SSPX seems to indicate a definitive break with the Holy See

[Thomas_Casey]

Please verify with statements from the CDF before we make statements that will only confuse us. What we think is necessary to be inside the Church may be different from what the Holy See considers necessary. The Holy See makes those determinations.

Thank you

 

[leinadster]

The SSPX website gives some information, but I don’t have a full understanding of their ministry. What else do priests do besides the sacraments? Are their “chapels” actual parishes, with the typical range of activities in a small RC parish? Do they have any other kinds of pastoral type ministries, such as health care chaplains, anything like Catholic Charities, prolife, marriage preparation, etc? RC priests spend much time in non-sacramental duties, wonder what SSPX priests do.

I was surprised at the extent of their parochial school system, even boarding schools. Are these run similar to RC schools? My guess is schools might be very small, but I don’t know. Operating a school takes a huge amount of strength and structure.

How do they attract seminarians, and laity, given that it’s almost 50 years since the TLM was in common use? Granted they might draw some young people who grew up in the SSPX but that has to be hard, given the SSPX is relatively small. Are people drawn to the SSPX for reasons other than liturgy? Are all the laity drawn from disgruntled, active RC laity, or does the SSPX evangelize any unchurched, or Protestants? It seems if the majority of a chapel are disgruntled types, it would be hard to keep anything going.

What is the role of laity in the SSPX? Do they “register” at a chapel/parish? Do they also belong to a RC parish at the same time? I can imagine some people who belong to a RC parish but also like to stop by the SSPX chapel when convenient; but that doesn’t sound like the type to keep the SSPX chapels/parishes going, let alone the SSPX schools. There must be some strengths here that I am unaware of.

The only way to find out is actually walking into a SSPX chapel.

 

[TimothyH]

While I do agree that much of what has been said on this thread has been repeated ad nauseam, it’s also important to remember that most Catholics have never heard of the SSPX and never will.

That has always been my point of contention with all this discussion. It is not wrong to acknowledge how important the issue is to traditionalists, it is also not wrong to acknowledge that it is a non issue to the vast majority of Catholics who have never heard of the SSPX.

Remember, grace builds on nature. If our hearts are twisted, grace can’t build much there.

This is how you challenge me brother. Four words, “Grace builds on nature” and I am left meditating on that, turning it over and over in my head, like one of those run-on sentances in Paul’s epistles.

-Tim-

 

[Ridgerunner]

The SSPX website gives some information, but I don’t have a full understanding of their ministry. What else do priests do besides the sacraments? Are their “chapels” actual parishes, with the typical range of activities in a small RC parish? Do they have any other kinds of pastoral type ministries, such as health care chaplains, anything like Catholic Charities, prolife, marriage preparation, etc? RC priests spend much time in non-sacramental duties, wonder what SSPX priests do.

I was surprised at the extent of their parochial school system, even boarding schools. Are these run similar to RC schools? My guess is schools might be very small, but I don’t know. Operating a school takes a huge amount of strength and structure.

How do they attract seminarians, and laity, given that it’s almost 50 years since the TLM was in common use? Granted they might draw some young people who grew up in the SSPX but that has to be hard, given the SSPX is relatively small. Are people drawn to the SSPX for reasons other than liturgy? Are all the laity drawn from disgruntled, active RC laity, or does the SSPX evangelize any unchurched, or Protestants? It seems if the majority of a chapel are disgruntled types, it would be hard to keep anything going.

What is the role of laity in the SSPX? Do they “register” at a chapel/parish? Do they also belong to a RC parish at the same time? I can imagine some people who belong to a RC parish but also like to stop by the SSPX chapel when convenient; but that doesn’t sound like the type to keep the SSPX chapels/parishes going, let alone the SSPX schools. There must be some strengths here that I am unaware of.

I am no great expert on the SSPX, but from what they have told me, and from my own observation of their parish, I would say their priests do pretty much what priests do anywhere. They have parish organizations, events, just like any parish would. They do have very serious marriage preparation.

If they have a parish school locally, I’m not aware of it. But in some places they have grade schools and high schools. They do have orders of nuns. They have at least one seminary in the U.S. My impression is that they have a high degree of vocations. They take it all very seriously.

I do not know whether they get many converts. I do know they proselytize protestants at least some, because I have seen them do it. If they proselytize regular Catholics, I am not aware of it, but they might. They have never tried to proselytize me, but maybe they know I’m fine with where I am. They speak respectfully of the Church and the Pope. If you ask one whether he/she is SSPX, they’re very quick to tell a person “I’m just Catholic”. If you ask further, they’ll explain further. Some of them might have a real antipathy toward the “regular” Church, but I haven’t seen it. (The SSPV is very different in that regard)

They have a lot of liturgical events, I gather. Lots of devotions and such.

I’m not pushing SSPX. I think the whole situation is very sad. I have sometimes thought about all those young, very faithful priests they’re ordaining, and I sometimes wish they could just be put into our own parishes.

I think it would be hard for a “regular” Catholic to go SSPX, but I can see why some would. I think it would be extremely difficult to leave SSPX once one was in it. My impression is that it’s a lot like the regular Catholic parishes of old…very tight knit, lots of Church-related activities, pretty parish centered, inclined to marry within their own.

But for the younger ones, it might not be so much that way. I know a Catholic girl who has dated an SSPX boy, both college age. She wouldn’t go SSPX for anything, but he doesn’t seem to have a lot of trouble with the idea of “going regular Church”. He respects SSPX, but has expressed that he thinks one of the areas where just about everybody is SSPX (St. Mary’s, Kansas) is “too much of a bubble”.

 

[Aramis]

I am no great expert on the SSPX, but from what they have told me, and from my own observation of their parish, I would say their priests do pretty much what priests do anywhere. They have parish organizations, events, just like any parish would. They do have very serious marriage preparation.

This is a major problem with the SSPX - they are not entitled to function as parishes, but bill themselves very much as parish priests, and their chapels function as parishes. Their “Pastors” are not pastors, but priests without a properly assigned ministry. From that flaw flows a pile of other flaws - the lack of jurisdiction to witness marriages, to absolve sins, to confirm… all of which require a pastor’s jurisdiction. (While a valid marriage doesn’t require the pastor, the pastor or the parish’s canonical bishop determine who can stand as witness to the couple’s marriage on behalf of the Church.)

 

[hazcompat]

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Peace

 

[pnewton]

So the SSPX is the next protestant sect!

If they have broken from Rome they are hardly Catholic anymore, thus the next protestant sect.

They may have one thing in common with them, but the correlation is thin. I too, as have most here, on occasion had something that made us question the Church. We have that in common with protestants. In all cases, the connection and the analogy is thin. This is truly a case that unless we are living a very saintly life we should drop our stones and wait on the Church.

The problem with the internet is that it makes what is a process of generations seem like a football game. We read something discouraging and want to throw up our hands in frustration. I sure did on this news. But we have to remember this is but one off sides penalty. There is more to come. When the Church has spoken, then we will be in better shape for our posturing.

 

[Mike30]

Speaking 3 languages (2 very poorly due to being used infrequently) and having studied 5 besides my native, I know that it’s easy to misunderstand a language you seldom use, even if at one time fluent. It’s quite possible, due to the lack of common use of Latin, that they may not truly grasp that their latin isn’t up to the tasks.

It’s better to presume incompetence than disobedience, IMO.

I would rather presume that anyone, especially a high ranking member of the Church, who swears an oath before God, would at a bare minimum understand what he was in fact swearing to.