SSPX, Here's The Problem We Have,

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adstrinity

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I hope you can explain it to us.

How is it that you, what in your psyche allows you to logically praise an archbishop that WILLINGLY DEFIED the Church he claims so much to have loved? Obedience is the best thing a priest can do, and he didn’t do that. Really, I want to know, I want to get in your head and understand why is it okay to defy the Church when it suits you and praise a man who has caused a schism in the Church? Why to you canonize this particular troublemaker? Why is it that you are all about the SSPX but not the FSSP or another Latin Mass more in line with the Church? Why do you go out of your way to be devided? Is it pride? Does it make you feel special? Persecuted? Closer to Jesus? Why don’t you accept that the SSPX is not in FULL communion with the Church? …And seriously, why do you venerate tht defiant archbishop?

Thank you. 🙂
 
Who is this “we” you are speaking for? You do not speak for me.
 
floresco said:
Who is this “we” you are speaking for? You do not speak for me.
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I agree:mad:. You don’t speak for me either. I feel closer to the SSPX, then I do to all the liberal, modernist, Protestant-Catholics, who run most of the parishes in our country. We should all be following the example of the Holy Father and pray and work toward reconciliation between the SSPX and the Vatican and not create more division. Just my two cents.
 
basinite said:
I agree:mad:. You don’t speak for me either. I feel closer to the SSPX, then I do to all the liberal, modernist, Protestant-Catholics, who run most of the parishes in our country. We should all be following the example of the Holy Father and pray and work toward reconciliation between the SSPX and the Vatican and not create more division. Just my two cents.
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I agree with your last sentence, though I point out that the SSPX is the one that broke from full communion, not vise versa. There are priests that screw up in our Churches. However, they are still in full communion with Rome.
 
Don’t we have enough SSPX-themed threads in this forum by now? 😛
 
Onegin said:
Don’t we have enough SSPX-themed threads in this forum by now? 😛
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I was waiting for this one. On that other one, it was requested that no one say anything negative. Now, another poster has canonized Lefebvre. A response was predictable. The Catholic Church has made no move at all to this cause, except lifting four excommunications that he caused. Hardly praise of the man.
 
To the OP:

Obedience is the best thing a priest can do?

Obedience to what? To a Pope or tradition? Traditionally, the two should be in unison. But, we now know this is not always the case.

The Bishop was very much obedient! He was obedient to the sacred traditions of the Catholic religion. These supercede the whims or weakness of a Pope.
 
Jordan_Francis said:
To the OP:

Obedience is the best thing a priest can do?

Obedience to what? To a Pope or tradition? Traditionally, the two should be in unison. But, we now know this is not always the case.

The Bishop was very much obedient! He was obedient to the sacred traditions of the Catholic religion. These supercede the whims or weakness of a Pope.
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I believe Christ gave the keys to a person, not tradition.
 
I believe Christ gave the keys to a person, not tradition.
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Well, if you believe the integrity of our religion is in the hands and the whims of a single personality, good luck to you and your religion!

As I see it, the Pope exists to guard fidelity to tradition, which is the essence of the Trinitarian life----Christ is God’s tradition to men, and all the rest springs from there. The Pope’s role is not to modernize or “make relevant”. He is guardian, not an innovator. Fine if he attempts all that as a pastor, but surely not Pope with unlimited power to butcher a few thousand years of the organic transmission of the Faith for the rest of us who simply wish to be loyal to the past.
 
Jordan_Francis said:
Well, if you believe the integrity of our religion is in the hands and the whims of a single personality, good luck to you and your religion!

As I see it, the Pope exists to guard fidelity to tradition, which is the essence of the Trinitarian life----Christ is God’s tradition to men, and all the rest springs from there. The Pope’s role is not to modernize or “make relevant”. He is guardian, not an innovator. Fine if he attempts all that as a pastor, but surely not Pope with unlimited power to butcher a few thousand years of the organic transmission of the Faith for the rest of us who simply wish to be loyal to the past.
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Actually, it is.

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 18:18-20[/BIBLEDRB]

This is Jesus talking to the Apostles telling them how much power and authority they have. This power and authority has been passed on to our Pope and bishops.
 
pnewton said:
I was waiting for this one. On that other one, it was requested that no one say anything negative. Now, another poster has canonized Lefebvre. A response was predictable. The Catholic Church has made no move at all to this cause, except lifting four excommunications that he caused. Hardly praise of the man.
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I think the subsequent threads are hardly coincidental. Regardless, it’s getting hard to distinguish them and it probably wouldn’t hurt if they were consolidated.
 
For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

“Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ.”
St. Athanasius, AD 373

H.E. Lefebvre and the SSPX would not approve of my assisting both forms of the Mass. Nor would the SSPX flock that post here.

But, H.E.'s intentions were clear. He risked doing what might turn out wrong, to do what he sincerely thought was right, that is, uphold Tradition. His intention was not a questioning of dogma or Doctrine. He decided to give a group of Roman Catholic clergy what they begged him for. A group whose intention was and remains, winning souls for Christ the King.

“Indeed, the true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries, nor innovators: they are traditionalists.”
Pope St. Pius X, Notre Charge Apostolique

Every single priest up until VII took the Oath Against Modenism. H.E. was among them. And he was one of the ones that did not break it.

“It is granted to few to recognize the true Church amid the darkness of so many schisms and heresies, and to fewer still so to love the truth which they have seen as to fly to its embrace.”
St. Robert Bellarmine

How can a man who gave his life to Holy Mother Church in such a manner be ridiculed and detested repeatedly, while Cardinals allow pagan rituals and lazer light rock shows in their Cathedrals ?

I have no doubts at all H.E.Lefebvre was greeted warmly at the Gates of Heaven.
 
“We” are those in the Catholic Church. Those LOYAL to the Catholic Church.

And, I posted this thread because I did not want to hijack any of the other threads, praising this man, deifying him, practically. It upset me that others were cultishly prostrating themselves before this man rather than God’s Church, I wanted to know the sway this man has. This particular topic covered in any of them, ergo, new topic.

So, then, it is because of people feeling that tradition supercedes the Keys passed on coupled with the provable fact that the current priests do not take the oath against modernism that leads one to this? It makes sense, I guess. I don’t agree with it, but, it makes sense.

You know, yesterday, I looked on Wikipedia to find out more about the SSPX and found out that the FSSP and two others broke away from them, which is why we faithful in the Church even have the option of Latin Masses currently, BUT, these three are in full communion with the Church. These three are the prodgical son who themselves came back to the father (Mother Church) because they admitted they were wrong. At no time in that parable, I’d like to point out, did the father ever have to kowtow to the son who left him.

I thank you all who have answered and explained the reasoning behind the French archbishop’s mindset. 🙂
 
Jordan_Francis said:
The Bishop was very much obedient! He was obedient to the sacred traditions of the Catholic religion. These supercede the whims or weakness of a Pope.
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I wonder that if Martin Luther had expressed the same sentiment as you express here, would you give him a pass for what he did?

Obedience means submitting yourself to the legitimate Authority, not what you “think” is right.
 
adstrinity speak for yourself not this “we” you keep referring to. Your opinion represents your own thoughts, that is it. What was the point of starting this anyway? To stir up SSPX and make them angry. The last thing Catholics need are more enemies. It is ok for somebody to be part of another religion that isn’t Catholicism. There is no need to poke fun at their beliefs or call them out in an online forum. You are a joke of a person.
 
Hmmm…perhaps I should only use “I” instead of the “we”. Alright, ~I~ have questions on why so many have suddenly felt the need to begin threads regarding their support of the disobediant French Archbishop. It’s one thing to defend the Latin Mass, or the SSPX, but, to suddenly try to make that guy into a hero made me curious as to why. But, it has been explained as to why he thought he did what was right. …The Catholic Church views him as wrong, but, HE thought he was…preserving the Church? Defending it against the devil? He didn’t go along with the Church, but he went with his personal convictions (which were against the Church). Again, I understand the logic he used, but, I do not agree with the man’s actions. 🙂
 
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