SSPX Info, updates and interviews

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I strongly agree with you that the mission of the Church is to bring people to Christ and Christ to people. However, I also understand the significance of time. St. Clare said this to St. Francis when he came back disappointed, because he had not converted the sultan. She told him that the time was not right, but it was time to convert the Catholics. He should focus on that. Well, interestingly enough, he did. Between Dominic and him, they reformed the Church of the Middle Ages.

We have to consider the possibility that some or all of the SSPX may go into schism and it’s not the time to bring them in, because they’re not ready. God is always ready. Man moves a little more slowly. The Church may have to jettison them and allow a few generations to pass, then begin a courtship again, just as she did with the Eastern Churches. Look at how many went into schism and look at how many have come back over the centuries. It happened because the simply stopped all dialogue for several generations. Later, new accords were drawn and very slowly, the Eastern Churches have trickled back.

This is a real possibility for some people associated with the SSPX. The sad part is that while we let those few generations of cooling down time pass, we can have nothing to do with each other as was formerly the case with the Orthodox. It’s like sending to boxers to their respective corners for a while. Sometimes you just need distance from the problem and new blood on both sides. That will take two or three generations.

Those are just my thoughts.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
These comments started with a poster saying that: "Obviously, both the SSPX and the Church of Rome will be much better off without them."

To which I commented that while it is easier in the short term, still it is not being better off. My comment reflects your more generalized idea that things must happen at the proper time and sometimes it takes a few generations to let things cool down. However, I am quite skittish when I hear absolute comments about a degree of goodness in leaving someone out of the Church. To me it sounds like the comment, of some people, saying that it would be better for the so called cafeteria Catholics to leave the Church. It makes me cringe.
 
Before going on to respond to Cristiano’s post, I’d like to clarify another post, that I can’t find now. Someone said "There is not such thing as partial communion. There is no basis in law."

The truth is that there is such a thing. This was proven by a joint commission of Franciscans, Dominicans and Jesuits during the Counter Reformation era when the question on the table was, “What is the different between the then heretical Protestants and the Eastern Orthodox?” The Dominicans, Franciscans and Jesuits responded, “Communion”. The Orthodox are in schism, but they have a communion in sacris; communion in Apostolic Succession and communion in most dogmas. Therefore, there are not in full communion, but they are in communion in very significant areas that cannot be denied.

This has never been a point of law until Pope Paul insisted that it be put into Canon Law. However, it was always taught in ecclesiology in every Franciscan, Dominican and Jesuit house of formation and those of most religious orders since the late 1600s.

Pope Paul VI popularized the term “imperfect communion” in the 1960s when he lifted the excommunication of the Orthodox and asked that they lift the excommunications of the Roman Catholics. Both sides agreed. While there is a schism between us, neither they nor us are schismatic. Our ancestors were, not us. We’re the heirs of the mess they created.

Yes, the SSPX is not in full communion with the Apostolic See. As long as the Apostolic See says that they are not, then they are not. It is the Apostolic See who decides who is and who is not in communion. There are no angels from heaven and no other forces on earth that have the power to define this.

This takes us back to the idea of the SSPX going into schism. They can teach traditional Catholic doctrine and do everything by the traditional books, but if the Holy Father says to them that they have to submit of be jettisoned from the Church, to refuse to submit is to go into schism. How and why? That’s the condition that the pope laid down, accept or I declare you in schism. The schism is valid, because the issue has come down to a power struggle. It’s not longer about tradition, but about who is in charge. And if they insist that they can be in charge of themselves, then they deny the authority of the Primacy. I believe that Bishop Fellay was told exactly this and that’s why he has said, “Rome will not tolerate this any longer,” and “The Pope wants it now.” I don’t think that he’s speculating. I believe that he quoting what he’s been told. “Make it happen or you’re no longer Catholic.” The Church can strip the name Catholic from any instititution and society. Once it says that the Society is no longer Catholic, then those who follow the Society are no longer Catholic. It’s a horrible mess.
These comments started with a poster saying that: "Obviously, both the SSPX and the Church of Rome will be much better off without them."

To which I commented that while it is easier in the short term, still it is not being better off. My comment reflects your more generalized idea that things must happen at the proper time and sometimes it takes a few generations to let things cool down. However, I am quite skittish when I hear absolute comments about a degree of goodness in leaving someone out of the Church. To me it sounds like the comment, of some people, saying that it would be better for the so called cafeteria Catholics to leave the Church. It makes me cringe.
I think it’s a very human response out of frustration. We all know that it’s not true. The best is for everyone to be on board. Sometimes, you get so tired of hearing the same whining and complaining that you just want these folks to go away. It’s just your emotions speaking, not reason.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
 
In his own words:

Video

I hope this wasn’t posted elsewhere. :o

This is good. Very good. Yet…

Why do I feel so pained watching him speak. Why is he using the vague language he so abhorred?
 
In his own words:

Video

I hope this wasn’t posted elsewhere. :o

This is good. Very good. Yet…

Why do I feel so pained watching him speak. Why is he using the vague language he so abhorred?
Hi TL,👋

Thanks for posting this!👍 I will try & watch it tonight.

Oh, I pray it is positive!!!:gopray2:

God Bless you,

PAX:highprayer:
 
In his own words:

Video

I hope this wasn’t posted elsewhere. :o

This is good. Very good. Yet…

Why do I feel so pained watching him speak. Why is he using the vague language he so abhorred?
Oh, wow. Good video. Thanks for the post.
 
In his own words:

Video

I hope this wasn’t posted elsewhere. :o

This is good. Very good. Yet…

Why do I feel so pained watching him speak. Why is he using the vague language he so abhorred?
Hi TL,

Ok, I just watched it, its only 6 minutes long.

And now I understand what you mean:o. There seems to be a certain sadness,
or maybe he is just tired & stressed out over it all. His eyes look a bit tired…:o

Oh, I pray that it all turns out OK!!!:gopray2:

I really love listening to him, he seems so wise, so knowledgeable, so holy!

May our Lord Bless him, regardless of what happens down the road!!

I pray for a positive outcome for all!:signofcross:

Thank you,

God Bless you,

PAX:highprayer:
 
I’m happy to hear him defend the Second Vatican Council 🙂
That’s the part I found extremely painful. I can’t speak for him but I felt that it was basically going to be the party line. This is one of the concessions he has to make and this is how it is going to be framed.

Well you do whaddya gotta do (Brooklyn accent)
 
I’m happy to hear him defend the Second Vatican Council 🙂
I did find his statement,
Many people have an understanding of the Council which is a wrong understanding. Now we have authorities in Rome say it. In the disccusions, we see many things which we would have condemned being from the council are in fact not from the council.
Bishop Fellay
Not that far from Cardinal Ratzinger,
An interpretation of the Council that understands its dogmatic texts as mere preludes to a still unattained conciliar spirit, that regards the whole as just a preparation for Gaudium et spes and that looks upon the latter text as just the beginning of an unswerving course toward an ever greater union with what is called progress—such an interpretation is not only contrary to what the Council Fathers intended and meant, it has been reduced ad absurdum by the course of events. Where the spirit of the Council is turned against the word of the Council and is vaguely regarded as a distillation from the development that evolved from the “Pastoral Constitution”, this spirit becomes a specter and leads to meaninglessness.
Cardinal Ratzinger
Principles, 390
 
I have never met Bp. Fellay but I sense in him a similar quality that Abp Lefebvre(still can’t spell his name right) possessed.

I met the Abp way back in 1980 in Idaho. Up to that time he was the Holiest man I had ever met. Back then I didn’t even know what the SSPX was or what troubles they had been through.

All I knew was that the Mass was powerful and reverent.
 
And what does that say to you?
That many problems exist in properly understanding Catholic Doctrine. That the Church suffers from many clergy, theologians and lay persons openly dissented from Church teaching.
 
And what does that say to you?
To me that means that he is now willing to read the text of the 2nd vatican council in light of church teaching. In other words, when it is possible to take what is written different ways, assume the best, and take it to mean that which is in line with Church teaching. 🤷 Seems like a good thing to me. 👍
 
That many problems exist in properly understanding Catholic Doctrine. That the Church suffers from many clergy, theologians and lay persons openly dissented from Church teaching.
This is true.
 
That’s the part I found extremely painful. I can’t speak for him but I felt that it was basically going to be the party line. This is one of the concessions he has to make and this is how it is going to be framed.

Well you do whaddya gotta do (Brooklyn accent)
I have never met Bp. Fellay but I sense in him a similar quality that Abp Lefebvre(still can’t spell his name right) possessed.

I met the Abp way back in 1980 in Idaho. Up to that time he was the Holiest man I had ever met. Back then I didn’t even know what the SSPX was or what troubles they had been through.

All I knew was that the Mass was powerful and reverent.
And what does that say to you?
Wait a minute, let’s look at this very carefully. It is true that he has changed his rhetoric. But is that a bad thing?

He is saying the same thing that the Holy Father and the Sacred Congregation for the Faith say. This is where every bishop should be. In reality, he’s leading by example.

Of course it’s hard for him. If one listens carefully, in between the lines, he is saying that they wrongly understood what was happening. They blamed the Council and now they realize that the problem is not the Council, but the incorrect interpretation and application of the Council. It takes a very big man and a humble man to say, “We were wrong. We judged the Council instead of the fools who ran with it and changed it.”

You mention party line. At the end of the day, in Catholicism, party line is always defined by the pope. Therefore, it’s Catholic Line. He said that as his concluding remark. He has said over the last week, several times, that he wished he had more time to think about these things, but it comes directly from the pope that this has to be settled NOW.

The Vatican has also said as much, not in so many words. One gets the impression that whatever happened at those talks, did not please the Holy Father and he has decided, “This is what the SSPX will believe and profess or they’re history.” This message was very clear in the cover letter that went with the Preamble asking Bishop Fellay to explain some points. The letter did not offer more dialogue. The letter said that if the SSPX did not accept the preamble, it would lead to a schism and it put the moral weight of that schism directly on Bishop Fellay’s shoulders.

Here we have a rather young bishop who is being told by his pope that he has to tow the line now or assume responsibility for a schism. That’s a heavy responsibility. I wouldn’t want it. But if the pope binds me to it, I cannot unbind myself.

If the pope says that you either accept this agreement or your’e in schism, there is no legal way around that. You can fight an excommunication and you may even prove that it was invalid or unjust. But you can’t find a decree of schism. Once the pope decrees that you’re in schism, you have no rights inside the Catholic Church. If you have no rights, you can’t appeal. You lost your right to appeal This is what happened to the East.

The Church at that time decided to wait a few generations before it reopened the dialogue with the East. I don’t think that Bishop Fellay wants to wait a few generations. He knows that if he waits a few generations, the SSPX will not be a society, it will be a sui iuris Church and that’s not the mission that Archbishop Fellay gave to the Society. They were not found their own Church. A schism would force them to start their own Church or to disband. Both would be very tragic for them and for the Christian world.

I get the impression that you want him to fight. As he says himself, there is a time when you have to know when to duck. This is one of them. Pope Benedict is not pulling punches or offering to continue this conversation. Nor does it appear that the current state of the SSPX continues to be an option. It seems that it’s either come into full communion with the Holy See or become a separate Church, rather than remain inside the Catholic Church in an irregular status. Bishop Fellay said that in his letter. “Rome will no longer tolerate this.” He said it because that’s what he was told.

If Rome is bluffing, it’s putting on a very good performance. It looks very serious. At some point, all of us Catholics have to bow to papal authority, unless he commands us to violate the commandments, there is no justifiable disobedience.

My heart and prayers go out to him. I would not want to be in his position, between a pope and the opposition. They never dreamed that they would find themselves in this position. I have to hand it to the Holy Father. He’s been very generous and fair, but he has also been very clear to the SSPX and to those who don’t want the SSPX back. His message is clear. This is his call to make and his making it. He’s not paying much attention to anyone on either side who is unhappy. That takes a lot of courage and conviction that you’re doing the right thing.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
I get the impression that you want him to fight.
No, I don’t want him to fight.

It is a bittersweet thing. I want him to do all he can to reconcile the SSPX to Rome. At the same time, I see the pain and fear in his eyes.

I didn’t want to post any links to one of his other talks, but there is a big difference between them.

I like how he said that he is pretty much doing it for our Holy Father and that he believes he is genuine.

I wish that could be said for everyone else they will have to deal with.
 
No, I don’t want him to fight.

It is a bittersweet thing. I want him to do all he can to reconcile the SSPX to Rome. At the same time, I see the pain and fear in his eyes.

I didn’t want to post any links to one of his other talks, but there is a big difference between them.

I like how he said that he is pretty much doing it for our Holy Father and that he believes he is genuine.

I wish that could be said for everyone else they will have to deal with.
Hi TL,

I agree with you!🙂

It is a bittersweet thing! There is something in his eyes!!! :o I can see it, I can sense it!

I wonder if he is in pain because he knows he will lose some souls along the way, or because of other reasons…:o

I will keep him in my prayers! :gopray2:

Thank you,

GOD BLESS,

PAX :highprayer:
 
No, I don’t want him to fight.

It is a bittersweet thing. I want him to do all he can to reconcile the SSPX to Rome. At the same time, I see the pain and fear in his eyes.

I didn’t want to post any links to one of his other talks, but there is a big difference between them.

I like how he said that he is pretty much doing it for our Holy Father and that he believes he is genuine.

I wish that could be said for everyone else they will have to deal with.
They will have to deal with the same people as the rest of us. We have to be very careful not to become so protective of the SSPX that we throw every other institute under the bus. The SSPX is not the only orthodox institute in the Church, nor the only one to face opposition from the left or the right. The SSPX has also dished it out.

Part of its problem is going to come from people who believe that the world began with the Beatles. That group is going to be very hostile to anything that remotely smells “old”.

The other part of their problem is going to come from nice people whom they turned into enemies along the way. Among them are some of the large religious orders. They snubbed them, because these orders would not stand up for truth as the SSPX alleged. In fact these orders did stand up for truth. They stood by the truth that their founders taught them. They ruffled many feathers of some very orthodox people who are not their enemy. They simply wanted nothing to do with the movement, because it compromised them with their founders, it compromised the internal life of their communities, compromised their apostolates and compromised their relationship with the Holy See.

As much as I dislike goat cheese, I will not compromise my community and the work of my community by taking on the diocesan bishop on this matter. It’s not important enough. Our religious life and our apostolate to the voiceless is much more important than the flavor of cheese. When the local SSPX throws mud in your face, because you won’t make a public statement on this issue, you’re going to be very apprehensive having them move in next door.

All of these pieces of the puzzle are important. I truly believe that Bishop Fellay is conscious of this now, more than he was as a young man. Remember, this was a kid who was consecrated a bishop. He was 30 years old, young, energetic and idealistic. Today, he is middle age, probably tired and much more realistic. The reality is that he’s facing a frightening situation. As I said above, I don’t think that the Catholic Church is going to let him get out of this one with an irregular status. If he comes back to Rome, some of his own are going to be very upset. However, if he does not come back to Rome, he may never have another chance. There is a chance that he may not die a Catholic. Wouldn’t you be scared if the pope held that threat over your head? I’d be terrified.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
Hi TL,

I agree with you!🙂

It is a bittersweet thing! There is something in his eyes!!! :o I can see it, I can sense it!

I wonder if he is in pain because he knows he will lose some souls along the way, or because of other reasons…:o

I will keep him in my prayers! :gopray2:

Thank you,

GOD BLESS,

PAX :highprayer:
He won’t lose souls. We have to get over this idea that the bishops, the clergy, the catechist and the milkman lose souls. Souls are lost when people knowingly follow error. God never holds anyone accountable for what one does not know or does not understand, even when it’s wrong. He’s not like us, looking for every opportunity to stick it to us.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
 
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