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JReducation
Guest
Add to this that papolatry is as Protestant a term as Papist and the idea of serving God without a Pope is an equally Protestant concept.
This is not the way to go. This is a terrible mistake.
JR
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This is not the way to go. This is a terrible mistake.
JR
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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
**San Judas [/quote said:
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Timothysis
Guest
Its very simple, really. I am a Catholic. Not a “traditionalist,” not a “modernist,” not a TLM or NO Catholic. I believe in the Church, the Pope, the Bishops, the Mass, Tradition and everything else that has been handed down throughout the centuries.
When I hear a nun saying that birth control and abortion are ok I have a problem. When I hear a priest say homosexuality is ok I have a problem. When I hear Catholic universities and schools teaching things contrary to the faith, then I have a problem.
I also have a problem when bishops presume to do things against Canon Law and explicitly against the will of the Holy Father. I am against priest who possibly border on sin by saying Mass without the permission of a local bishop and against Canon law when their faculties have been removed.
You see, I am opposed to all of those things that are harmful to the Church, whether by those who are in or out of communion with the Holy See.
It is beyond me how anyone could support open defiance against the Pope. And yet, this isn’t anything new. Read any book about the histories of the popes and you’ll see that each and everyone of them had to deal with something that surely had to give them a headache at bedtime. The situation with the sspx is not really serious at all, compared to problems in the past. Either the rift will be healed or they’ll go their own way like other groups in the past (and present) have done. I, personally, would like to see them regularized but I can’t help but think that the “holier than thou” attitude that seems so persistent in the leadership would prove to be a source of nothing but trouble.
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JReducation
Guest
Did you read the conditions under which you can get a declaration of nullity? Those are the conditions accepted by the Church. There are some other strange ones that rarely occur, but the ones that I posted are the most common.
Also, Canon law says that the Church must follow local civil law, unless the Church says otherwise. In the USA you may not get an annulment, until you get a divorce. That’s civil law. Because the State grants the Church license to marry, but it does not recognize the Church’s right to annul marriages.
JR
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bobzills
Guest
Yes. I read the conditions and I read as to how these conditions are being interpreted by the Church tribunals. For a few examples, in the book: : Judging Invalidity ©2002, By Fr. Lawrence G. Wrenn. This book is “Designed as a practical companion to the author’s previous volume, The Invalid Marriage, this resource for tribunals, students and pastoral ministers contains 15 fictional marriage cases. These reflect the basic grounds for marital nullity established in the 1983 Code of Canon Law.”
Reasons for annulment listed in Judging Invalidity ©2002, By Fr. Lawrence G. Wrenn
Working out a couple of hours a day in the gym.
Being described as arrogant and selfish with an “I don’t need anyone else” attitude.
Saving one’s salary in a personal account.
Seeming to be obsessed with one’s body (personal appearance).
Ignoring one’s parents on one occasion when they came for a visit.
Seeing the world as his apple. (Psychiatric expert’s term)
Never being satisfied with a gift given by one’s spouse.
Feeling chronically disenfranchised in one’s (spousal) relationship.
Not achieving the desired companionship and intimacy one wants in marriage.
Suffering abandonment issues over a father who died.
Protecting herself by putting a hard shell around herself.
Suffering from low self-esteem, self-absorption, and a need for attention.
Lacking emphathy and fearing intimacy.
Comparing oneself to others and always finding them happier.
About a month before the wedding he drove his mother to a family reunion, leaving her all alone to make preparations for the wedding.
The psychiatric expert described the respondent as porcupinish. He didn’t want people near him; surprises he liked even less. It was noted in the proceedings, however, that he was in love with another woman.
The petitioner’s mother always resented her. The mother was unreasonably strict and hypercritical.
And how many Catholic couples today are using contraception?
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piouswoman
Guest
And I believe you, Deacon Ed…but if there are unjust excommunications…then what? There already have been. No, I never have seen you say that there just as well be excommunications…but that is you, not any one else. Lost sheep leading the flock astray? Hardly…the ones being led astray are the flock itself…and the shepherd with his own modern mind is mistakenly guiding his flock and does not even realize it. Once again…the pope is not perfect, only God is perfect, hence, he can err…he may not even realize that he is erring, yet he can err…to have it suggested that the mere mention of papolatry is Protestant is almost too much to bear…especially when so much Protestant influence was exercised at the Vatican Council II, and in light of the fact that the New Mass is very agreeable to Protestants…now here I am addressing what JR says below your last post.
I tell you…I am tiring of this fight. I am sick of it all.
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piouswoman
Guest
Then being a Catholic isn’t really all that simple after all, is it?
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catharina
Guest
Who said it was to be simple or easy?
All my life I learned that our landmarks as Catholics are clear. Our Church is the Catholic Church. Our God-given leader is the Holy Father. We who attended Catholic schools were warned against possiblities of divisiveness by the sixth grade - when we began to study the history of Protestantism and the rejection of Papal authority by both Henry VIII and Martin Luther. To see an archbishop defy the will of the Holy Father is an unwelcome burden.
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JReducation
Guest
You got this list from that book? Either the author is crazy or I’m missing something. That’s not what’s in the code or in the commentary of the code.
I have no idea where this author is going. I wish I could comment, but I can’t. All I can say is that the list you have hear is not in the code or its commentaries.
Sorry I can’t be more helpful. Are you sure you’re reading him right? I’m not trying to be offensive. I’m really asking. This sounds like a nutty list if I ever saw one. Or the author is a little of track.
JR
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Jeanette_L
Guest
Being a Catholic is simple. Obedience to the Church, the Pope, the Magisterium. Cannot separate them, they come as a unit. If you claim to be in allegiance with one but reject any of the other, you only fool yourself into thinking you are in allegience with any.
Popolatry.
Bishopolatry? :ehh:
Better to follow the Pope, to be loyal to him, than follow a Bishop who stands practically alone, taking unto himself sole authority of interpretation and proclamation that has not been given him from above, leading many many many into error right along with him. Disobedience is not of God.
I will follow the Pope, I will be loyal to him. This is who we have been given by God to lead us, our shephard, Vicar of Christ. If we don’t believe this, then we are not in our hearts and minds, truly Catholic. We have gone astray and need to return to hear the voice of our shephard.
Popolatry.
Bishopolatry? :ehh:Better to follow the Pope, to be loyal to him, than follow a Bishop who stands practically alone, taking unto himself sole authority of interpretation and proclamation that has not been given him from above, leading many many many into error right along with him. Disobedience is not of God.
I will follow the Pope, I will be loyal to him. This is who we have been given by God to lead us, our shephard, Vicar of Christ. If we don’t believe this, then we are not in our hearts and minds, truly Catholic. We have gone astray and need to return to hear the voice of our shephard.
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piouswoman
Guest
That’s right, just keep throwing this out as often as you can, causing as much damage and harm as you are able, that is the true Catholic spirit.
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SanJudas
Guest
This is known in debating circles as the “Broken Record Method.”
Hitler had a different way of putting it: “Repeat a lie often enough and it will be believed.” Or was that Joseph Goebbels?
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catharina
Guest
There is damage and divisiveness and heartbreak too, but its cause is the disobedience of those who should have obeyed the Holy Father, not my pointing out the fact of that matter.
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catharina
Guest
Perhaps that is a part of your studies. I wouldn’t know.This is known in debating circles as the “Broken Record Method.”
Hitler had a different way of putting it: “Repeat a lie often enough and it will be believed.” Or was that Joseph Goebbels?
I haven’t studied Hitler or Goebbels - or those under the censure of excommunication.
Why would I? Why would anyone?
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bobzills
Guest
Yes, but " Fr. Lawrence G. Wrenn, a canonist with the Hartford, Connecticut, diocesan tribunal, is considered the leading expert today among diocesan tribunalists on how to apply the teachings of Vatican II to the annulment process. His books are published by the Canon Law Society of America. Three notable ones are: Decisions, 1983; The Invalid Marriage, 1998; and Judging Invalidity, 2002. A canon lawyer with whom I spoke told me that these books by Fr. Wrenn are used as textbooks in university canon law courses."
Please see:
Homiletic and Pastoral Review. January 2005,
Judging invalidity the American way
By Sheryl Temaat
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consumedconvert
Guest
Here here!Being a Catholic is simple. Obedience to the Church, the Pope, the Magisterium. Cannot separate them, they come as a unit. If you claim to be in allegiance with one but reject any of the other, you only fool yourself into thinking you are in allegience with any.
**Popolatry.
**Better to follow the Pope, to be loyal to him, than follow a Bishop who stands practically alone, taking unto himself sole authority of interpretation and proclamation that has not been given him from above, leading many many many into error right along with him. Disobedience is not of God. **
I will follow the Pope, I will be loyal to him. This is who we have been given by God to lead us, our shephard, Vicar of Christ. If we don’t believe this, then we are not in our hearts and minds, truly Catholic. We have gone astray and need to return to hear the voice of our shephard.
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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
What you state, I too am against. But it is not because of Vatican II. but the resulting frenzy of mavericks supposedly acting in what they called the spirit of Vatican II. While Iwas in Medjugorje for the first time, I was there for three weeks. I had an opportunity to visit and speak to one of the Council Fathers. He was as mystified as were all the rest. And he said,sadly, "This is not what we did at Vatican II, they are doing it all wrong. This is not the Spirit of Vatican II but the spirit of misguided minds. He was an Archbishop from York England. As a Council father he was proud, as an observer, he was appalled with what was going on. Kept saying, why dont they read them this is not what we did.
Much of what first happened was the action of many disgruntled souls who just took off and went of a change of frenzy. Many of them to day are either out of the Church or Excommunicated. But it was not Vatican II that did it, it was they that did it to themselves.
Praayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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ethelzguy
Guest
When all else fails for the SSPX supporters, they can always scream “papolatry”.
Nice try.
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ethelzguy
Guest
It is for the obedient.
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ethelzguy
Guest
Actually, it is the disobedient bishops that are causing the damage and harm. But as usual, when your arguments won’t hold water, you resort to your “ya’ll are being mean to me” routine.
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