T
The_Dead_Bishop
Guest
Catholic Eagle:
This is most unfortunate.
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P
pnewton
Guest
If he walks into quicksand, then I’ll walk in with him. My faith is in the promise of Jesus who promised the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church.
T
The_Dead_Bishop
Guest
Even when Christ tells you you’re walking into quick sand and wants you to stop?Dominus Vobiscum.
C
Cherub
Guest
The consecration does take place, but who can receive it??? Only those SSPXs who have gone to confession at a real Priest who has jurisdiction for the Sacrament of Confession(Penance, Reconcilliation/whathaveyou)
See, the SSPX priest can’t licitly hear confession or absolve anyone of sin. If you got to take the Holy Eucharist in a state of mortal sin…well, you do the math.
See, the SSPX priest can’t licitly hear confession or absolve anyone of sin. If you got to take the Holy Eucharist in a state of mortal sin…well, you do the math.
C
Catholic_Eagle
Guest
The Dead Bishop:
Well the kissing of the foot is reserved for the Pope. It traditionally was never done to bishops and reserved to the Pope.
T
The_Dead_Bishop
Guest
Catholic Eagle:
I think I would faint into unconciousness before I got to kissing His ring!!
P
pnewton
Guest
The Dead Bishop:
Fair enough. If I ever have a true vision and Jesus himself comes with specific revelation for me, then I would do what he asks. Do you have these visions often?
P
pnewton
Guest
For more information on the SSPX schism:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=38&highlight=SSPX
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=38&highlight=SSPX
D
deogratias
Guest
So I ask you once again, since there is a valid and licit Tridentine Mass in Seattle, approved by the Bishop, why do you go to the SSPX Mass?
A
agname
Guest
The Holy See has repeatedly said that Catholics are not to attend illicit Masses…except under one exception and that is there are no licit Masses available.
The priests of the Society of St. Pius X are validly ordained…but they are suspended from exercising their priestly functions. To the extent that they adhere to the schism of the late Archbishop Lefebvre…they are also excommunicated.
I personally don’t recognize any schismatic group. You’re either in union with Rome…or not. To me…the SSPX are no different than the Anglicans, etc.
J
JoJo_MIse
Guest
We all owe a debt of thanks to the SSPX, especially Archbishop Lafebvre!! This statement may amaze you or disturb you.
I do not attend anything of the SSPX at this moment.
Have any of you ever looked into the history of this group? You need to do research to understand why they were formed and what there agenda is. IT is just to much for me attempt to put forth in a thread! I suggest that you read the book: Aplolgio por Archbishop Lefebvre by Michael Davies, Vol !.
This group has frozen the church as it was before the changes. Maybe, I should say preserved it! It was initially fully approved by Rome. One result is that many of us can still enjoy the Tridentine Mass. The indult was the result of difficulties between Rome and the SSPX. The Fraternity of St. Peter came forth from them to esccape the veil of excommunication!
Back around 1980, I was invited to attend an ordination at there seminary . Of course, the Bishop was to be present. I refuse because I heard that he was a renegade. My friend said to me come and see for yourself. So, grudgingly, I went. That visit was like coming home!!! Priests were in cassocks, as well as the seminrians. I cried when I attend my first Tridentine Mass in years. I was lilterally back in all that I lived and loved about my Church. I was thrilled. Then, I saw and met the Bishop. Wow, I was totally amazed at His Presence. His Ceremony and Homily were outstanding. We made a circle around the new priests and knelt down. We then Kissed their hands; the hands that were just consecrated to say Mass. Then the priest in turn gave us individually his first blessing. Then, I had the oppurtunity to speak one on one with the Bishop. I kissed his ring and received his blessing and went away realizing that something was wrong in the Church. He did not want to consecrate any bishops, ever. He wanted to reconcile with Rome. Then mistrust of Rome, forced his hand and so did the fact that all the years of his work may be allowed to fall prey to those who hate the old wayafter he died. So, He went forth in GOOD CONSCIENCE, yet sadness, consecrating several Bishops. Bishops can consecrate other Bishops, but this is usually reserved for the POPE. I say that he did this in GOOD CONSCIENCE. Conscience is our responsiblity for it is there that we will judged. I in good Conscience realize that there is not doubt that all their Sacraments are valid. For if the Scrament of Holy Orders is valid, then why wouldn’t the others be valid? There was a confirmation done in Hawaii a few years back where the local Bishop excommunicated all whe attended and rendered the confirmation invalid. Well, Rome reversed this decision and basically said that the Bishop was wrong.
Look up the History and investigate on your own before you tear up anything or anybody. This group is the closest to us in the area of Schisms. I personally love what they are trying to do. They are committed to preserving the Mass and all our precious traditions.
I do not attend anything of the SSPX at this moment.
Have any of you ever looked into the history of this group? You need to do research to understand why they were formed and what there agenda is. IT is just to much for me attempt to put forth in a thread! I suggest that you read the book: Aplolgio por Archbishop Lefebvre by Michael Davies, Vol !.
This group has frozen the church as it was before the changes. Maybe, I should say preserved it! It was initially fully approved by Rome. One result is that many of us can still enjoy the Tridentine Mass. The indult was the result of difficulties between Rome and the SSPX. The Fraternity of St. Peter came forth from them to esccape the veil of excommunication!
Back around 1980, I was invited to attend an ordination at there seminary . Of course, the Bishop was to be present. I refuse because I heard that he was a renegade. My friend said to me come and see for yourself. So, grudgingly, I went. That visit was like coming home!!! Priests were in cassocks, as well as the seminrians. I cried when I attend my first Tridentine Mass in years. I was lilterally back in all that I lived and loved about my Church. I was thrilled. Then, I saw and met the Bishop. Wow, I was totally amazed at His Presence. His Ceremony and Homily were outstanding. We made a circle around the new priests and knelt down. We then Kissed their hands; the hands that were just consecrated to say Mass. Then the priest in turn gave us individually his first blessing. Then, I had the oppurtunity to speak one on one with the Bishop. I kissed his ring and received his blessing and went away realizing that something was wrong in the Church. He did not want to consecrate any bishops, ever. He wanted to reconcile with Rome. Then mistrust of Rome, forced his hand and so did the fact that all the years of his work may be allowed to fall prey to those who hate the old wayafter he died. So, He went forth in GOOD CONSCIENCE, yet sadness, consecrating several Bishops. Bishops can consecrate other Bishops, but this is usually reserved for the POPE. I say that he did this in GOOD CONSCIENCE. Conscience is our responsiblity for it is there that we will judged. I in good Conscience realize that there is not doubt that all their Sacraments are valid. For if the Scrament of Holy Orders is valid, then why wouldn’t the others be valid? There was a confirmation done in Hawaii a few years back where the local Bishop excommunicated all whe attended and rendered the confirmation invalid. Well, Rome reversed this decision and basically said that the Bishop was wrong.
Look up the History and investigate on your own before you tear up anything or anybody. This group is the closest to us in the area of Schisms. I personally love what they are trying to do. They are committed to preserving the Mass and all our precious traditions.
M
misericordie
Guest
JoJo MIse:
No matter what some TRY to make others believe, the SSPX is NOT in Communion with the Holy Father, nor the Vatican, and considers the Novus Ordo Mass INVALID!!! It is one thing, to like and respect or even prefer the Tridentine Latin Mass of the INDULT, and it is another thing to deny the Novus Ordo mass is Valid, and deny ALL of the 16 documents of Vatican II. The POPE HIMSELF excommunicated the founder of SSPX because he went on to oradin Bishops without the Pope’s authorization, though he was warned. The SSPX group memmers I have met(I have attended their gatherings etc, in the PAST) also seem for the most part VERY fanatical and elitist. The ones I and my friends met when we went to thier retreat center in CONNECTICUT seem very closed minded and clickish, they also treated the people who were there of different ethnic backgrounds very COLDY and made sure they stayed AWAY TOTALLY from I and the other people there of HISPANIC origin.
M
misericordie
Guest
NOPE, because they don’t have the FACULTIES of the VALID eccesiastical authorities. One should NEVER go to confession withan SSPX priest. No faculties=no confession becuase they do not have permission. There is another laughable thing and it is the so called: “independent” priests. there is CANONICALLY no such thing as an INDEPENDENT priest who is his own Pope, Bishop, and priest. ALL priests must have a superior, and if in a diocese, he MUST have permission from the local Bishop to even offer Mass, etc. if he plans to saty there. Also, does he have a HOME Bishop who MUST give him permission to be in another diocese, and then be ACCEPTED to function in the diocese he is visiting.
It is amazing that liberals have done so much damage to the Church, liturgical abuses etc. BUT the catholics who promote dosobedience to the POPE and HOLY SEE, and DISREGARD THE NEW CODE OF CANON LAW(1983) do as MUCH damage too!!
A
Auntie_M
Guest
Our Pope has said they are “in a irregular state” and the bishops consecrated by lefebvre are excommunicated.
They are in the same “gray” area as the Protestants. Their priest are “ordained” but not legally ordained** Roman Catholic Priest**.
Therein lies the difference.
A number of Protestant ministers also say that they are the only true christians left, that they have “preserved” the true faith. I think also the Mormons believe that they are the only true christians and have “restored” the true church.
How many true churches are there?
There is STILL only one Roman Catholic Church and her Pope. If you fight against her, you are on the wrong side of the fence.
They are in the same “gray” area as the Protestants. Their priest are “ordained” but not legally ordained** Roman Catholic Priest**.
Therein lies the difference.
A number of Protestant ministers also say that they are the only true christians left, that they have “preserved” the true faith. I think also the Mormons believe that they are the only true christians and have “restored” the true church.
How many true churches are there?
There is STILL only one Roman Catholic Church and her Pope. If you fight against her, you are on the wrong side of the fence.
M
maurin
Guest
Oh M,
don’t you tire of spreading mis-information? (although you did get one thing right: the canonical status of the SSPX IS irregular)
Cardinal Hoyos and His Holiness certainly do not share your assessment of the situation.
protestants are not in Communion with Rome. This is fact.
The Holy Father, in his accompanying letter to the Motu Proprio, stated that the situation with the SSPX as an internal situation of reconciliation within the CHurch. Since when do “internal” and “within” mean outside of Communion with Rome?
Cardinal Hoyos has stated, though he cannot recommend it, the faithful may fulfill their Sunday obligation at the SSPX Masses.
Why would either say what they have said if the SSPX are outside of Communion with Rome?
Please, be accurate in your statements, although I suspect only those thoroughly unfamiliar with the situation might ‘take your word for it.’ Unfortunately.
P
pnewton
Guest
While asking all your questions, let me add one for her. Why re-open a thread dead for four years?
E
ethelzguy
Guest
So, why not accurately answer the question? Is the consecration at an SSPX Mass valid to a non-SSPX individual who is in full Communion with Rome?
M
maurin
Guest
I’m sorry ethelzguy, I assumed you would have read the response if you quoted it:
please, ethelzguy, restating the obvious is tiring.
P
pnewton
Guest
Even when the faithful were advised they were to have nothing to do with the SSPX masses, the validity of the consecration remained and was never an issue.
M
maurin
Guest
but let us not forget that Cardinal Hoyos has stated categorically (meaning, out of love for the Traditional Teachings and Liturgy of the Church) that one may fulfill one’s Sunday obligation at such a Mass without committing sin
very true.
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