SSPX Could Return This Week - Agreement With Rome Near

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Moot issue-
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/

Fellay says no:
Is anyone surprised?

At least this time he understands he is excommunicated and is not trying to play word games. Like Feeney, he has found himself outside the Catholic Church.
Didn’t most of you guys read past the next item on the blog? pnewton did. In a sermon at a Minnesota Ordination late in June Fellay has refused the Vatican’s offer. He left no doubt that the separation will continue until the Vatican comes around to his way of thinking. That splashes a lot of cold water on everyone’s hopes for a reconciliation.
 
If the SSPX “returns” to the conciliar church, does that mean:

they must regard the novus ordo missae as valid?

that they must be OK with things like clown masses?

that they must allow priests consecrated in the NO church since V2 to say Masses in their chapels?

Will they still be able to be ‘separate’, but in full union with Rome?

Will the FSSP then have no reason to exist anymore?
 
that they must be OK with things like clown masses?
Again the clown mass surfaces. I think we should modify the Hitler/Nazi rule. The first side that mentions clown masses loses.

I think the obvious answer is that of course they do not have to agree to and accept fringe absurdities or abuses. No one does.
 
If the SSPX “returns” to the conciliar church, does that mean:

they must regard the novus ordo missae as valid?
Yes.
that they must be OK with things like clown masses?
No.
that they must allow priests consecrated in the NO church since V2 to say Masses in their chapels?
No, but they may allow such a priest to say the TLM in their churches.
Will they still be able to be ‘separate’, but in full union with Rome?
They’ll be given a personal prelature, like Opus Dei.
Will the FSSP then have no reason to exist anymore?
The FSSP will probably just continue what it’s doing. It exists to fight modernism and promote Tradition within the Church.

They could decide to absorb into the SSPX, but that could be tricky.
 
Let us all remain charitable, and on topic, as we look forward with hope to this reconciliation.
Yes! People are losing themselves in all of this bitterness. When I read the Pope’s conditions, I couldn’t believe how charitable he was being. We cannot deny that the Pope truly wants to heal all of this.

I think the SSPX will accept. Now my friends back home who want the traditional Mass may be able to have it!
 
Thanks for explaining the details…I had not followed the situation with the SSPX for a number of years, so I was not up to date.
 
My Aunt and Uncle just visited me this weekend. They are both in the SSPX. They stayed only for two days, they could hardly stand to talk to us, let alone look at us because we are so liberal. In most circles, we are extremely conservative, but compared to them we are flaming liberals.
I mean, we tried to wear more conservative clothing when they were here, like we didn’t wear shorts, even though the weather is over 100 degrees here in Vegas, we girls wore longer skirts to mass, we made sure that we made the local hybrid mass (they went to the SSPX mass) we didn’t bring up religion, we were more than kind, but they hardly said anything to us.
They are my mother’s siblings, yet they can hardly stand to be around her simply because she and her husband and children go to the Novus Ordo mass. They can hardly talk to her because of it. They can hardly talk to their nieces and nephews because we go to the NO mass, and when they do talk to us it is about modesty and morals. Well, I am the most conservative girl my age who I have ever met who is not in the SSPX. Just because I wear pants and shorts, and play sports, and am strong willed, and go to the NO mass, they think I am going to hell! It is sad, horribly sad.
Whenever I am away from them, I forget, and I begin to hope that someday, in my lifetime, they will return to the Church, but then when I see them and I see the intense dislike for their own sister, I realize that it would take a miracle beyond anything seen for hundreds of years for the SSPX to return to the Church. I keep praying, but news such as the news that started this thread, that does not give me hope, no, I have very little hope, I have only enough hope to keep praying.
To me, the SSPX is worse than the protestants, at least the protestants do not call themselves Catholic, and at least they do not lie and say they accept the pope when they don’t. The SSPX is worse for the Church than any protestant religion ever was because instead of fighting for the Church from within, the stradle the walls and help to destroy the Church both from within and from without. The trads in the Church are fed up with the liberal bishops, so they give in to their weaknesses and leave the Church that Christ started and join the group that separated themselves from the fullness of the truth, so the SSPX is stealing away the cream of the crop from the Church. And they are also, keeping many people who would otherwise be out helping the Church to recover from the bad bishops and priests, away from the Church, so the Church which is finally starting to build itself back up, is having trouble finding the right people to do the work in the parishes.
Most people that I meet in the NO, don’t know very much about their faith, but we don’t have anyone to teach them, the only people willing to do the job are the liberals who know even less than the students. The people who gave up the good fight should instead be in the Church fighting to restore the beauty that was almost forgotten before it is lost.
At my NO parish, the priest is trying to learn the TLM, but he is the vicar of Las Vegas, he is also a cannon lawyer, and since one of the judges for the Church (I can’t remember the exact title) had a heart attack, my priest is filling in for that job, he is also the pastor of a parish with 10,000 member families, and is in charge of the school attached to that parish. He only has one full time other priest to help him with the parish. He has so little time to sit and learn the Latin, and he is the type that would do it right if he does do it, so it will take him a while.
This is the kind of battle that is being fought! We need the trads to join together and help these lone priests, and help from within, not attack from without.
Sorry for being so long.
It’s always been amazing to me how people claim to be the “true” followers of Christ yet there appears to be no love in their hearts. **I agree with you that the SPPX are worse than the protestants. **(Oh Lord, I just opened a can of worms). At least the protestants (of modern times, not Luther’s) are ignorant. You cannot claim to be Catholic and stubbornly refuse to be in union with the Church. (For the Orthodox I’d say it’s a bit of a different story…) I know many are probably absolutely horrified by what I’m saying, but it’s my opinion. I follow the Church, not men. That’s why I stopped being a protestant. I agree that the Church is in a state of liturgical disaster, and I pray constantly about it, but I’m not about to say that the OF (properly celebrated is invalid or even inferior to the EF. The EF is beautiful, but if we really wanted to be faithful to the ancient ways of worship, we’d be singing everything in Greek, receiving the Eucharist in the hand (and taking It home with us to commune throughout the week), and observing public confession.

I went a bit far a-field. My prayers for the unity of the Church.
 
This is so frustrating. I do not see an obstacle for the SSPX. I have tried to understand them better. I subscribed to the Remnant for a while and found such a lack of charity. I find them to be alarmists. Clown Masses are the perfect example. Never in my life have I seen a clown mass. If you speak to the poeple I know in the SSPX you would think it happens every Sunday at the local Parish.

I would really like to see some healing, charity, humility and an effort from the SSPX.

I’ll lift it up in prayer…so frustrating.
 
That’s pretty much all the SSPX is – a prolonged uncharitable attack on the Catholic Church.

Some of the SSPX individuals actually question the validity of the Mass because of the words. What utter arrogance and ignorance! If the official change comes down I will be the first to embrace it, but to question the validity of the Pauline Mass? No freaking way.
What I’ve never understood how it’s ‘schismatic’ that a branch of the Church has continued in the same way it had been going for hundreds of years. I mean, it’s the Mass of All Time, eh? I would think the ones who reject it or change its meaning are the ones in schism. And yeah, they’re right to question the validity of the Novus Ordo, because it fundamentally changes what happens during the Mass, effectively removing all the Catholic from it and turning it into a high Protestant church service. Not near the same thing. Not arrogance and ignorance, but love for the Mass as it should be, love for the Church as it should be.
 
This is so frustrating. I do not see an obstacle for the SSPX. I have tried to understand them better. I subscribed to the Remnant for a while and found such a lack of charity. I find them to be alarmists. Clown Masses are the perfect example. Never in my life have I seen a clown mass. If you speak to the poeple I know in the SSPX you would think it happens every Sunday at the local Parish.

I would really like to see some healing, charity, humility and an effort from the SSPX.

I’ll lift it up in prayer…so frustrating.
I watched a clown mass on YouTube. If you want to see one, go there and type in ‘clown mass’.

I think Catholics born since V2 need to have some understanding for older Catholics who felt betrayed abd traumatized by their own church for “the changes”…but also sympathy for younger Catholics who most likely grew up hearing of the glories of Pre-V2 Catholicism, only to take a look around at their local parish and see how different it became.

They may seem harsh, but its because they feel hurt, betrayed and tossed to the curb. They are angry, and rightfully so, I think.

My aunt was a nun who felt so betrayed by the changes that she shared them with me, her Jewish niece, because at the time (1970s), no one in her own church seemed to care one bit that a woman who always devoted her life to God and her church felt spiritually raped by what had happened.

Remember too, that while you may see them as “not truly Catholic”, they perhaps see you the same way. Its all a matter of perspective.
 
I pray this happens too.

We could really use the SSPX, working in communion with the Holy Father, to help reform the Church. Especially in France and Germany where the SSPX are big.

They could do SO MUCH GOOD, if they would just get over their bitterness, and realize this Pope is on their side.

Praying,

God Bless
 
If the SSPX “returns” to the conciliar church, does that mean:

they must regard the novus ordo missae as valid?

that they must allow priests consecrated in the NO church since V2 to say Masses in their chapels?

Will they still be able to be ‘separate’, but in full union with Rome?

Will the FSSP then have no reason to exist anymore?
Interesting points. Many of which point to this NOT happening.

Heck, the rest of us can’t agree on so much now, what makes us think that the SSPX crowd is going to give in on things that they hold so dear…regardless of what their leadership says?

After all, our Church leadership has allowed many things over the years, yet countless Catholics refuse to accept these things, claiming them to be flawed…

Even if the SSPX leadership declared that they were returning to Rome, there would be plenty of the flock who would refuse.

Personally, I see the SSPX as “Cafeteria Catholicism” at it finest.
 
Clown Masses are the perfect example. Never in my life have I seen a clown mass. If you speak to the people I know in the SSPX you would think it happens every Sunday at the local Parish.
:amen: :blessyou:

Don’t forget the puppets, too :rolleyes:
 
What I’ve never understood how it’s ‘schismatic’ that a branch of the Church has continued in the same way it had been going for hundreds of years. I mean, it’s the Mass of All Time, eh? I would think the ones who reject it or change its meaning are the ones in schism. And yeah, they’re right to question the validity of the Novus Ordo, because it fundamentally changes what happens during the Mass, effectively removing all the Catholic from it and turning it into a high Protestant church service. Not near the same thing. Not arrogance and ignorance, but love for the Mass as it should be, love for the Church as it should be.
Offering the TLM was not “schismatic”.

The event that led to the excommunications was illicit ordinations of 4 bishops by the lat Achbp Fellay.

This is what led to the “irregular situation” as the Vatican describes it.

God Bless
 
I watched a clown mass on YouTube. If you want to see one, go there and type in ‘clown mass’.

I think Catholics born since V2 need to have some understanding for older Catholics who felt betrayed abd traumatized by their own church for “the changes”…but also sympathy for younger Catholics who most likely grew up hearing of the glories of Pre-V2 Catholicism, only to take a look around at their local parish and see how different it became.

They may seem harsh, but its because they feel hurt, betrayed and tossed to the curb. They are angry, and rightfully so, I think.

My aunt was a nun who felt so betrayed by the changes that she shared them with me, her Jewish niece, because at the time (1970s), no one in her own church seemed to care one bit that a woman who always devoted her life to God and her church felt spiritually raped by what had happened.

Remember too, that while you may see them as “not truly Catholic”, they perhaps see you the same way. Its all a matter of perspective.
Sepharad,

I understand the Latin Mass can be a place of refuge from abuse and if you prefer that it’s great. But I don’t think people should abandon the Church because liberal theologians took it upon themselves to misinterpet the council.

The members of the SSPX would have a much more positive effect on the Church as members in full communion than standing on the outside waiting for abuses to happen.

Persepctive is perspective, what’s the truth?
 
Offering the TLM was not “schismatic”.

The event that led to the excommunications was illicit ordinations of 4 bishops by the lat Achbp Fellay.

This is what led to the “irregular situation” as the Vatican describes it.

God Bless
Yes, but in the 1970s (until the advent of the indult mass), Catholics were being told that the Tridentine Mass “was no longer allowed”. That was technically not true, but it did not stop any priests, etc from telling people that.
 
Yes, but in the 1970s (until the advent of the indult mass), Catholics were being told that the Tridentine Mass “was no longer allowed”. That was technically not true, but it did not stop any priests, etc from telling people that.
I keep hearing that, but only at CAF.

I have never heard a priest or bishop state that the old Latin Mass “was no longer allowed”.
 
I keep hearing that, but only at CAF.

I have never heard a priest or bishop state that the old Latin Mass “was no longer allowed”.
Half my family is Catholic, and many of them left the church due to “the changes”…they were often told the Mass was “no longer allowed”. My aunt (who was a nun) was also told this by her Superior. It was not technically true, but it served to tick off a lot of Catholics back then, I do remember that. It was the main reason why the SSPX wad formed, and also other TC groups such as the ORCM and the SSPV.
 
I keep hearing that, but only at CAF.

I have never heard a priest or bishop state that the old Latin Mass “was no longer allowed”.
Read Fr. Normandin’s A pastor left out in the cold. It discusses how the Archdiocese of Montreal persecuted Fr. Normandin for continuing to celebrate the Old Mass.

This happened in many other diocese, especially in Canada.

On that note, I shall leave.
 
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