SSPX Receiving Communion

  • Thread starter Thread starter Catholic21
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I still don’t get how people who are Catholics can support a group that says the Mass is ‘evil’.

Bishop Fellay was just as adamant in condemning the revised Roman Missal : “They want us to recognize not only that the [New] Mass is valid, provided it is celebrated correctly, etc., but that it is licit. I told them: We don’t use that word. It’s a bit messy, . . . so we tell our faithful, ‘The New Mass is bad, it is evil,’
 
Margaret_Ann said:
Think of it this way: Two sisters don’t speak to each other but they’re still family, and one deals with family in a different way than dealing with strangers.
Click to expand...
Your analogy is fair, if applied to the 1970s. The 2 sisters have had bitter arguments, but also have a huge base of common experiences and formation.

Fast forward to 2019. The 2 sisters have granddaughters. The granddaughters have little acrimony. They have less in common than their moms had with each other in 1994, but more in common than their daughters will have with each other in 2044
 
Last edited:
It’s hard to pin down an exact date when the PNCC really became a separate denomination. The situation varied from diocese to diocese, like the SSPX.

In the early years there was lots of acrimony and lawsuits, name calling, etc. The PNCC clergy may not have been on speaking terms with their diocesan brothers, but they certainly knew each other, went to the same seminaries. They insisted they had not left the Catholic Church.

Very gradually, the acrimony got less. Their clergy and laity grew up in the PNCC. At some point, varying from place to place, they gradually became a separate denomination, still saying they are fully Catholic. They don’t accept parts of V1 and V2.
 
Last edited:
commenter said:
It’s hard to pin down an exact date when the PNCC really became a separate denomination. The situation varied from diocese to diocese, like the SSPX.

In the early years there was lots of acrimony and lawsuits, name calling, etc. The PNCC clergy may not have been on speaking terms with their diocesan brothers, but they certainly knew each other, went to the same seminaries. They insisted they had not left the Catholic Church.

Very gradually, the acrimony got less. Their clergy and laity grew up in the PNCC. At some point, varying from place to place, they gradually became a separate denomination, still saying they are fully Catholic. They don’t accept parts of V1 and V2.
Click to expand...
I really don’t think it’s going to “rattle out” the way you describe; comparing the SSPX to the PNCC seems to me to be kind of “apples and oranges”. The Vatican and the SSPX are actively working together, and no one wants a schism. Also, the SSPX is worldwide, has solid theological credentials, and is said by some to be quite wealthy.

Also, and this is a very important “also”, modes of communication and public media are light-years more advanced than anything you had in the era when the PNCC emerged. Different ideas and schools of thought stand or fall on their own merits, and ideas are freely and quickly proposed and discussed. Just look at what we have here on CAF; a generation ago, such things didn’t even exist. You had to write a letter to the editor of some Catholic publication, hope it got published, hope that subscribers to that publication read and took to heart what you had to say, and wait for the publisher to print any replies. What we do on here in an afternoon took several months and wasn’t anything near as comprehensive.

But no one has a crystal ball, and while I hope not, and nobody wants it to come to that, I suppose theoretically it could. Oremus.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
comparing the SSPX to the PNCC seems to me to be kind of “apples and oranges”.
Click to expand...
I partly concede the point, but it’s the best I could do. I thought about comparing the Old Catholic Churches, but I lack information and personal contacts.
“Apples and oranges” better than nothing.
 
commenter said:
Their clergy and laity grew up in the PNCC. At some point, varying from place to place, they gradually became a separate denomination, still saying they are fully Catholic.
Click to expand...
PNCC and Old Catholics did not gradually become their own denominations due to time spent apart from their respective dioceses. They became separate denominations immediately after rejecting dogmas of the Faith. The SSPX accepts everything defined dogmatically by Rome.
 
commenter said:
comparing the SSPX to the PNCC seems to me to be kind of “apples and oranges”.
Click to expand...
The Old Catholics are a bit more analogous, but again, the free flow of ideas and discussion in the media puts everything “in the spotlight” and “under the microscope” in a way that wasn’t possible before. Think of how things might have turned out if there had been an Internet when the question arose “does the See of Utrecht have the prerogative to govern itself, or doesn’t it?”. Videos, blogs, every Tom, Dick, and Henrijk with an opinion and a forum on which to express it.

To illustrate the effectiveness of decentralized, pervasive media, try to imagine the sexual abuse crisis without the Internet. Publicity and ease of communication acts as a strong disinfectant.
Click to expand...
 
Some Old Catholics identified themselves as “pre-concilliar”. They accepted all traditional dogmas (in their eyes) but rejected innovations at the Council, and post conciliar innovations related to bad interpretation of the Council, that were inconsistent with Catholic Tradition.
But there were different branches, which do not agree on some things.

Some would say they accept the whole Council (V1, or V2) if they could get proper clarification. Of course “proper clarification” can mean different things to different people.
 
Last edited:
commenter said:
They accepted all traditional dogmas (in their eyes) but rejected innovations at the Council, and post conciliar innovations related to bad interpretation of the Council, that were inconsistent with Catholic Tradition.
Click to expand...
My point being is they rejected teachings that were defined dogmatically by Rome. The SSPX has not done this, which is why comparing SSPX to groups like Old Catholics is a stretch.
 
Last edited:
Lavenderson said:
My point being is they rejected teachings that were defined dogmatically the SSPX has not done this, which is why comparing SSPX to groups like Old Catholics is a stretch.
Click to expand...
I’m a social worker not a theologian. Thus, my analogies are based on similar social processes over time.

I’m also comparing SSPX of the 1970s with SSPX of 2019.
 
Last edited:
HomeschoolDad said:
As regards liceity, three sacraments down, four to go.
Click to expand...
It’s true Bishop Fellay said this. I haven’t seen any official Church sources, though. I think Bernard Fellay is extremely charismatic, but I also don’t think he’s a liar. But you be your own judge.
It’s kind of like Bishop Huonder being “permitted” to retire with the SSPX. Again, I have yet to find a source outside the SSPX to support this.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top