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dizzy_dave
Guest
Since the SSPX Traditionalist Latin Catholics are a Schismatic Group is the Consecration of the bread and wine valid? Does the Bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ or not?
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ServusChristi
Guest
The SSPX Masses are valid, but not licit. In other words, transubstantiation does take place, but the Priests of the Society do not have the permission of the Church.
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quintessential5
Guest
Yes, It is similar to the various Orthodox churches such as Greek and Russian Orthodox who do not follow the Bishop of Rome but whose sacraments are valid.
Likewise, even some Protestant churches have valid baptisms because they observe the proper form of baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
Likewise, even some Protestant churches have valid baptisms because they observe the proper form of baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
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Stylite
Guest
Quite correct. Another good question would be whether their priests can validly confer Confession.
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ServusChristi
Guest
I believe that the Priests of the Society can validly offer the Sacrament of Confession (though they are not supposed to until they reconcile with the Pope). In terms of marriage, I am not sure what the answer is. I’ve heard that the Society gives annulments and that does not seem legitimate.
Peace be with you,
Ryan
Peace be with you,
Ryan
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
Ryan - RE I believe that the Priests of the Society can validly offer the Sacrament of Confession From what I have read a priest must have delegated power from the bishop of the area to hear valid Confessions or witness valid marriages. In case of emergency, imminent death, it is presumed that the bishop would give the power were he aware of the situation. Otherwise the rites are invalid and the sacrament is not conferred.
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ServusChristi
Guest
Joe,
The SSPX Priests are under the Bishops of the Society who are validly but illicitly ordained. The SSPX does not have jurisdiction, so it would seem that this would cover them. Again, it is all illicit though until they reconcile with Rome.
Peace,
Ryan
The SSPX Priests are under the Bishops of the Society who are validly but illicitly ordained. The SSPX does not have jurisdiction, so it would seem that this would cover them. Again, it is all illicit though until they reconcile with Rome.
Peace,
Ryan
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dizzy_dave
Guest
What if the priest was ordained before Vatican 2 and WAS a faithful priest to Rome until Vatican 2?
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St_Veronica
Guest
It’s valid but not licit because the priest is now under the authority of the SSPX Bishop.
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Trad_Catholic
Guest
So its basically the same as a Novus Ordo, but without the irreverence and sacrilege.
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beng
Guest
The irreverence and sacrilege is in the illicitness of the Mass.
So there.
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Dr.Colossus
Guest
It’s always seemed very ironic to me that the SSPXers seem to care so much about liturgical abuses and irreverence, yet they commit the most irreverent act of all – celebration of the most Holy Eucharist against the wishes of Christ’s Church. Illicit consecration is worse than a thousand Novus Ordo guitar Masses.
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Catholic_Eagle
Guest
A guitar Mass is valid? Yes at some of those things they have soda and crackers for the Body and Blood of Christ. That’ll never be valid in my book. Or what about those parishes which have breadbaking comittees for Mass. Do you think that bread is always valid matter for the Sacrament? Just because these Masses are celebrated with the permission of the bishop doesn’t make them valid. Sadly most bishops allow Voodoo,“Black culture”,clown,gay,Mother earth,ecuminical, and other aberrations are valid yet,Mass said by SSPX priests said is illicit. Is it that bishops have only authority in dealing with SSPX’ers but what about all these sick aberrations which are called Masses,liturgical committees,altar girls,eucharistic ministers, and other things. [Detroit has a valid “gay Mass” where a couple hundred scandulous sinners receive the Eucharist but the SSPX is illicit]
Also SSPX preists reject sedevacantism. SSPX Masses include the Pope’s and Bishop’s name in the Canon of Mass.SSPX priests are under the authority of their diocesean bishops not the SSPX bishops.[does a jesuit bishop have aithority over jesuits?] SSPX priests kneel down and kiss the diocesean bishop’s ring. How many other priests are this loyal to their bishops?
Also SSPX preists reject sedevacantism. SSPX Masses include the Pope’s and Bishop’s name in the Canon of Mass.SSPX priests are under the authority of their diocesean bishops not the SSPX bishops.[does a jesuit bishop have aithority over jesuits?] SSPX priests kneel down and kiss the diocesean bishop’s ring. How many other priests are this loyal to their bishops?
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system
Guest
Catholic Eagle:
No, I don’t think so. It strengthens your argument to make this claim, but it’s just not true.
Calling them “sick aberrations” makes for a nice frenzied fire-and-brimstone argument. But again, it’s a blatant exaggeration. Nothing “wrong” with EMHC’s. Or even altar girls where they are approved - although I personally don’t care for them. But you see, I know my opinion doesn’t count.
Huh? One of us is confused now… and I’m not sure which. I really don’t think SSPX priests operate with the blessing of diocesan bishops. If they did, why would we have the mess that we do. You didn’t mean to say FSSP, did you?
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Catholic_Eagle
Guest
Yes they do allow these things
Black Culture Mass here:
www.stalphonsusrock.org/downloads/1024_Photo001.jpg
“gay Mass”
www.dignitydetroit.org
Black Culture Mass here:
www.stalphonsusrock.org/downloads/1024_Photo001.jpg
“gay Mass”
www.dignitydetroit.org
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system
Guest
Catholic Eagle:
What about the other things I noted? Are you still asserting that SSPX priests obey diocesan bishops?
You said “most bishops allow Voodoo,“Black culture”,clown,gay,Mother earth,ecuminical, and other aberrations” . You’ve noted one oddity in each of two dioceses. That’s far from “most bishops”.
What about the other things I noted? Are you still asserting that SSPX priests obey diocesan bishops?
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Ham1
Guest
Joe Kelley:
Although, the SSPX mass is valid and illicit, confession to an SSPX priest (unless in danger of death) is INVALID and illicit.
This is correct. Confession to an SSPX priest is not valid. The faculty to absolve sins is granted by the Church. The faculties of the SSPX priests and bishops are suspended by the Church and, as such, they do NOT have the ability to forgive sins.
Although, the SSPX mass is valid and illicit, confession to an SSPX priest (unless in danger of death) is INVALID and illicit.
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The_Dead_Bishop
Guest
Catholic Eagle:
EDITED FOR BREVITY. Yes, you're quite right. And after I kiss the Bishop's ring.. I kiss his foot, unworthy as I am. I don't understand the animosity between the " faithfull " of SSPX and Rome. The people in the Society just want to keep the Faith and remain Catholic.
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pnewton
Guest
The Dead Bishop:
Then why don’t they. The church is still there for them, where the Bishop of Rome is.
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The_Dead_Bishop
Guest
We don’t deny the Bishop of Rome. We think he’s walking toward quick sand, and we don’t want to perish in the mire.It makes me extremely cautious when I see the " abuses " going on in the Catholic churches and I know the Tridentine Mass is the " solid " ground of Tradition, tried and true for over 500 years. " New " Mass just sounds risky to me.
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