SSPX, FSSP, ICKSP, and Defending Traditionalist Catholicism

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IrishDude45

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I am in a bit of a conflict and extremely confused. I know that SSPX is a touchy subject but I am a traditionalist and I am wondering if becoming a priest in the FSSP or ICKSP will enable me to defend/restore traditional Catholicism in the Church or if SSPX is even an option. Like I said, I know that it is hotly debated whether or not they are considered to be in schism. Just looking for some insight. I am loyal to Rome and I have never gone to a SSPX chapel because of their status and I have doubts about joining SSPX regardless of how much they claim to be in communion with the Holy See. The last thing I want to commit is apostasy!

Pax Vobiscum
 
IrishDude45 said:
I am in a bit of a conflict and extremely confused. I know that SSPX is a touchy subject but I am a traditionalist and I am wondering if becoming a priest in the FSSP or ICKSP will enable me to defend/restore traditional Catholicism in the Church or if SSPX is even an option. Like I said, I know that it is hotly debated whether or not they are considered to be in schism. Just looking for some insight. I am loyal to Rome and I have never gone to a SSPX chapel because of their status and I have doubts about joining SSPX regardless of how much they claim to be in communion with the Holy See. The last thing I want to commit is apostasy!

Pax Vobiscum
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the debate will rage on until the Pope lifts the excommunications of the Bishops, but to get a feel for the mind of the Pope I will add once again that in his (anyone want to finish the sentence for me?) accompanying letter to the Motu Proprio addressed to the Bishops of the world he stated that the Society’s status is an internal matter of reconciliation within the Church. Irregular, yes. In schism? only if internal and within mean external and without.

However your reservations should tell you that the SSPX is probably not for you. I do not have experience with the FSSP or ICKSP–they do not operate in the Diocese where I live…if they did, I probably wouldn’t have gone to the SSPX. However, my conscience will keep in the SSPX and I pray continually for the excommunications to be lifted. Time, I think, will bear out the Doctrinal positions of the SSPX.

I will pray for you during your time of discernment. Will you pray for my purity?
 
maurin said:
the debate will rage on until the Pope lifts the excommunications of the Bishops, but to get a feel for the mind of the Pope I will add once again that in his (anyone want to finish the sentence for me?) accompanying letter to the Motu Proprio addressed to the Bishops of the world he stated that the Society’s status is an internal matter of reconciliation within the Church. Irregular, yes. In schism? only if internal and within mean external and without.

However your reservations should tell you that the SSPX is probably not for you. I do not have experience with the FSSP or ICKSP–they do not operate in the Diocese where I live…if they did, I probably wouldn’t have gone to the SSPX. However, my conscience will keep in the SSPX and I pray continually for the excommunications to be lifted. Time, I think, will bear out the Doctrinal positions of the SSPX.

I will pray for you during your time of discernment. Will you pray for my purity?
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Good Post. Yeah, I found a SSPX Chapel here where I live as well. I’m interested in thoroughly investigating them before I convert to Orthodoxy.
 
Is there a reason why the SSPX won’t accept a “personal prelature”?
What is hindering Full Communion with Rome at this point?
 
IrishDude45 said:
Is there a reason why the SSPX won’t accept a “personal prelature”?
What is hindering Full Communion with Rome at this point?
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A lot of conjecture on this end, some may be because of the some of the major SSPX benefactors not wishing to be part of all the priestly abuses during the last 30 years. I’m sure that there are other reasons as well, including the issue of ecumenism of all Christian denominations. However, I refuse to see where Church doctrine would pose as any kind of problem.
 
IrishDude45 said:
Is there a reason why the SSPX won’t accept a “personal prelature”?
What is hindering Full Communion with Rome at this point?
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I think the fact that this has been said to be an internal matter means that most of the discussion is taking place behind close doors. It should be out of the public eye.
 
While I am devoted to the Byzantine tradtion, off the top of my head, I would suggest FSSP.

They were founded by people formed by SSPX, so they were trained in devotion to the traditional Latin rite, but are unquestionably in full and visible communion with the See of Rome.
 
I have limited experience with the SSPX, and mostly they were good priests and good people. That was all pre-Benedict XVI and Summorum Pontificum, however.
I’ve had a lot of experience with the ICK, and they are some of the best priests I’ve ever come into contact with. I’m told the FSSP is every bit as good (think Franciscans and Domincans), but they just aren’t in my area yet. I also know the ICK will have you do a year of discernment before you commit to the joining (and paying) for the seminary, so that might be a way to test the waters.
Where are you located, and are you hoping to stay in that general area?
 
FWIW, my own experience with the ICK is very positive. They have a very European “flavor” and you will have to learn French because all the seminary instruction is in that language. The FSSP also has excellent priests and an American seminary to boot. Yes, you can work to restore Tradition in either of those priestly fraternities, but there are limits due to having to work within the “system”. Sometimes very frustrating, but ultimately one has to play the hand God has dealt.

I have in the past been very sympathetic to the SSPX, but that sympathy is drying up now that they have repeatedly rejected offers from Rome that are more broad and generous than Abp. Lefebvre himself would have accepted.

I was curious, though, why somebody would check out the SSPX before converting to Eastern Orthodoxy? The SSPX fully accept papal primacy and all other Catholic dogmas; if you accept those too then how could you become Orthodox? Not trying to pick an argument, just wondering.
 
You can attend the chapels of the SSPX, no problem. I myself am uncertain in this area, as far as “joining” them, so to speak. If you want to play it safe, I’d go (if I were a man) FSSP. I’m unfamiliar with the other you mentioned. Keep praying.
 
Just to prevent any confusion, the proper initials of the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest are ICRSS. We use the proper initials for the Latin names of the FSSP and SSPX; we should do the same for the ICRSS.
 
There is a big difference between going to an SSPX chapel as a layman and becoming an SSPX priest. While the layman may only want to find a Traditional Mass, not agree with the “situation of separation” in which the SSPX bishops currently find themselves, and hence remain in good standing with the pope and Rome, it is difficult to see how one could accept ordination from an SSPX bishop in such a situation of separation and be free from guilt. An SSPX priest is irregular in regard to his exercise of Holy Orders, and, hence, every time he offers Mass publicly, he is acting in a serious manner against Canon Law.

My advice to you is to try the FSSP.

God bless,

Fr. Boyd
 
FrRJBoyd said:
There is a big difference between going to an SSPX chapel as a layman and becoming an SSPX priest. While the layman may only want to find a Traditional Mass, not agree with the “situation of separation” in which the SSPX bishops currently find themselves, and hence remain in good standing with the pope and Rome, it is difficult to see how one could accept ordination from an SSPX bishop in such a situation of separation and be free from guilt. An SSPX priest is irregular in regard to his exercise of Holy Orders, and, hence, every time he offers Mass publicly, he is acting in a serious manner against Canon Law.

My advice to you is to try the FSSP.

God bless,

Fr. Boyd
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Great point, Father. Not to mention that confessions in the SSPX are not just illicit but invalid, due to lack of jurisdiction. That’s a pretty serious business and one had better be prepared to put his soul on the line if he’s going to accept the “supplied jurisdictions” arguments put forth by the SSPX.

(And good point on the ICRSS too, Chatter…)
 
My suggestion is FSSP (or to a lesser extent, ICRSS. I attend the TLM of the ICRSS… but they’re a different bag).

Here’s why: we’re seeing a bigger need and demand for tradition in the Church. Part of that need is getting a traditional Mass and traditional view of Catholicism back into the diocesean Novus Ordo parishes. People are asking for the Mass-- and the bishops that support it are turning to the FSSP for help. Priests of the FSSP are streched thinner than ever to bring the TLM to diocesean Catholics. God bless them!

I cannot imagine a scenario where a diocesean Bishop would ask the SSPX to serve the souls of his flock (barring reconciliation; don’t hold your breath).

To me, that is today’s battleground. 2009 is a different world than 1970, 1988 or 2005. The Church is finding her tradition (albeit slowly). Catholics need more priests who can offer the old Mass-- and they need them in their communities and in their parishes. And that service isn’t going to come from the Society.

I suppose there is some risk in getting assigned to a crummy bishop. That’s the risk you run in any job! There’s bad bosses in every gig. But I think that the bishops know what to expect from the traditional fraternities and institutes these days; I’d venture a guess that most of them know where to draw the line (and I suspect that the FSSP helps their Ordinaries draw that line too). The FSSP has been around for 20 years now-- and they do not operate in dioceses where the Ordinary does not want them.
 
Allow me to say that I will rejoice greatly when the relations between the Holy See and SSPX are fully regularized and no longer strained.

Lord, hasten that day!
 
Thanks for all the replies! I really appreciate it.

deigloriam,
deigloriam said:
Where are you located, and are you hoping to stay in that general area?
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I am in Tennessee. The Nashville Diocese. I was hoping to stay in this area, as my family has lived here since before it was a state and I would love to bring the Faith to all these Baptists! 🙂
Yet I realize that the seminary that the diocesan priests here are sent to is very sketchy indeed, and there isn’t a whole lot of support for traditional Catholicism 'round these parts. (or Catholicism in general) I just don’t see it happening, I couldn’t celebrate the Tridentine rite exclusively nor administer the 1962 sacraments without causing a stir.

Chatter,
Chatter163 said:
Just to prevent any confusion, the proper initials of the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest are ICRSS. We use the proper initials for the Latin names of the FSSP and SSPX; we should do the same for the ICRSS.
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Thanks! I’ll remember that! 🙂

Fr. Boyd,
FrRJBoyd said:
There is a big difference between going to an SSPX chapel as a layman and becoming an SSPX priest. While the layman may only want to find a Traditional Mass, not agree with the “situation of separation” in which the SSPX bishops currently find themselves, and hence remain in good standing with the pope and Rome, it is difficult to see how one could accept ordination from an SSPX bishop in such a situation of separation and be free from guilt. An SSPX priest is irregular in regard to his exercise of Holy Orders, and, hence, every time he offers Mass publicly, he is acting in a serious manner against Canon Law.

My advice to you is to try the FSSP.
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Very true! Thank you, I guess I realized that but I had never really thought about it in depth enough to come to that conclusion. I don’t want to act in a manner contrary to the Holy See. I am leaning toward the FSSP but I wonder, does Rome keep a close eye on them or tamper their efforts at all?

Thanks again for all the responses!

In Christ,
Irish

Pax Vobiscum
 
IrishDude45 said:
I am leaning toward the FSSP but I wonder, does Rome keep a close eye on them or tamper their efforts at all?
Pax Vobiscum
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Rome is very supportive; in fact, were it not for then-Cardinal Ratzinger/now-Pope Benedict, there may very well have been no FSSP. The MP has been a great help to the FSSP, and they have trained many priests to offer the TM. I guess the only “tampering” I am aware of would be that at least some in Rome (Cardinal Castrillon-Hoyos among them) would like to see FSSP priests concelebrate at the Chrism Mass once per year. I can’t see how the issue could be forced, though, since there is no pastoral need, and it does seem as if it is up to the individual priest as to whether or not he wishes to concelebrate. I will be leaving my diocese and joining the FSSP in July.

God bless,

Fr. Boyd
 
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