SSPX isn't schismatic

[coralewisjr]

JKirkLVNV:

Yes, caution, Dum, but you keep fighting the fight. I’ve often though,“We should just ignore these types,” but then consider: there are innnocents and honest seekers who read these forums. We have an obligation to them to combat lies with truth, fiction with fact. If these two can tag team, then so can the rest of us.

Would you call saints extremists?

Let me modify what I said earlier. I will agree with the Pope as long as he teaches the truth: continues to teach that contraception, abortion, consubstantiation, human cloning, stem cell research, divorce, sola fide, sola scriptura, “once saved always saved” etc. are wrong and apostolic succession, the rosary, the communion of saints, etc. are right. If any pope starts going against the core teachings of the Church, I will suspect that he is an antipope and pray more for him than I already do.

SSPX isn’t sedevacantist.

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

 

[dumspirospero]

Even if they are not…which they might very well be…they still ignore the authority of The Pope, which is just as bad…but let us assume hypothetically they are not sedevacantist…they are STILL IN SCHISM because of their other actions…I explained why earlier in this thread…Being a Sedevacantist is not the only thing that will cause you to be in schism or excommunicated.

coralewisjr:

SSPX isn’t sedevacantist.

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

 

[JKirkLVNV]

coralewisjr:

Would you call saints extremists?

Let me modify what I said earlier. I will agree with the Pope as long as he teaches the truth: continues to teach that contraception, abortion, consubstantiation, human cloning, stem cell research, divorce, sola fide, sola scriptura, “once saved always saved” etc. are wrong and apostolic succession, the rosary, the communion of saints, etc. are right. If any pope starts going against the core teachings of the Church, I will suspect that he is an antipope and pray more for him than I already do.

SSPX isn’t sedevacantist.

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

As Dum pointed out, in terms of “lip service,” SSPX isn’t sedevacantist, but for all practical purposes they may as well be. They don’t obey, they won’t come back into communion, they will not submit. It doesn’t do much good, then, NOT being a sedevacantist formally, if you are informally.

As for the things you list, the Church nor the Magisterium has ever failed to teach these things.

As for saints, only the popes hold the authority of the keys.

 

[coralewisjr]

dumspirospero:

Even if they are not…which they might very well be…they still ignore the authority of The Pope, which is just as bad…but let us assume hypothetically they are not sedevacantist…they are STILL IN SCHISM because of their other actions…I explained why earlier in this thread…Being a Sedevacantist is not the only thing that will cause you to be in schism or excommunicated.

The SSPX loves the Pope. We (DH and I and the members of our church) were among the many who prayed and prayed for the cardinals while they elected Pope Benedict XVI. The parishioners at our parish are some of the holiest people I know - modest, faithful to Theology of the Body teachings, daily rosary pray-ers, concerned for everyone around them. I could say so much more. I’m afraid that it’s impossible to convince you (except with prayer) and I regret that. God bless you.

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

 

[coralewisjr]

JKirkLVNV:

As for saints, only the popes hold the authority of the keys.

I know that. St. Catherine of Siena, my Confirmation saint, was alive during the Great Schism and God used her to help end the GS. I am faithful to the teachings of the Church. Please stop calling the SSPX schismatic. It’s a lie. God bless you!

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

 

[JKirkLVNV]

coralewisjr:

The SSPX loves the Pope. We (DH and I and the members of our church) were among the many who prayed and prayed for the cardinals while they elected Pope Benedict XVI. The parishioners at our parish are some of the holiest people I know - modest, faithful to Theology of the Body teachings, daily rosary pray-ers, concerned for everyone around them. I could say so much more. I’m afraid that it’s impossible to convince you (except with prayer) and I regret that. God bless you.

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

All undoubtedly true, but still schismatic. A child may well love his mother, but if he disobeys her, he cannot hold up the excuse of,“Yes, I disobeyed, and I’m going to continue to do so, but remember I love you.” We’ve been admonished to have nothing to do with the SSPX. If we do, we’re being disobedient. You knew all of this before you started this thread.

 

[dumspirospero]

I don’t doubt you all are very holy and I am sure you pray a lot and that you adhere to the teachings on birth control, etc…but you all are outside of The Church at the present moment due to other actions in which you are not adhering to the teachings of The Church or The Pope…but you don’t have to be…it can begin with you today and your husband…if you love The Pope so much…then you and other lay members get together and talk to the hierarchy of your organization…press them for reunification with Rome…urge them to make concessions with The Pope…I am sure The Pope would be willing to lift the excommunications and end the Schism if you all would totally submit to his authority. I would love to see you all back in the Church…it hurts me that you all are in schism. It can start with you…this schism doesn’t have to go on.

coralewisjr:

The SSPX loves the Pope. We (DH and I and the members of our church) were among the many who prayed and prayed for the cardinals while they elected Pope Benedict XVI. The parishioners at our parish are some of the holiest people I know - modest, faithful to Theology of the Body teachings, daily rosary pray-ers, concerned for everyone around them. I could say so much more. I’m afraid that it’s impossible to convince you (except with prayer) and I regret that. God bless you.

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

 

[kmktexas]

Luke-Jr:

Their actions are no different from those of every Catholic priest prior to V2.

I want to joint the “tag team”.

Luke,

You cannot really be saying that every Catholic priest prior to V2 heard Confessions and witnessed marriages without the proper facilities from their local ordinary? Or that they refused obedience to the local ordinary regarding the saying of Masses, the opening of Churches and of schools? Or that they all refused to implement any of the various changes to the Mass prior to the Missal of Paul VI?

Some of the very things that the SSPX decries were already popping up (without permission) in parishes before V2 (altar girls, communion in the hand etc.)

It is this whole idea of everything before 1968 (ish) was grand and everything after was tainted that is warping some people’s ability to see. I have BTW seen the same problem with some posters here that seem to think that the “real Church” was born in the 70s and nothing good ever happened before the first guitar Mass.

The Mass is good. The Mass is holy. The Mass is the source and summit of our faith. Is, was and always will be.

It is not love of the Latin Mass that makes the actions schismatic. It is persistant disobedience to the authority of the Church and the willful misleading of faithful Catholics away from the Magesterium.

 

[Therese_Martin]

General reminder:

A question was raised to the moderation staff on whether the SSPX is a banned topic. It is not. Sedevacantism (i.e., the theory that the chair of Peter is vacant) is a banned topic unless the Church itself recognizes that the papal chair is vacant – as it did last month during the interregnum between John Paul II’s death and Benedict XVI’s election. The SSPX is a schismatic sect, as JPII made clear, but it is not sedevacantist.

Notice:

This thread is closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.