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tstadheim
Guest
this is unlike the diocese which suspended Sunday obligation for everyone.
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1ke
Guest
Well, since the SSPX is a priestly society laity don’t belong to the society, they aren’t pastors, they don’t have parishes, and they don’t have any authority to dispense anyone from anything.this is unlike the diocese which suspended Sunday obligation for everyone.
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JulianN
Guest
If the diocese (the bishop) suspended Mass obligation, then it’s suspended. The SSPX Mass attendees included.
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otjm
Guest
And hopefully they will accept any decision of the local bishop.If the diocese (the bishop) suspended Mass obligation, then it’s suspended. The SSPX Mass attendees included.
This seems to be one of the more, if not most virulent viruses in terms of its degree of contagiousness.
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commenter
Guest
I think this is what the Thread refers to.
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Maximian
Guest
Our local SSPX chapel suspended Mass as of last Sunday.
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Margaret_Ann
Guest
The SSPX District of Canada posted this:
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JulianN
Guest
If they insist on defying the bishop of a diocese who has suspended Masses, or made any other licit order, they are demonstrating a stubborn disobedience that goes to their lack of full communion in the first place. Not to mention a disregard for preventing the spread of a pandemic. And yes, that would make me say, shame on them.
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JulianN
Guest
Since the SSPX is fundamentally in a state of disobedience, yes, they are free to do whatever they’d like. But it certainly does not speak well for them.
If they do choose to disregard the bishop of the territory in which they are operating, then I don’t think the virtue-signaling is coming from my argument – it’s their behavior.
I suppose if they only have contact with fellow members of the SSPX who accept that premise, sure. However, I’m guessing they have contact with people outside that community who may not prefer to risk their own lives in order to accommodate that.
If they do choose to disregard the bishop of the territory in which they are operating, then I don’t think the virtue-signaling is coming from my argument – it’s their behavior.
I suppose if they only have contact with fellow members of the SSPX who accept that premise, sure. However, I’m guessing they have contact with people outside that community who may not prefer to risk their own lives in order to accommodate that.
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TK421
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No. They made a statement that doesn’t coincide with reality. The bishop of the diocese has the authority given to him by God to make a dispensation, which has already been done.
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phil19034
Guest
I checked their website…this is unlike the diocese which suspended Sunday obligation for everyone.
While Fr. Wegner said he is dispensing the sick and elderly, he’s actually simply telling reiterating what Canon Law already says. The sick are always automatically dispensed from Mass and the elderly are too if they risk getting sick.
What he said is really no different from a parish priest saying to a sick or elderly person “I dispense you from Sunday Mass.” Afterall, he’s starting this for people everywhere, including in dioceses where the bishop hasn’t dispensed Mass yet.
I think the SSPX is simply trying to encourage at risk people (esp those who don’t trust the Bishops) to to stay home.
I really wouldn’t make more of this than there really is.
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JulianN
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I do understand this. It does however, presume liceity. The SSPX does not currently possess that. Hence the point. That’s why I used the word ‘disregard.’
There is a reason most bishops have suspended the public celebration of Mass. And it is indeed to prevent people gathering, in order to protect the common good. Which is also part of Catholic teaching.
Of course there are people who will selfishly ignore the bishops; but let’s not pretend that is some exercise of Christian charity on their part.
There is a reason most bishops have suspended the public celebration of Mass. And it is indeed to prevent people gathering, in order to protect the common good. Which is also part of Catholic teaching.
Of course there are people who will selfishly ignore the bishops; but let’s not pretend that is some exercise of Christian charity on their part.
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JulianN
Guest
This common good also does not require gathering to attend Mass.
Additionally, in the schedule you provided, it implies that Communion will be distributed. How would they do that while maintaining a six-foot distance?
I cannot fathom the idea of skirting around the spirit of a bishop’s suspension of public Masses and gatherings and endangering others’ lives. Clearly we disagree about that, so it would probably be prudent to cease this conversation.
Additionally, in the schedule you provided, it implies that Communion will be distributed. How would they do that while maintaining a six-foot distance?
I cannot fathom the idea of skirting around the spirit of a bishop’s suspension of public Masses and gatherings and endangering others’ lives. Clearly we disagree about that, so it would probably be prudent to cease this conversation.
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JulianN
Guest
I do understand this point – that’s why I said the ‘spirit’ of the bishop’s suspension. By continuing to allow the laity to attend, they are indeed skirting around his suspension – the point of which is to cease those gatherings.
I also understand that the SSPX is currently illicit, which is somewhat germane to the topic.
I get that they have the right to ignore the bishop and health authorities – I’m saying that their irresponsible behavior should not somehow be cast as Christian charity or piety.
I also understand that the SSPX is currently illicit, which is somewhat germane to the topic.
I get that they have the right to ignore the bishop and health authorities – I’m saying that their irresponsible behavior should not somehow be cast as Christian charity or piety.
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aroosi
Guest
Great. So younger people can still get infected, show very little symptoms and spread it around to their own sick and elderly friends and relatives. How clever.
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Dovekin
Guest
Why do you make claims like this?
Even if SSPX were a religio iuris pontificii, that would apply primarily to “internal governance and discipline.” (CIC 593) It is quite a stretch to see that authority as superseding the authority of the local bishop to suspend masses for public health reasons. I am sure there have been times similar conflicts have risen up, but have they ever been decided against the bishop?
Even if SSPX were a religio iuris pontificii, that would apply primarily to “internal governance and discipline.” (CIC 593) It is quite a stretch to see that authority as superseding the authority of the local bishop to suspend masses for public health reasons. I am sure there have been times similar conflicts have risen up, but have they ever been decided against the bishop?
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OraLabora
Guest
Weak example. If child A was dropped off at child B’s house by child A’s mother while she went to run errands or go to an appointment, then there’s a reasonable expectation that child A obeys child B’s mother while under her care.
Our abbey is also of pontifical right and does not answer to the diocesan bishop. However in this pandemic as well as the H1N1 crisis, etc., as a courtesy, the abbey followed the bishop’s instructions even though he doesn’t technically have jurisdiction, because we share the same pool of faithful who attend Mass at the abbey, and they are under the jurisdiction of the bishop. So there’s a reasonable expectation that the abbey will ensure their safety. When the faithful are in the abbey, the abbot ensures that nothing is done counter to the pastoral care of the bishop,
They have since gone farther and closed the abbey to all outsiders as most monks are over 70 and many are in their late 80s and 90s and very frail. But that’s another story.
This pandemic is not a time to be headstrong and defy common-sense sanitary precautions.
Nonsense. Catholics are above all practical people. We aren’t into faith healing and other such nonsense. Certainly we Benedictines are practical. People who put supernatural considerations above the safety of the faithful are the ones being uncharitable, not to mention unwise.
Our abbey is also of pontifical right and does not answer to the diocesan bishop. However in this pandemic as well as the H1N1 crisis, etc., as a courtesy, the abbey followed the bishop’s instructions even though he doesn’t technically have jurisdiction, because we share the same pool of faithful who attend Mass at the abbey, and they are under the jurisdiction of the bishop. So there’s a reasonable expectation that the abbey will ensure their safety. When the faithful are in the abbey, the abbot ensures that nothing is done counter to the pastoral care of the bishop,
They have since gone farther and closed the abbey to all outsiders as most monks are over 70 and many are in their late 80s and 90s and very frail. But that’s another story.
This pandemic is not a time to be headstrong and defy common-sense sanitary precautions.
Nonsense. Catholics are above all practical people. We aren’t into faith healing and other such nonsense. Certainly we Benedictines are practical. People who put supernatural considerations above the safety of the faithful are the ones being uncharitable, not to mention unwise.
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OraLabora
Guest
I’m sorry but I wasn’t aware that restricting public access to liturgy for public health reasons consisted of a condemnation of one’s soul. My bad.
The salvation of the soul does not require public attendance at a liturgy in a pandemic. God is not a tyrant.
There are other ways for us to wish the salvation of the souls of others. One way to do so, is to one’s self participate in the liturgy of the Church, privately. Which is exactly what I do: I pray (chant actually) the Liturgy of the Hours daily, for the good of the Church and all her faithful.
To suggest that I don’t will the good of someone’s soul because I put a high value safety and public health, is uncharitable in the extreme. Both are necessary but it is not necessary to sacrifice public safety for the spiritual needs of the people.
It also does a disservice to the memory of the multitude of Catholics who have had no access to sacraments for many years due to persecution or lack of clergy or distance. Our faith is more resilient than you think.
Edit: I just noticed on the Canadian SSPX site that they too have suspended public Masses:
The salvation of the soul does not require public attendance at a liturgy in a pandemic. God is not a tyrant.
There are other ways for us to wish the salvation of the souls of others. One way to do so, is to one’s self participate in the liturgy of the Church, privately. Which is exactly what I do: I pray (chant actually) the Liturgy of the Hours daily, for the good of the Church and all her faithful.
To suggest that I don’t will the good of someone’s soul because I put a high value safety and public health, is uncharitable in the extreme. Both are necessary but it is not necessary to sacrifice public safety for the spiritual needs of the people.
It also does a disservice to the memory of the multitude of Catholics who have had no access to sacraments for many years due to persecution or lack of clergy or distance. Our faith is more resilient than you think.
Edit: I just noticed on the Canadian SSPX site that they too have suspended public Masses:
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1ke
Guest
But let’s also be clear that the priests of SSPX have no authority to dispense people from the mass obligation because they are not pastors and don’t have parishes. So Fr Wegner cannot dispense as the website claims.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
Thank you for the links you include. It does help to read what is really happening verses vague accusations.
Exactly. This is a time when our spiritual lives are extremely important. Who among us can guarantee this won’t hit us or someone we love and lose our earthly lives and our souls.
For me I am so saddened that all the confessional doors are closed in my diocese.
Exactly. This is a time when our spiritual lives are extremely important. Who among us can guarantee this won’t hit us or someone we love and lose our earthly lives and our souls.
For me I am so saddened that all the confessional doors are closed in my diocese.
It is important to be sure and read from primary sources.Edit: I just noticed on the Canadian SSPX site that they too have suspended public Masses:
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