SSPX not likely to 'come home'

[TrueLight]

Jam,
I honestly do not think anyone is willfully trying to destroy the Faith, nor will God allow it!

Please, people, lets stop the mudslinging from both sides, and discuss the facts, and unfortunate realities.

Thank you! (OP)

Ok.

 

[jam070406]

Jam,
I honestly do not think anyone is willfully trying to destroy the Faith, nor will God allow it!

Please, people, lets stop the mudslinging from both sides, and discuss the facts, and unfortunate realities.

Thank you! (OP)

It is the facts Feet! There are large numbers of open dissenters within the Church. It’s not mud slinging, it’s the truth.

 

[Mike30]

Interestingly, Archbishop Di Noia says the church is in fact in crisis in this recent interview.

This is a good interview which acknowledges some of the concerns of the SSPX but also is firm that the SSPX needs to reconcile.

Di Noia Interview

Should be interesting to see what the upcoming months bring.

I myself will continue to pray.

Good interview very frank and stimulating. I will be willing to wager however that some of the more progressive among us will be quite upset with it especially since he does say that the SSPX is probably right about some things that they are concerned with.

 

[Stylites]

Are you praying for reconciliation or praying for the hammer to come down?

Such as the stick which OurBeloved is calling to be used against priests? As if those who preach love rather than fire and brimstone are somehow being disobedient to Christ and to the Holy Father.

 

[TrueLight]

Good interview very frank and stimulating. I will be willing to wager however that some of the more progressive among us will be quite upset with it especially since he does say that the SSPX is probably right about some things that they are concerned with.

That’s why I like the interview. It’s realistic.

You can tell the Archibishop is going to say to the SSPX, “Alright enough. It’s time to be reconciled.” At the same time, he acknowledges some things that some people are just not willing to acknowledge but prefer to paint these holy priests as heretics.

He seems to be pretty blunt. (He’s from the Bronx. )

I can see him now.

“You want us to say Vatican II is full of errors? Fuggedabout it.”

"But I give you this. There’s a whole lotta misinterpretation and abuses going on. "

I hope he will be able to persuade them that they can do a lot more for the Church when they are regularized.

 

[Big_Feet]

It is the facts Feet! There are large numbers of open dissenters within the Church.

I agree that there are large numbers of dissenters within the Church, and remember, one (a mere one of these organizations) is the SSPX.

What I take exception with you saying is that they (the progressive dissenters) are trying to in fact destroy the Church. I think that each (while right or wrong) is trying to “move” the Church in their way. It is the response of the Church to this “tugging” that is God’s will, or the Church is not an organ of God!

 

[TrueLight]

I agree that there are large numbers of dissenters within the Church, and remember, one (a mere one of these organizations) is the SSPX.

What I take exception with you saying is that they (the progressive dissenters) are trying to in fact destroy the Church. I think that each (while right or wrong) is trying to “move” the Church in their way. It is the response of the Church to this “tugging” that is God’s will, or the Church is not an organ of God!

The difference is that one side is attempting to go against traditional Catholic teaching (contraception, female priests), while the other is attempting to follow traditional Catholic teaching.

 

[Portrait]

Interestingly, Archbishop Di Noia says the church is in fact in Crisis in this recent interview.

This is a good interview which acknowledges some of the concerns of the SSPX but also is firm that the SSPX needs to reconcile.

Di Noia Interview

Should be interesting to see what the upcoming months bring.

I myself will continue to pray.

Dear TrueLight,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well. Thankyou for the above.

The Church, as G.K. Chesterton said, should have stability when everything else is changing. This is surely obvious since God’s truths are not subject to change or modification.

There should, dear friend, be no misguided people within the Catholic Church, established upon the rock of St. Peter and its holy teaching guaranteed by the presence of the Holy Spirit. That Church has unity and universality from the first day of Pentecost. False teachers have unrelentlessy tried to divide the family of faith and this fact is that the very centre of the present crisis of the Church. Liberal Bishops, priests and religious have done irreparable harm to our beloved Church by any means at their disposal, short of kicking over the traces completely and finding themselves censured by Rome.

Let us pray to God earnestly, dear friend, that the SSPX may be reconciled to Holy Mother Church, for they will spiritually enrich us and will undoubtedly be a blessing to the entire Catholic Church in these Laodicean times.

God bless, dear friend.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[ByzCathCantor]

[DiNoia] seems to be pretty blunt.

He’s from the Bronx!

He seems more pragmatic than blunt. It does not appear that he was appointed to whip anyone into shape, per se. Rather, his ability to remain firm while being able to see and acknowledge both sides of the coin should be an asset in the case of the SSPX, whether or not successful.

His Holiness seems to have made a surprising yet enlightened choice, all things considered.

 

[TrueLight]

Let us pray to God earnestly, dear friend, that the SSPX may be reconciled to Holy Mother Church, for they will spiritually enrich us and will undoubtedly be a blessing to the entire Catholic Church in these Laodicean times.

Amen.

 

[triumphguy]

Surprisingly Archbishop DiNoia himself says the Church is in crisis.

Curycool, in further response to your comment that the SSPX has been messing around (I won’t use the term you used), during this recent interview, the Archibishop was asked what good the SSPX can bring to the Church. This is what he says,

How interesting.

The interview is a good interview. I don’t agree with everything he says, but he seems to take a balanced approach, which is always very important. He sympathizes with some of the concerns of the SSPX but is firm that they need to be reconciled, a viewpoint I agree with.

Check out the interview here:Di Noia Interview

May the prayers of those without malicious intent rise as a sweet savor to our Lord.

But, he says the Church is in crisis because of bad theology, not because of Vatican II.

 

[TrueLight]

But, he says the Church is in crisis because of bad theology, not because of Vatican II.

I’m just referring to the part about the crisis as it has often been said that is not true.

Why would the Secretary of the Congregation of Divine Worship say that Vatican II caused a crisis?

I think this comment is interesting and deep.

Traditionalists have to be converted from seeing the Council as rupture and discontinuity.

This is a distinction [historian Roberto] de Mattei makes. The Council was experienced as a rupture, but doctrinally and theologically it has to be read in continuity — otherwise you must just as well throw in the towel.

 

[triumphguy]

I’m just referring to the part about the crisis as it has often been said that is not true.

Why would the Secretary of the Congregation of Divine Worship say that Vatican II caused a crisis?

I see.

And I agree:thumbsup:

It’s a good and very hopeful article! Hopeful for the whole Church not just the SSPX issue.

 

[Big_Feet]

The difference is that one side is attempting to go against traditional Catholic teaching (contraception, female priests), while the other is attempting to follow traditional Catholic teaching.

And in the specific case of the SSPX, they ordained bishops without the approval of the Roman pontiff (required by canon law) in order to “force” their issue.
The Church has not accepted or endorsed either side, in fact has denounced all mentioned (contraception, female priests, or illicit ordination of bishops). While some individuals within the Church (both “sides”) err, the Church, nor her official teachings has not.

TrueLight, As I have mentioned to you privately, I have no issues with anyone who is following the will of the Church and God, and doing it appropriately, but I do not respect anyone or any organization “within” the Church that is disobedient to her. The Church will discern what is God’s will, not any individual or small sect coming from within, or without.

I pray for those who are disobedient, that they may truly come back into the “fold” of His Truth and His Church!

 

[triumphguy]

It;s telling that in this article (ncregister.com/daily-news/archbishop-dinoia-ecclesia-dei-and-the-society-of-st.-pius-x/) Archbisop DiNoia says he prays for the “conversion” of the Traditionalists:

It’s my instinct; remember that until Benedict said in December 2005 in his address to the Curia, in which he made his famous discourse about hermeneutic of continuity, you couldn’t even talk about these things. So Benedict has liberated us for the first time.
You can now criticize [theologians Cardinal Henri-Marie] De Lubac, [Cardinal Yves] Congar, [Father Marie-Dominique] Chenu. And many young people are writing dissertations and books that were somehow impossible before. So I would say that the dominant progressivist reading of the Council is in retreat. It’s never been in retreat before. But insistence on continuity — they have to embrace that too.

Traditionalists have to be converted from seeing the Council as rupture and discontinuity.

This is a distinction [historian Roberto] de Mattei makes. The Council was experienced as a rupture, but doctrinally and theologically it has to be read in continuity — otherwise you must just as well throw in the towel.

 

[TrueLight]

It;s telling that in this article (ncregister.com/daily-news/archbishop-dinoia-ecclesia-dei-and-the-society-of-st.-pius-x/) Archbisop DiNoia says he prays for the “conversion” of the Traditionalists:

Right.

As I said, I don’t agree with everything but I still think it’s a good article.

 

[curlycool89]

Are you praying for reconciliation or praying for the hammer to come down?

If the SSPX is declared in schism, will you be one of the ones cheering in your seminary or one of the ones praying for their souls?

I’ve said time and time again that I want the home (everyone, actually).

I think the real question is whether the SSPX wants to come home. Actions speak much louder then words, and their actions have time and against said otherwise.

Of course, progressives want them to go away so they can destroy the Faith without a fight.

Yes, it must be a “progressive” plot. Because the Pope and Cardinal Levada are progressives, right?

Curycool, in further response to your comment that the SSPX has been messing around (I won’t use the term you used), during this recent interview, the Archibishop was asked what good the SSPX can bring to the Church. This is what he says,

I don’t disagree. But first of all they need to commit to putting both feet in the door already!

The difference is that one side is attempting to go against traditional Catholic teaching (contraception, female priests), while the other is attempting to follow traditional Catholic teaching.

When did disobeying and thumbing your nose at the Holy Father become a traditional teaching?

 

[Stylites]

Let us pray to God earnestly, dear friend, that the SSPX may be reconciled to Holy Mother Church, for they will spiritually enrich us and will undoubtedly be a blessing to the entire Catholic Church in these Laodicean times.

No, dissidents and disobedients are not a blessing. Reconciliation itself is a blessing.

 

[anp1215]

To pass by a licit Mass in order to attend an illicit one would be a case of worshipping worship rather than worshipping God.

I agree. I really don’t get it either. Praying for the reconciliation to occur. I would love to attend at one of their chapels but I will not unless they are reconciled.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Are you praying for reconciliation or praying for the hammer to come down?

Hammer. Seriously, they have been very disobedient and rebellious. Nothing has changed since 1988. I’m all for unity, but we shouldn’t be coddling rebellion. As a father going through the terrible two right now, I will tell you that giving in to the whims and demands by someone who cries incessantly will only raise a spoiled brat. The SSPX should be formally kicked out and tell them, “we’ll be waiting for you with open arms when you are ready to accept OUR terms.”

If the SSPX is declared in schism, will you be one of the ones cheering in your seminary or one of the ones praying for their souls?

Why do you think people will be cheering? This is not a sports competition where defeat of the other team is cause for celebration. People like myself are calling for a formal excommunication or schism because what they have displayed so far is not good for the entire Church.

Interestingly, Archbishop Di Noia says the church is in fact in crisis in this recent interview.

Can you tell me of a time when the Church was not in a crisis in its 2000 year history? I think people should stop pretending that the Church was perfect and immaculate from Pentecost 33AD to 1962. The Church have gone through worse times than the last 50 years.

This is a good interview which acknowledges some of the concerns of the SSPX but also is firm that the SSPX needs to reconcile.

Everyone needs to reconcile. But reconciliation should be done in repentance and humility. Something I don’t see the SSPX are displaying publicly. And it needs to be public because they’ve hurt so many people publicly.

I myself will continue to pray.

Never stop praying no matter what.