SSPX Could Return This Week - Agreement With Rome Near

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Lets pray for unity and stop bickering.

I know some SSPX who are indeed bitter, this is understandable. If you see so much sickness in the Church you love, it can make you disgusted and sometimes pretty grumpy. I know of some very nice good SSPX also. What their belief stand for is good and holy, as all it is, is Catholicism without innovation.

We need them to come back and they need the Church to accept them back as it will be beneficial to both sides.

Of course there are some who don’t want unity they are the ones who hate tradition in the Church and the ones who are so mean and bitter in the SSPX that want to keep complaining.

Regardlesss of the Bad Bishops, Priests and Laity in the Church and the rampant destruction of the faith we need unity and charity to restore the faith and strengthen it. Not bickering, not denial but a recognition of faults on both sides and a unity to seek solutions.

In Christ
Scylla
 
Our_Refuge said:
I think that Protestantism as a religious system is the greatest heresy in the history of the Church. It falsely teaches that one can be saved by faith alone and by scripture alone. It falsely believes in private interpretation of scripture. It falsely teaches once saved always saved and that salvation cannot be lost.

It denies that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ and that the Pope is the successor of Peter. It denies that the Eucharist is the Body and BLood of Christ. It denies that a priest can forgive sin. Some protestants communities deny that Baptist is necessary for salvation.

Most Protestant communities teach that artificial birth control is not contrary to the law of God and that remarriage is not adultery.

And you say that the SSPX is worse than Protestantism?
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Good post, but I doubt it will make much headway. Hatred knows no reason. Sure, there is bitterness among some who support the SSPX. But that is just as equally balanced by bitterness towards them from those who don’t. It is best to ignore the ones who spout hateful speech and pray for them instead.
 
laudamus_te said:
Good post, but I doubt it will make much headway. Hatred knows no reason. Sure, there is bitterness among some who support the SSPX. But that is just as equally balanced by bitterness towards them from those who don’t. It is best to ignore the ones who spout hateful speech and pray for them instead.
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Look at the bright side. The SSPX crowd could then argue their postion here at CAF as “true” Catholics. 👍
 
scylla said:
Lets pray for unity and stop bickering.

I know some SSPX who are indeed bitter, this is understandable. If you see so much sickness in the Church you love, it can make you disgusted and sometimes pretty grumpy. I know of some very nice good SSPX also. What their belief stand for is good and holy, as all it is, is Catholicism without innovation.

We need them to come back and they need the Church to accept them back as it will be beneficial to both sides.

Of course there are some who don’t want unity they are the ones who hate tradition in the Church and the ones who are so mean and bitter in the SSPX that want to keep complaining.

Regardlesss of the Bad Bishops, Priests and Laity in the Church and the rampant destruction of the faith we need unity and charity to restore the faith and strengthen it. Not bickering, not denial but a recognition of faults on both sides and a unity to seek solutions.

In Christ
Scylla
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I agree that people have a reason for grumpiness. But, to be honest with you… I’m not sure that the people who fit that description were *made *that way over time… I think they already were that way and, for some reason, the SSPX is a magnet for them. My personal experiences with members of the SSPX has been pretty consistently the same: they freak me out with their anger and, well, kooky paranoia. I have traditionalist friends who are devout Catholics and would maybe seem a bit “nutty” in their piety to the secular world. But, none of them are angry people. They don’t see plots and conspiracies everywhere. They are happy people who love tradition and reverent liturgy, even if they sometimes worry about the crisis in the Church today, and even if they get frustrated with things in their diocese.
 
HOPEFUL_IN_UK said:
I agree that people have a reason for grumpiness. But, to be honest with you… I’m not sure that the people who fit that description were *made *that way over time… I think they already were that way and, for some reason, the SSPX is a magnet for them. My personal experiences with members of the SSPX has been pretty consistently the same: they freak me out with their anger and, well, kooky paranoia. I have traditionalist friends who are devout Catholics and would maybe seem a bit “nutty” in their piety to the secular world. But, none of them are angry people. They don’t see plots and conspiracies everywhere. They are happy people who love tradition and reverent liturgy, even if they sometimes worry about the crisis in the Church today, and even if they get frustrated with things in their diocese.
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You just described my friends who support the SSPX! :confused:
 
Walking_Home said:
Your bigotry is showing.
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MY bigotry? Where are you coming from with this?

The SSPX folks have been preaching their point of view, while having to defend their “irregular standing”.

If they come into full Communion with Rome, they will be able to preach their point of view without having to defend their “irregular standing”.

Where is the bigotry in that?
 
ethelzguy said:
MY bigotry? Where are you coming from with this?

The SSPX folks have been preaching their point of view, while having to defend their “irregular standing”.

If they come into full Communion with Rome, they will be able to preach their point of view without having to defend their “irregular standing”.

Where is the bigotry in that?
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Ah, come on ethelzguy… don’t be coy. You didn’t say anything about “irregular standing” originally. That’s a far cry from “true Catholic.”
 
Our_Refuge said:
I think that Protestantism as a religious system is the greatest heresy in the history of the Church. It falsely teaches that one can be saved by faith alone and by scripture alone. It falsely believes in private interpretation of scripture. It falsely teaches once saved always saved and that salvation cannot be lost.

It denies that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ and that the Pope is the successor of Peter. It denies that the Eucharist is the Body and BLood of Christ. It denies that a priest can forgive sin. Some protestants communities deny that Baptist is necessary for salvation.

Most Protestant communities teach that artificial birth control is not contrary to the law of God and that remarriage is not adultery.

And you say that the SSPX is worse than Protestantism?
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At the moment in history, yes. Most Protestants are “invincibly ignorant” of any of the teachings you mention in your post. They are to be pitied and evangelized, not condemned as heretics. In fact, the Catholic Church says that people who do not wilfully and with full knowledge make the decision to reject the Catholic Church are not heretics.

I was Protestant for over 40 years, and I can testify that I had NO IDEA what the Catholic Church taught. And interestingly, no Catholic ever asked me if I wanted to know. The only place I learned about what Catholics believe is in a set of Streets and Roads readers that my dad brought home from a rummage sale. I still have those little books, and consider them one of the “tools” that the Lord used to bring me home to the Catholic Church.

SSPX adherents have BEEN Catholics. They have been baptized into the Church, tasted the Lord Himself in Holy Communion, and received the fullness of the Holy Spirit at their Confirmation. They have been privy to all the glories and sufferings of the Church of Jesus Christ Himself, and yet, they have wilfully and with full knowledge rejected all this. I can’t even imagine why someone would reject Jesus’s Church for a “ceremony.”

According to the Catechism, the Protestants are separated brothers and sisters by virtue of their triune baptism, and have a hope of heaven.

But SSPX adherents attend a church who leader has been excommunicated. The Church does not dare to say that he has no chance of heaven, but an excommunication is a serious thing, and those who follow such a leader are taking a dreadful chance with their souls.

Finally, many Protestants do accept Catholics as Christians. Of course there are vicious anti-Catholic Protestants out there, but many Protestants have stood side by side with Catholics protesting abortion and working in pro-life projects, and have learned that Catholics do indeed follow Jesus Christ and consider Him their Lord and Savior.

But SSPX adherents condemn Catholics for their “modernist” ways and insist that many of them are going to hell. They accuse the Church of spreading lies and false teachings, and they insult the Pope by saying that he is promulgating a false and inferior Mass.

So yes, I would argue that SSPX is indeed, the greater heresy. A cancer in my own body is much more devastating than cancer cells on a microscope slide.
 
laudamus_te said:
Ah, come on ethelzguy… don’t be coy. You didn’t say anything about “irregular standing” originally. That’s a far cry from “true Catholic.”
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In what way? If you are in irregular standing, then obviously you aren’t a true Catholic in full Communion with Holy See.

This is starting to sound like some pro-SSPX propaganda. :rolleyes:
 
ethelzguy said:
In what way? If you are in irregular standing, then obviously you aren’t a true Catholic in full Communion with Holy See.

This is starting to sound like some pro-SSPX propaganda. :rolleyes:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3842363#post3842363

Quote=ethelzguy
What I’m saying is, that with scads of churches out there, all preaching that THEIR church is the one true way to Salvation,** how would having priests thundering the same statements from the pulpits change anything? They would sound the same as all the other pulpit thunder.**
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And a person who does not believe the truth of our Faith should be spoken in our churches---- is a “true” Catholic. Seems the more you talk — the more it shows you are immersed in the “Spirit of Vat II”.
 
Moot issue-
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/

Fellay says no:
So, we have no choice, we are not going this way, we are continuing what we have done,
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Is anyone surprised?

At least this time he understands he is excommunicated and is not trying to play word games. Like Feeney, he has found himself outside the Catholic Church.
Certainly, my dear brethren, you expect from me today also a certain update of how things are going with Rome. All these excommunications, or the lifting, or the retraction of the decrees of excommunication, is it coming or not? Frankly, I don’t know. My impression, right now, is that we still can wait for a while, and maybe a good while. And why so?
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Walking_Home said:
And a person who does not believe the truth of our Faith should be spoken in our churches---- is a “true” Catholic. Seems the more you talk — the more it shows you are immersed in the “Spirit of Vat II”.
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Indeed. I now see the true nature of ethelzguy’s “Catholicism.”
 
Our_Refuge said:
I think that Protestantism as a religious system is the greatest heresy in the history of the Church. It falsely teaches that one can be saved by faith alone and by scripture alone. It falsely believes in private interpretation of scripture. It falsely teaches once saved always saved and that salvation cannot be lost.

It denies that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ and that the Pope is the successor of Peter. It denies that the Eucharist is the Body and BLood of Christ. It denies that a priest can forgive sin. Some protestants communities deny that Baptist is necessary for salvation.

Most Protestant communities teach that artificial birth control is not contrary to the law of God and that remarriage is not adultery.

And you say that the SSPX is worse than Protestantism?
Click to expand...
You took that out of context
 
Walking_Home said:
And a person who does not believe the truth of our Faith should be spoken in our churches---- is a “true” Catholic. Seems the more you talk — the more it shows you are immersed in the “Spirit of Vat II”.
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How is a priest declaring that our Church is the only path to Salvation DIFFERENT than what other preachers preach. What is there in such preaching that would cause a listener to choose Catholicism over another denomination (or non-denomination)?

I didn’t say that I “do not believe the truth of our Faith should be spoken in our churches”.

The post was made that implied that if our priests did more of this, then the Catholic Church would be “different” now.

You are putting words in my mouth instead of answering the question.
 
laudamus_te said:
Indeed. I now see the true nature of ethelzguy’s “Catholicism.”
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If you are saying that I do not support the position(s) of the “irregular” SSPX, then yes, you are correct as to the “true nature of my Catholicism”.
 
Let us all remain charitable, and on topic, as we look forward with hope to this reconciliation.
 
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/

Rorate Caeli has the actual five conditions sent from Cardinal Hoyos to the SSPX:
  1. The commitment to a response proportionate to the generosity of the Pope.
  2. The commitment to avoid every public intervention which does not respect the person of the Holy Father and which may be negative to ecclesial charity.
  3. The commitment to avoid the claim to a Magisterium superior to the Holy Father and to not propose the Fraternity in contraposition to the Church.
  4. The commitment to display the will to act honestly in full ecclesial charity and in respect for the authority of the Vicar of Christ.
  5. The commitment to respect the date - fixed for the end of the month of June [2008] - to respond positively. This shall be a condition necessary and demanded as an immediate prepatation for adhesion to achieve full communion.
The SSPX can meet all these conditions, but #3 seems tricky and depends on how it is interpreted. All Popes are bound to the Magisteiurm. Every Pope has to uphold Catholic dogma and the Magisteium. I believe #3 merely means the SSPX should not come up with their own Magisterium, which is ridiculous because the SSPX never claimed their own dogma but upheld Church dogma.
 
saint_rafael said:
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/

Rorate Caeli has the actual five conditions sent from Cardinal Hoyos to the SSPX:
  1. The commitment to a response proportionate to the generosity of the Pope.
  2. The commitment to avoid every public intervention which does not respect the person of the Holy Father and which may be negative to ecclesial charity.
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I do not see how these two are even remotely reflected in Fellay’s response.
In '75, '76, it was already the same problem. Before the suspension of '76, Rome sent an ambassador to the Archbishop who told him, ‘Say with me one New Mass, concelebrate with me one Mass, and everything is fine’. And now, well, they don’t say ‘Say one Mass’, they just say ‘Shut up’.
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