SSPX Info, updates and interviews

[JReducation]

There are many many sad things about Bishop Williamson’s comments, as quoted above (and as have appeared over the past weeks). One I would like to point out is that Archbishop Lefebvre himself argued for an “experiment of Tradition.” His argument was that if the church is trying this, that, and other, why not try “tradition.” Bishop Williamson seems to be rejecting this specific idea here, going counter to his founder’s thoughts.

I don’t think there is anyway Bishop Williamson will reconcile. It makes me sad, as all disunity does, but part of me thinks that if the society loses some of these unreasonable hard-liners, people who act (as Bishop Fellay pointed out) as sedevacantists, it might be a good thing overall. But I pray for all to be reconciled, for all to submit to the Roman Pontiff.

• PAX

One of the most wonderful things that we must never forget is that God exists outside of time and space. Let’s assume that Bishop Williamson and others choose not to come home. The obvious happens, they go into schism. However, there are two ways of looking at a schism.

The hopeless man looks at it as the end of the line End of story.

The man of hope looks at it in God’s time. Today may not be the right day to come home, but it may be in five years. In God’s space today or five years from today is all the same. He is the father who never sleeps, because he is eternally waiting for his children to come home.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[giuseppeTO]

One of the most wonderful things that we must never forget is that God exists outside of time and space. Let’s assume that Bishop Williamson and others choose not to come home. The obvious happens, they go into schism. However, there are two ways of looking at a schism.

The hopeless man looks at it as the end of the line End of story.

The man of hope looks at it in God’s time. Today may not be the right day to come home, but it may be in five years. In God’s space today or five years from today is all the same. He is the father who never sleeps, because he is eternally waiting for his children to come home.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Nice thought Bro.

 

[ImmaculataFides]

Nice thought Bro.

This situation is not good! I’m personally very anxious. There will be a huge schism if this doctrinal preamble is signed. It is only Bishop Fellay who is going full steam ahead with it. The three other Bishops are against it.

How do we know if this whole idea is not just part of a bigger plan made by many of ill-will in the Conciliar Heirachy to destroy the Society? We must pray that God’s will be done!

 

[Melchior_1]

How do we know if this whole idea is not just part of a bigger plan made by many of ill-will in the Conciliar Heirachy to destroy the Society? We must pray that God’s will be done!

If you open up your Bible to Matthew 16:18, you’ll find your answer.

Something needs to be made very clear here my friend; Pope Benedict the Sixteenth is a friend of yours. He is a friend of the Society of Saint Pius Ten. He has been involved with this for some time, from the time this whole situation started rolling downhill.

Make no mistake; the true successor to Saint Peter, Pope Benedict, could have jettisoned the lot of you. He did not need to lift the excommunications of the four Bishops. He did not need to send a preamble. He did not need to engage in dialogue. He did not need to be diplomatic. As the one whom has the authority to bind and loose, he could have summarily removed every single clergyman of the SSPX from the Church. He has this authority to do so.

But he didn’t. Because he is a patient man, a caring man, he wants all of you to come home. We ALL want you all to come home. But you need to understand there’s no monsters under the bed. This is not a modernist Pope, this is a good man who extended the olive branch. He didn’t have to go through all this effort, but he does so out of love and concern for his flock, which is the entire Catholic Church. He wants you all back, and he alone has the power to do this. Remember at the end of the day, the four Bishops have been given their authority by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who passed away several years ago.

Pope Benedict XVI has been given his authoity by Christ Jesus, through apostolic succession.

It looks as if Bishop Fellay knows this, and is honouring his founder by going with the fellow who has the authority granted by the Holy Spirit, as told in the Scriptures. The SSPX clergy, and laity, should follow his lead. Take off the tinfoil hats and pick up your Rosary beads, and pray some chaplet of Divine Mercy.

Come back home, please. We love you all and want you home.

 

[JReducation]

This situation is not good! I’m personally very anxious. There will be a huge schism if this doctrinal preamble is signed. It is only Bishop Fellay who is going full steam ahead with it. The three other Bishops are against it.

How do we know if this whole idea is not just part of a bigger plan made by many of ill-will in the Conciliar Heirachy to destroy the Society? We must pray that God’s will be done!

The Church is the source of grace for the Society, not the other way around. The longer the Society stays out there, the further it will drift away from the Church. It is not enough to have all of the rubrics and catechism and more. One must have full communion with Peter.

Bishop Fellay said something very important in his letter and in an interview. It was worth noting that he repeated it. “The Holy Father wants this to happen now.” His other statement was similar, “Rome will no longer tolerate this situation.” Finally, he said that he wished he had a little more time, but the Holy Father will not accept that.

We can have a little schism, some of the SSPX does not come in or we can have a big schism, the pope declares everyone in the SSPX in schism including any laity that support it, as was done when the Orthodox broke and the Old Catholics broke.

I don’t know about you, but I prefer the little schism.

It is unavoidable that someone is going to be unhappy. There is no way to please everyone here.

We also have to stop thinking in terms of a “conciliar hierarchy”. There is a Catholic Hierarchy. They are not part of some other church or religion. They govern our Church, warts and all. The more we use such terms, the more we cultivate mistrust in our own minds.

At the end of the day, if the Society survives or not is not the important thing here. Societies, religious orders, congregations, dioceses, etc have come and gone though the Church’s 2000 year history. The important thing is that no matter what happens, we’re going to survive, because we’re the Catholic Church. We have to keep that as the main thought in our minds.

We’re not the SSPX, the Franciscans, Opus Dei, the diocese of Timbuktu. Those are patches in the quilt. We are the Catholic Church, we can do this and we will survive. Grace is always with us.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[ImmaculataFides]

If you open up your Bible to Matthew 16:18, you’ll find your answer.

I know the ending victory, I’m talking about the present. Also, just to clear it up, I don’t attend the SSPX. I attend the FSSP. I just have friends who attend SSPX and I sympathise with the Society.

But he didn’t. Because he is a patient man, a caring man, he wants all of you to come home. We ALL want you all to come home.

What does that even mean? The SSPX is home. The SSPX was never in schism, and is fully Catholic, and thus in communion with the Catholic Church.

But you need to understand there’s no monsters under the bed. This is not a modernist Pope, this is a good man who extended the olive branch.

That is simply denialism. There are monsters under the bed. The Church is in a total mess, and it isn’t going to get better for a long, long time yet. All because of modernism. There are still modernist Bishops who hate tradition and try their absolute hardest to suppress the traditional Mass and sacraments, and teachings. The Society does not consider Pope Benedict a “traditionalist”, but rather a “conservative” because he is still a powerful advocate of Vatican II. They have a point: he was even a “liberal” periti during the Second Vatican Council, working with Hans Kung and others. I’m not trying to smear our beloved Pope, simply pointing out the facts.

He didn’t have to go through all this effort, but he does so out of love and concern for his flock, which is the entire Catholic Church. He wants you all back, and he alone has the power to do this.

Again, some confusion. The SSPX is fully Catholic and in communion with the Church.

Remember at the end of the day, the four Bishops have been given their authority by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who passed away several years ago. Pope Benedict XVI has been given his authoity by Christ Jesus, through apostolic succession.

Contradiction. In both cases they were given their authority by Christ Jesus through apostolic succession.

It looks as if Bishop Fellay knows this, and is honouring his founder by going with the fellow who has the authority granted by the Holy Spirit, as told in the Scriptures. The SSPX clergy, and laity, should follow his lead. Take off the tinfoil hats and pick up your Rosary beads, and pray some chaplet of Divine Mercy.

For goodness sake. Firstly, I don’t know the motives of Bishop Fellay in this current debacle because I haven’t kept up to date with his letters and sermons. The SSPX will give reasons for their disobedience.

Also, a lot of traditionalists don’t pray Divine Mercy. Just thought I’d point that out!

Come back home, please. We love you all and want you home.

The SSPX always were home. They are fully Catholic, were never in schism, and were always in communion with the Church.

Through the Hearts of Jesus and Mary,

I.F.

 

[ImmaculataFides]

The Church is the source of grace for the Society, not the other way around. The longer the Society stays out there, the further it will drift away from the Church. It is not enough to have all of the rubrics and catechism and more. One must have full communion with Peter.

I don’t think anyone would disagree with the first sentence. However, I must say again, the Society is in communion with the Church and Peter.

Bishop Fellay said something very important in his letter and in an interview. It was worth noting that he repeated it. “The Holy Father wants this to happen now.” His other statement was similar, “Rome will no longer tolerate this situation.” Finally, he said that he wished he had a little more time, but the Holy Father will not accept that.

We can have a little schism, some of the SSPX does not come in or we can have a big schism, the pope declares everyone in the SSPX in schism including any laity that support it, as was done when the Orthodox broke and the Old Catholics broke.

Indeed, but this deal does not affect being in Communion with the Church. This deal is simply a deal to make the Society regular again. If it was about being either in or out of the Church, I think we know what the answer would be. There is a big difference between the SSPX and the Eastern Orthodox and Old Catholics. Firstly, the Old Catholics were heretics who rejected infallible dogma. Secondly, the Eastern Orthodox refused to acknowledge Papal Authority, which put them into schism. The SSPX has done neither. The SSPX believes and professes every Doctrine and Dogma of Holy Mother Church. The SSPX do recognize the authority of the Papacy, they are just disobedient.

I don’t know about you, but I prefer the little schism.

It is unavoidable that someone is going to be unhappy. There is no way to please everyone here.

I think this point is debatable. Only 1 of the 4 Bishops want this preamble. Many of the SSPX clergy would ask: is it worth having a huge schism within the Society just because one of the Bishops wants to accept the preamble and become ‘regular’ again?

We also have to stop thinking in terms of a “conciliar hierarchy”. There is a Catholic Hierarchy. They are not part of some other church or religion. They govern our Church, warts and all. The more we use such terms, the more we cultivate mistrust in our own minds.

Using the terminology ‘conciliar’ does not imply they are part of another Church or religion. It simply refers to the post-Vatican II heirachy of the Church, obviously along with the attitudes of many in that heirachy. Hostile to tradition and embracing to novelty. Not all of them, but many.

At the end of the day, if the Society survives or not is not the important thing here. Societies, religious orders, congregations, dioceses, etc have come and gone though the Church’s 2000 year history. The important thing is that no matter what happens, we’re going to survive, because we’re the Catholic Church. We have to keep that as the main thought in our minds.

There’s a difference though. There’s a difference between the Society of St. Pius X and the many other Societies, orders, congregations in the Church. The Society teach the traditional faith, celebrate the traditional sacraments, preach traditional doctrine and offer the traditional Mass. The whole reason the SSPX is despised and in the spotlight is because of this, because of their refusal to conform with the novelty after Vatican II.

We’re not the SSPX, the Franciscans, Opus Dei, the diocese of Timbuktu. Those are patches in the quilt. We are the Catholic Church, we can do this and we will survive. Grace is always with us.

Indeed we are the Catholic Church, but the Society is in the spotlight.

God Bless and keep you Br.

Keep the faith.

I.F.

 

[giuseppeTO]

This situation is not good! I’m personally very anxious. There will be a huge schism if this doctrinal preamble is signed. It is only Bishop Fellay who is going full steam ahead with it. The three other Bishops are against it.

How do we know if this whole idea is not just part of a bigger plan made by many of ill-will in the Conciliar Heirachy to destroy the Society? We must pray that God’s will be done!

I disagree that this doctrinal preamble will cause a huge schism.

Firstly, we do not know what it says so it is mere speculation that it is unacceptable.

Secondly, even though the three bishops urged (in a private communication) that Bp Fellay not sign it, they stopped short of saying they would disassociate themselves from Bp Fellay if he were to sign it.

Thirdly, what would your opinion be if the bishops (at least two of them anyway) issued a public letter stating their support for whatever Bp Fellay agrees to?

I think it is almost cowardly to worry that someone may request or force anyone, clergy or layperson alike, to act against or morals sometime in the future. In other words, drawing the SSPX into a trap. It will always be our obligation to adhere to the same faith and morals that we adhere to today. We have never been worried about the consequences of adhering to the faith in the past, so why now? Perhaps the Society will be more effective in rejuvenating the faith operating within the hierarchy as opposed to outside of it.

If Bp Fellay were merely interested in being regularized, he could have joined the FSSP or one of the other regularized groups a long time ago. I think his letter to the three bishops speaks volumes about our obligation, at some level, to trust that Christ will give us all the tools to do His will. Christ will eventually bring salvation to His Church through His Vicar and that is a fact. To refuse to work with His Vicar in the restoration of the Church would be to admit that Christ has somehow abandoned His Vicar.

Like you, I wish I knew Christ’s timeline for all this, but I don’t.

 

[Lupe_Lu]

Just as in any group, there are people in SSPX who are acting from good motives; by this I mean, people who sincerely love Christ and His Church. When the Society reconciles with the Church, they will be very happy, and they will follow Bishop Fellay and reaffirm their loyalty and obedience to the Holy Father.

Then there are people in SSPX whose motivation for belonging to the Society is mixed, or more self-serving.

These are the ones who will split off and try to start their own religion.

Obviously, both the SSPX and the Church of Rome will be much better off without them.

The unification can only be a good thing for everyone.

I hope it happens soon.

 

[Cristiano]

Just as in any group, there are people in SSPX who are acting from good motives; by this I mean, people who sincerely love Christ and His Church. When the Society reconciles with the Church, they will be very happy, and they will follow Bishop Fellay and reaffirm their loyalty and obedience to the Holy Father.

Then there are people in SSPX whose motivation for belonging to the Society is mixed, or more self-serving.

These are the ones who will split off and try to start their own religion.

Obviously, both the SSPX and the Church of Rome will be much better off without them.

The unification can only be a good thing for everyone.

I hope it happens soon.

I strongly disagree with the statement that I emphasized with bold font. It would be easier in the short term but it would not be better.

 

[Filii_Dei]

What are you all arguing about?

Prayers, you fools. Double them!

 

[WFS5801]

I can’t speak for what is making them resist reconciliation, …

Well, kind of hard to know why, when the letter of the three bishops was not posted. You’re only getting one side of the argument.

 

[Melchior_1]

I know the ending victory, I’m talking about the present. Also, just to clear it up, I don’t attend the SSPX. I attend the FSSP. I just have friends who attend SSPX and I sympathise with the Society.

You’re talking about how the Pope and the College of Cardinals have a specific trap awaiting the SSPX which will destroy them. I’m sorry, but that’s more than sympathetic, that’s conspiratorial. And dangerously close to a line you probably don’t want to cross.

What does that even mean? The SSPX is home. The SSPX was never in schism, and is fully Catholic, and thus in communion with the Catholic Church.

“Home” with zero faculties and the inability to hear confessions. I’m sorry, I thought that having such things restored would be desirable.

And by “come home” I meant the alternative to reconciliation is schism. They are in the foyer right now. They need to come home or the door will close.

Also, a lot of traditionalists don’t pray Divine Mercy. Just thought I’d point that out!

They’re missing out on the best devotion this side of the Dominican Rosary. Their loss, I guess.

 

[WFS5801]

Having a sacred language does nothing to prevent folks who aren’t a part of the Church from twisting certain letters around. People would still apply their thoughts to the characters and words.

I’m sorry, but I seriously doubt that non-Catholics think SSPX means “X-rated movies.” This is just too ridiculous.

 

[Melchior_1]

I’m sorry, but I seriously doubt that non-Catholics think SSPX means “X-rated movies.” This is just too ridiculous.

I wasn’t the one that broached that topic, mate. Someone else did, leading another person saying “if we did everything in Latin, we would never have this problem!”

I merely pointed out that people will always find a way to twist certain things around, regardless if a “sacred language” was used.

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

They’re missing out on the best devotion this side of the Dominican Rosary.

Oh no! Are you judging and comparing the efficacy of devotional practices?

• PAX

 

[Melchior_1]

Oh no! Are you judging and comparing the efficacy of devotional practices?

• PAX

---

YES I AM.

(Actually, I’m not. Giving my personal opinion, is all. I reserve the right to change my mind on this depending on how my experiment goes this month).

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

---

yes i am.

(actually, i’m not. Giving my personal opinion, is all. I reserve the right to change my mind on this depending on how my experiment goes this month).

:d

• pax

 

[WFS5801]

That only makes sense, since the EF and OF are the same Latin Rite Mass. If you belong to the Latin Church, you must study the rubrics for both forms of the Latin Rite.

And, apparently, the OF Mass is “big” enough to include clown masses, charismatic masses and Easter Bunny masses as well.

What happens, after the SSPX bows to the Vatican II dictates and a new Pope decides that the Traditional Latin Mass (aka the “EF”) is no longer needed? That the “OF” is just as “efficacious” as the Traditional Latin Mass? They have no choice but to comply as they have cut their former argument off at the knees.

And, if (lots of “ifs” here) Bishop Fellay signs this agreement and it contains what most think it will contain (which is just a “starting point” of the negotiations, according to the Vatican), what was the whole point of the SSPX in the first place?

And where does this agreement leave the laymen? Since a prelature only applies to priests and bishops, can the Bishop (the local Bishop) force his newly reintegrated flock to attend “OF” masses, whether they want to, or not? After all, local bishops are still nixing Traditional Latin masses, even though the Pope said they must provide them.

 

[Melchior_1]

:d

• pax

Why did that transform everything into lowercase? I work hard to have proper grammar and spelling on these here interwebs! Blah!