novus Ordo mass. They can hardly talk to her because of it. They can hardly talk to their nieces and nephews because we go to the NO mass, and when they do talk to us it is about modesty and morals. Well, I am the most conservative girl my age who I have ever met who is not in the SSPX. Just because I wear pants and shorts, and play sports, and am strong willed, and go to the NO mass, they think I am going to hell! It is sad, horribly sad.
Whenever I am away from them, I forget, and I begin to hope that someday, in my lifetime, they will return to the Church, but then when I see them and I see the intense dislike for their own sister, I realize that it would take a miracle beyond anything seen for hundreds of years for the SSPX to return to the Church. I keep praying, but news such as the news that started this thread, that does not give me hope, no, I have very little hope, I have only enough hope to keep praying.
To me, the SSPX is worse than the protestants, at least the protestants do not call themselves Catholic, and at least they do not lie and say they accept the pope when they don’t. The SSPX is worse for the Church than any protestant religion ever was because instead of fighting for the Church from within, the stradle the walls and help to destroy the Church both from within and from without. The trads in the Church are fed up with the liberal bishops, so they give in to their weaknesses and leave the Church that Christ started and join the group that separated themselves from the fullness of the truth, so the SSPX is stealing away the cream of the crop from the Church. And they are also, keeping many people who would otherwise be out helping the Church to recover from the bad bishops and priests, away from the Church, so the Church which is finally starting to build itself back up, is having trouble finding the right people to do the work in the parishes.
Most people that I meet in the NO, don’t know very much about their faith, but we don’t have anyone to teach them, the only people willing to do the job are the liberals who know even less than the students. The people who gave up the good fight should instead be in the Church fighting to restore the beauty that was almost forgotten before it is lost.
At my NO parish, the priest is trying to learn the TLM, but he is the vicar of Las Vegas, he is also a cannon lawyer, and since one of the judges for the Church (I can’t remember the exact title) had a heart attack, my priest is filling in for that job, he is also the pastor of a parish with 10,000 member families, and is in charge of the school attached to that parish. He only has one full time other priest to help him with the parish. He has so little time to sit and learn the Latin, and he is the type that would do it right if he does do it, so it will take him a while.
This is the kind of battle that is being fought! We need the trads to join together and help these lone priests, and help from within, not attack from without.
Sorry for being so long.

Margarite, you are young and you see this through the eyes of one loyal to her parents. That is normal and it is commendable to have such loyalty. But your words, particularly about the SSPX being “worse than the Protestants,” betray a prejudice also. I’m sure your relatives can sense it quite well.

There are two sides to every situation like this, and it doesn’t really advance unity to air such “dirty laundry” with the public, particularly when the other party cannot respond.

 

[Cat]

My Aunt and Uncle just visited me this weekend. They are both in the SSPX. They stayed only for two days, they could hardly stand to talk to us, let alone look at us because we are so liberal. In most circles, we are extremely conservative, but compared to them we are flaming liberals.
I mean, we tried to wear more conservative clothing when they were here, like we didn’t wear shorts, even though the weather is over 100 degrees here in Vegas, we girls wore longer skirts to mass, we made sure that we made the local hybrid mass (they went to the SSPX mass) we didn’t bring up religion, we were more than kind, but they hardly said anything to us.
They are my mother’s siblings, yet they can hardly stand to be around her simply because she and her husband and children go to the Novus Ordo mass. They can hardly talk to her because of it. They can hardly talk to their nieces and nephews because we go to the NO mass, and when they do talk to us it is about modesty and morals. Well, I am the most conservative girl my age who I have ever met who is not in the SSPX. Just because I wear pants and shorts, and play sports, and am strong willed, and go to the NO mass, they think I am going to hell! It is sad, horribly sad.
Whenever I am away from them, I forget, and I begin to hope that someday, in my lifetime, they will return to the Church, but then when I see them and I see the intense dislike for their own sister, I realize that it would take a miracle beyond anything seen for hundreds of years for the SSPX to return to the Church. I keep praying, but news such as the news that started this thread, that does not give me hope, no, I have very little hope, I have only enough hope to keep praying.
To me, the SSPX is worse than the protestants, at least the protestants do not call themselves Catholic, and at least they do not lie and say they accept the pope when they don’t. The SSPX is worse for the Church than any protestant religion ever was because instead of fighting for the Church from within, the stradle the walls and help to destroy the Church both from within and from without. The trads in the Church are fed up with the liberal bishops, so they give in to their weaknesses and leave the Church that Christ started and join the group that separated themselves from the fullness of the truth, so the SSPX is stealing away the cream of the crop from the Church. And they are also, keeping many people who would otherwise be out helping the Church to recover from the bad bishops and priests, away from the Church, so the Church which is finally starting to build itself back up, is having trouble finding the right people to do the work in the parishes.
Most people that I meet in the NO, don’t know very much about their faith, but we don’t have anyone to teach them, the only people willing to do the job are the liberals who know even less than the students. The people who gave up the good fight should instead be in the Church fighting to restore the beauty that was almost forgotten before it is lost.
At my NO parish, the priest is trying to learn the TLM, but he is the vicar of Las Vegas, he is also a cannon lawyer, and since one of the judges for the Church (I can’t remember the exact title) had a heart attack, my priest is filling in for that job, he is also the pastor of a parish with 10,000 member families, and is in charge of the school attached to that parish. He only has one full time other priest to help him with the parish. He has so little time to sit and learn the Latin, and he is the type that would do it right if he does do it, so it will take him a while.
This is the kind of battle that is being fought! We need the trads to join together and help these lone priests, and help from within, not attack from without.
Sorry for being so long.

“Dirty laundry?!” No, sir, this is a gripping testimony that rings with truth and pathos. Margarite, you should submit this to Catholic periodicals and I hope they will publish your words.

Margarite, don’t listen to the critics. St. Paul tells Timothy “Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith, and purity, show yourself and example of those who believe.” (I Timothy 4: 12).

It sounds like you exemplify this admonition from St. Paul.

I think the critics just don’t want to hear the facts that you are revealing. It’s hard to watch your castle in the air collapse.

I think your observation that many of Catholics who have left should have stayed and catechized is an apt one OTOH, if they were of a mind to leave for the garbage that the SSPX priests teach, then it’s probably best that they left. I would not want to be taught by people who are so willing to leave the Church.

I also think your observation that SSPX is worse than Protestantism is true. A traitor is always more despicable than an ignorant person who doesn’t know any better. Hebrews 6 says “…those who have once tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.”

PrayforMallory, you asked why Margarite and her family attend OF. Read her entire post more thoroughly and your question will be answered.

 

[consumedconvert]

Could we not throw the bishops who are ignoring and in some cases, blocking, the SC of Pope BXVI, into this category of disobedience ?

Any Bishop who disobeys a direct command from the Pope, and indeed any Monk who disobeys a direct command from his Abbot, and every Priest who disobeys a direct command from his Bishop, belong to this category of disobedience, Disobedience is disobedience is disobedience, and if your Superior tells you to tow the line, you disobey just as much whether you run off to the left or to the right.

 

[Our_Refuge]

".

I also think your observation that SSPX is worse than Protestantism is true. .

I think that Protestantism as a religious system is the greatest heresy in the history of the Church. It falsely teaches that one can be saved by faith alone and by scripture alone. It falsely believes in private interpretation of scripture. It falsely teaches once saved always saved and that salvation cannot be lost.

It denies that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ and that the Pope is the successor of Peter. It denies that the Eucharist is the Body and BLood of Christ. It denies that a priest can forgive sin. Some protestants communities deny that Baptist is necessary for salvation.

Most Protestant communities teach that artificial birth control is not contrary to the law of God and that remarriage is not adultery.

And you say that the SSPX is worse than Protestantism?