SSPX impact on one soul

[Mrs_Sally]

I have never seen an old style church “wreckovated” although I know it has happened. What I have seen are newer churches built in the styles and materials that were current at the time. Some are definately ugly, but most are just different from that classical church style we are used to.

My current parish is a half round layout with a brick wall behind the altar. Exactly the style many often bemoan. But we do have stained glass and a few statues. We have large painting for the Stations, commisioned by our Pastor from a local artist. We do have confessionals (even in a church built in the mid 70s!) and our priests peach about confession and it is offered frequently during the week.

Do not allow the mistakes of a few men or a historical event (the change in your church’s interior) affect your faith. There is much more to faith than what a church building looks like. Ask your pastor for an appointment for confession, or find a confession time at a nearby parish if possible. The sacraments should be available to you, but sometimes we need to do a bit to get to them. Offer up your frustrations for the sake of those who truly don’t have access to the sacraments - the places where a priest can only come through once a year or so!

I will be praying for you.

 

[JRKH]

I get what you’re saying. But… 1) I’m an art history major , and 2) iconoclasm is a heresy officially condemned by the Church, at the Second Council of Nicaea in 787. Despoiling statues is a heresy, so I think there’s something justifiable in “getting all up in arms” about it.

Point taken…but I the poster said the statues were “removed” - not that they were “despoiled”.

Peace
James

 

[thunderboom]

Point taken…but I the poster said the statues were “removed” - not that they were “despoiled”.

Peace
James

'Tis true.

 

[TomD123]

Thank you for such an over whelming response. It has taken me some time to work through the resonses. And in truth I am still reading some links that have been suggested.
PLus I work 12h shift work, and have been working during this small period.

Please understand what I am about to write is not trying to be argumenative, rather a soul struggling with the very shackles that he has placed on himself.

I do believe that the Vatican II council (V2) is valid. Reading the documents I see nothing of overt concern. Many of them have a very open and loving language. I believe that the documents themselves are legal.
I must preface that I have no education to back up these statements. Truely I am a simple layman. My education runs in a very different direction.

Its what I have seen since the council.
IN my parish, the sacrement on reconcilliation is no longer offered. The confessionals have been removed and where they remain (in some churchs) they have been converted to closets.
Alters have been removed, broken in the parking lots, then burned behind the church.
Many of the statues have been removed.

I have to send this one off as is.
But I shall add to this, as this is left unbalanced for not all is so bleak.

Please be patient with a troubed soul.
I look forward to any and all feed back.
Lance

Ok so I haven’t read what all of the other posters have said so I apologize if I am repetitive. I do have some thoughts however:

1. You love certain things about the Church. These things (the values you speak of etc.) that you find in the SSPX are actually part of the one Catholic Church, rightfully theirs. The SSPX is a group that has taken these things and become disobedient to the Pope. You are attracted to something that is of the Catholic Church, you need not disobey the Pope to find these things, they are Catholic not SSPX.
2. Some of the things you mention since V2 are of great concern to many Catholics! I understand the trouble. However, many parishes and groups that are obedient to the Pope and are in full communion with Rome that preserve Tradition.
3. Continue to pray everyday. Prayer is essential. Pray the Rosary as much as possible. Our Blessed Mother will guide us.

 

[bellasbane]

If this is about Vatican II… Vatican II was a pastoral council and made no infallible pronouncements. Pope Paul VI (of Vatican II) said the Vatican II did not teach “with a note of infalliblity”.

The Church has had it’s ups and downs over the course of history. This shouldn’t be a reason to lose faith. Stay for the ride and reach for heaven.

Was the Council binding or merely pastoral?

The problem here is the interpretation of the word “pastoral”. All Councils are pastoral in that they are concerned with the work of the Church - but this does not mean that they are merely “poetic” and therefore not binding. Vatican II is an official Ecumenical Council, and all that was said in the Council is therefore binding for everyone, but at different levels. We have Dogmatic Constitutions and you are certainly obliged to accept them if you are Catholic. Dei Verbum discusses divine revelation, it speaks about the Trinitarian God revealing Himself, and about the Incarnation as fundamental teaching. These are not only pastoral teachings, they are basic elements of our Catholic faith. Some practical elements contained in the various documents could be changed, but the body of the doctrine of the Council is binding for everyone.

• H.E. ARCHBISHOP GERHARD LUDWIG MÜLLER, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20120913_interview-muller_en.html

 

[PJM]

=LanceMacIsaac;10448277]I find myself truly lost. I am sending this as a sort of spiritual flare.
The spiritual crisis: am I a Catholic? Do I want to be a Catholic?

Without boring those whom are kind enough to I shall outline a very truncated background.
I enter into the Church through RCIA.
Examined the possibility of a vocation of priesthood.
Earnestly studied my faith and was challenged by non Catholics, whom I offered a poor defence of the faith.
In developing an informed defence discovered SSPX.
Rejected it out of hand.
Then I began to read and reflect, and I became lost.
They in fact reflected and articulated the very values that I held so close.
I see “lies” within the Church, and huge disappointments.
I went to my parish priest seeking aid out of this dark forest. He sent me to a parishioner. She shrugged her shoulders confused, and sent me back to him.
This has been a 12 year struggle.

I come here hoping to find someone or a group kind enough to help guide a soul back safely into the Church.

My first question is; has the Church gone off the rails since Vatican II?

Hi Lance,

I sent you a PM also.

The first thing you must understand is the necessary difference and in this case; the necessary seperation between “The Church” and the members of that Church.

“The Church”
One
Holy
Catholic
& Apostolic

Was Founded and mimics Her Founder who is “Perfect” and She remains “perfected” today and for all time. A position that is biblically proveable.

She [Mother Church] CANNOT sin! Her members [even clerics] can and do

The Pius X positions attack God; God’s One set of Faith beliefs and God’s Singular truths, found within the Only Church and Faith he Founded and Protects.

Not so very different than the Great Eastern Schism which [IMO!] who hid its motive of POWER “to the people” in a cloud of theological desent; this current movement Mimics the style and motives of the Great Schism, where we find in this current effort an attempt to FORCE its will and its Philosophy unpon the rest of the church. " I know more & I know better !"

Certainly their is some good; and at least a grain of truth in **SOME **of their positions. BUT the Key’s [ALL of them] to heaven were given to and remain with the Papicy and the CC!

Some TRUTH IS NOT; and cannot be substuited for THE singular TRUTH protected, guided and guarded by God Himself!

Because God is One [Triune]

PERFECT in every way

and Personally warrants the Teaching truth of His One Church [Mt.10:1-8; Jn.14:16-17; fulfilled in John 20:21-22; and gives HIMSELF as warraty: John 17:15-19]; one can know where the truth; and where God Himself and Christ One Faith rest. … Within the CC. Mt. 16:15-19 leaves NO ROOM to doubt this fact. Amen.

Certianly, in the post Vatican IIperiod, some leaders within the church took it upon themselves to make changes and modifications that they deemed as good and necessary. God will judge their acts as He alone is able to do.That is NOT our decision to make.

Clearly it is Seriously wrong to deny the verasity of Vatican II and the popes elected after 1965. THAT too is God’s call; and not within the authority of unguided and unprotected by God; men’s personal-jugdment call to make.

I, and no doubt many others would be willing to discuss all of your concerns with you.

God Bless you,
Pat/PJM here on this FORUM