SSPX not likely to 'come home'

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Definitely. That’s why cities like Chicago offer the Mass in over 20 languages.
I still don’t know why there is no regular Filipino Mass here in Vancouver when over half, literally, of parishioners are Filipino immigrants. But a friend of mine told me maybe because if ever Mass with Filipinos are in the Filipino (or Tagalog) language, then all the other non-Filipinos have no Masses to go to 😃
 
Catholicism in North America is increased by immigrants.
Most of these do not know what they are getting themselves into. If they care about their children’s spiritual welbeing they should not raise them in these two countries if they could possibly help it.
 
By your comment you admit that there is serious trouble with Europe and America. Even the Faith in Latin America is falling away, as Pope Benedict just addressed. Pope Benedict’s concern over the Faith in Europe, which he has addressed many times and his reaching out to the Russian Orthodox Church to help combat the onslaught of secularism must be just his own narrow view.
Dear jam070406,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

It should not really surprise us, dear friend, that the current crisis within our midst is quite unparalled with what has gone previously, for St. Paul predicted that in the ‘last days’, that is to say this Messianic era in which we live, things would get progressively worse, not better - “evil men and imposters will go from bad to worse, deceivers and deceived” (II Tim. 3: 13, emphasis mine). Thus whilst opposition to the authentic Catholic faith will always be the characteristic of the Gospel age, and men should be neither surprised nor dismayed by it, it admits of no doubt that Holy Mother Church will face terrible times as we move further towards the Second Advent of our Blessed Saviour. We will, and indeed are, witnessing today a fearful increase in wickedness, for sure, but we are also seeing widespread apostasy, the result of false teachers and teaching, within the bosom of our beloved Church.

True, false teachings were already being propagated in St. Paul’s own times and just after, nevertheless, as he looked further into the future he could forsee the dangers increasing with the unremitting flood of false teaching, and with it a corresponding corruption of morals. Having said that the endurance of the Church is assured, notwithstanding the propagation of false doctrine, and the true body of the faithful will remain firm and steadfast, its faith indestructible. However, dear friend, there is good reason for believing that the faithful remnant will be a quite small body prior to our Lord’s return, whenever that may be. In St. Luke’s Gospel, our Lord says, “Nevertheless, when the Son of man comes, will He find faith on earth” (18: 8). I cannot help but think that this faith is the ‘faith once delivered to the saints’ (S. Jude 3), the deposit of truth contained within Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Now whilst this faith may not, perhaps, be entirely denied, neither will it be *held *, and yet without the great eternal verities of our most holy religion, there cannot be any strong general faith either that is truly worth its salt. Alas, faith in the faith is growing weaker and weaker at the present time, due largely (though not exclusively) to the dissemination of false teachings by progressives in faith and morals.

Secularism within the Church and wide loss of faith occasioned by ambiguous propositions and teaching, if not wholesale denial, are the chief cause of our present sickness. The deepest root of moral crisis is the fracture between faith and moral living. Some men have deluded themselves into believing that they can separate their faith and moral life and still regard themselves as Catholics in good standing with the Church. Thus you have the Church’s teaching on Original Sin presented in an ambiguous way; the gravity of sin passed over in silence and its consequences denied because they are deemed too harsh for modern ears and will only repel men, not draw them. As a result of all this, dear friend, children and young people are left in ignorance or only embrace an attenuated version of the faith. Men must wake up to the fact that erroneous teaching in faith and morals has very grave consequences for the life of the Church.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Good thing Catholics aren’t fundamentalists and have a completely different understanding of witnessing the Faith.

I suspect the Christians of Nero’ s day were no where near as lukewarm as today’s Christians and strove for Holiness.
👍
 
Secularism within the Church and wide loss of faith occasioned by ambiguous propositions and teaching, if not wholesale denial, are the chief cause of our present sickness.
Dear Portrait,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

It should not really surprise us, dear friend, that people who are disobedient and defiant to the Holy See have no moral standing in any debate within the Church, in case your wonderful words of accusations were crafted as a way to explain and excuse the disobedient and defiant behaviors of the SSPX. Would that less Catholics were to learn of their antics, lest they themselves come to realize that they, too, can leverage against the love which the Church has for souls, and negotiate for terms before their own Reconciliations on Saturdays.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Stylites

Pax
 
Dear Portrait,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

It should not really surprise us, dear friend, that people who are disobedient and defiant to the Holy See have no moral standing in any debate within the Church, in case your wonderful words of accusations were crafted as a way to explain and excuse the disobedient and defiant behaviors of the SSPX. Would that less Catholics were to learn of their antics, lest they themselves come to realize that they, too, can leverage against the love which the Church has for souls, and negotiate for terms before their own Reconciliations on Saturdays.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Stylites

Pax
Dear Stylites,

Hello again and thankyou for your response.

The SSPX must be reconciled to Holy Mother Church, for sure dear friend, and I pray very much that this will happen as a result of the present discussions, for when and if they are brought into full communion, they will be an immense source of blessing to the whole Church, especially in the West where liberal teachings have wreaked so much havoc.

Undoubtedly, the Catholic Church everywhere in the English-speaking world is now very different from the Church of the 1950’s. The biggest changes came from outside pressures, for example the contraceptive pill, and the consequent permissive revolution of the 1960’s, the coarsening of standards and hostile legislation. However, the fact is that many Catholic communities have also been guilty of self-harm, ignorantly encouraging the secularization of insitutions. When the reforms of Vatican II were imposed, unexpected consequences ensued, especially when leaders were naive and optimistic, underestimating the virulence of godless hostile forces and oversestimating Catholic vitality and influence.

You now have situations which are historically novel, indeed most bizarre. Some putative Catholics still insist on calling themselves Catholic when they reject most of our Church’s teaching on life, marriage and sexuality and regard the Pope and Bishops as hindrances (or irrelevant) to their modernizing liberal projects. On the other hand you have the devout believers of the SSPX who accept Tradition but sadly face resolutely at the same time in different directions by separating themselves from the legitimate authority of the Pope and the Council. Let us hope and pray that there will be a happy outcome as regards the present discussions and that estranged Catholics who have become alienated from the post-Conciliar Church may be reconciled, dear friend.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Most of these do not know what they are getting themselves into. If they care about their children’s spiritual welbeing they should not raise them in these two countries if they could possibly help it.
Actually, in a way it might be a good thing. People tend to have stronger faiths when the background noise is hostile. When society is hostile, it makes for a clearer differentiation between “me” as a Catholic and the “world”.

If you want a good example, take Vancouver. The city (maybe it’s just Vancouver proper more then the metro area) is a liberal wasteland. The Archdiocese of Vancouver on the other hand is staunchly conservative and orthodox, and lead by a very orthodox bishop (Archbishop Miller). Cardinal Levada was once Archbishop of San Francisco (arguably the most liberal city in North America).

It’s not like other countries offer better choices. Europe is even more liberal, economically bankrupt, and I hear that nationalism is making a comeback (so being an immigrant would be awful). Russia is still Russia, corrupt as it has been for the last century. Much of Africa is still engulfed in civil wars or tribal violence and some place still haven’t had the industrial revolution. The Arab world (Middle east) is still in the middle of a popular uprising, not to mention that they’re outright hostile to Christians. Most of the Far East just isn’t a great place to be (especially the PRC) politically or safety-wise. South and Latin America is better in some ways, but there’s a lot of control by drug cartels in Mexico and other countries and it’s just not as safe (most people I know are thinking of skipping World Youth Day in Rio; it’s just not a very safe place).

Oddly enough, all the best countries seem to have British heritage: the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand (just stay out of Christchurch). I don’t have evidence, but these are probably the 4 most stable (economically, politically, and safety-wise) countries in the world right now. Maybe you could also include the UK since it’s outside the Euro-zone (although it has it’s own economic problems) and ethnic tensions aren’t as high.
 
Something that continually seems to get lost in these discussions is the size of the SSPX. They have some 500 priests worldwide. My diocese alone is 250 and our priests are reverant, orthodox, and already in full communion with Rome.

I pray of the reconcilliation of the SSPX (as I do for the Orthodox and our separated bretheran), but I don’t expect that it will wholesale change the Church. We all need to do our parts to keep our own small piece of the universal church pure and holy. Usually that means praying more and paying more attention to our own families and parishes, and worrying ourselves less about issues like the SSPX discussions - which we have absolutely no (name removed by moderator)ut into or control over.
 
Something that continually seems to get lost in these discussions is the size of the SSPX. They have some 500 priests worldwide. My diocese alone is 250 and our priests are reverant, orthodox, and already in full communion with Rome.

I pray of the reconcilliation of the SSPX (as I do for the Orthodox and our separated bretheran), but I don’t expect that it will wholesale change the Church. We all need to do our parts to keep our own small piece of the universal church pure and holy. Usually that means praying more and paying more attention to our own families and parishes, and worrying ourselves less about issues like the SSPX discussions - which we have absolutely no (name removed by moderator)ut into or control over.
Out of curiosity, may I ask where your diocese is?
 
Out of curiosity, may I ask where your diocese is?
I am in the diocese of Phoenix, AZ, and I could say the same about our priests and bishop in our diocese as Mrs. Sally was saying about hers. We have about the same number of priests as she stated.
 
As you may know, the SSPX General Chapter is underway. One of the topics on the table is Rome’s proposal.

If anyone’s interested, the SSPX has an article on their website that discusses how their General Chapter works as well as the schedule.
 
Arlington 😃
Agreed. I have family there. My diocese is also very orthodox, as is my parish. Perhaps it is my pespective, both in my parish and a lifetime of doomsday-end times predictions, that make me skeptical about end of the word theories and the use of crisis rhetoric. I prefer to deal with issues on their own merit and independently. The SSPX has issues which have nothing to do with end times or crisis in the Church.
 
Agreed. I have family there. My diocese is also very orthodox, as is my parish. Perhaps it is my pespective, both in my parish and a lifetime of doomsday-end times predictions, that make me skeptical about end of the word theories and the use of crisis rhetoric. I prefer to deal with issues on their own merit and independently. The SSPX has issues which have nothing to do with end times or crisis in the Church.
Maybe that is why those of us who so dearly want and need the SSPX to come into full communion are always so dramatic about it. We don’t live in diocese like yours. Lucky dog.
 
Maybe that is why those of us who so dearly want and need the SSPX to come into full communion are always so dramatic about it. We don’t live in diocese like yours.
Should we not also ask why there are not more diocese like this one?
 
Maybe that is why those of us who so dearly want and need the SSPX to come into full communion are always so dramatic about it. We don’t live in diocese like yours. Lucky dog.
Dear Moore11,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly well said. My sentiments entirely.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Actually, in a way it might be a good thing. People tend to have stronger faiths when the background noise is hostile. When society is hostile, it makes for a clearer differentiation between “me” as a Catholic and the “world”.

If you want a good example, take Vancouver. The city (maybe it’s just Vancouver proper more then the metro area) is a liberal wasteland. The Archdiocese of Vancouver on the other hand is staunchly conservative and orthodox, and lead by a very orthodox bishop (Archbishop Miller). Cardinal Levada was once Archbishop of San Francisco (arguably the most liberal city in North America).

It’s not like other countries offer better choices. Europe is even more liberal, economically bankrupt, and I hear that nationalism is making a comeback (so being an immigrant would be awful). Russia is still Russia, corrupt as it has been for the last century. Much of Africa is still engulfed in civil wars or tribal violence and some place still haven’t had the industrial revolution. The Arab world (Middle east) is still in the middle of a popular uprising, not to mention that they’re outright hostile to Christians. Most of the Far East just isn’t a great place to be (especially the PRC) politically or safety-wise. South and Latin America is better in some ways, but there’s a lot of control by drug cartels in Mexico and other countries and it’s just not as safe (most people I know are thinking of skipping World Youth Day in Rio; it’s just not a very safe place).

Oddly enough, all the best countries seem to have British heritage: the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand (just stay out of Christchurch). I don’t have evidence, but these are probably the 4 most stable (economically, politically, and safety-wise) countries in the world right now. Maybe you could also include the UK since it’s outside the Euro-zone (although it has it’s own economic problems) and ethnic tensions aren’t as high.
Which I why I always say it’s better for me to be a Catholic here in Canada than in the Philippines. Despite being a mostly Catholic country, many in the Philippines are poorly catechized and not devout. Many show up to Mass because it’s what they were brought up to do. They receive the Sacraments because it is the cultural thing to do (baptism, get married in church, etc.).

Here in Canada, there is no cultural pressure to go to Mass on Sundays. While there are still nominal Catholics, those who show up on Sunday are those who want to be there.
 
Which I why I always say it’s better for me to be a Catholic here in Canada than in the Philippines. Despite being a mostly Catholic country, many in the Philippines are poorly catechized and not devout. Many show up to Mass because it’s what they were brought up to do. They receive the Sacraments because it is the cultural thing to do (baptism, get married in church, etc.).

Here in Canada, there is no cultural pressure to go to Mass on Sundays. While there are still nominal Catholics, those who show up on Sunday are those who want to be there.
This is an awefully broad brush stroke from a fellow Filipino.
 
Which I why I always say it’s better for me to be a Catholic here in Canada than in the Philippines. Despite being a mostly Catholic country, many in the Philippines are poorly catechized and not devout. Many show up to Mass because it’s what they were brought up to do. They receive the Sacraments because it is the cultural thing to do (baptism, get married in church, etc.).

Here in Canada, there is no cultural pressure to go to Mass on Sundays. While there are still nominal Catholics, those who show up on Sunday are those who want to be there.
Is that because they’ve assimilated themselves (by marrying the natives, etc.) too much into the national culture?

But whatever, the habit of not going to church is a tough thing to break. I think it’s far better to go even for the wrong reasons. Otherwise the children and their children will never be exposed to worship of God at all.
 
Dear Moore11,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly well said. My sentiments entirely.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
I agree too.

I’m surprised when I read about “Orthodox Oasis” Dioceses.

Blessings!

🙂

EDIT: Post 400! 😃
 
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