SSPX Teaching Video

[PrayforMallory]

Could somebody give me a well-rounded critique of this video?

I’d like to know how accurate/inaccurate it is?

youtube.com/watch?v=n4l6TvRX0EI

 

[saint_rafael]

Amazing video

John 8:32

Father is dead on accurate in that video.

He’s not saying the Novus Ordo is invalid, but tells the truth when he points out how Protestantized the liturgy is.

The new liturgy is a direct insult to all the English martyrs including St. John Cardinal Fisher, the courageous Catholic bishop who died for their faith and the Latin Mass.
It’s sad that the very abuses they fought against would be adopted by a misguided hierarchy in Pope Paul VI.

 

[catharina]

Could somebody give me a well-rounded critique of this video?

I’d like to know how accurate/inaccurate it is?

youtube.com/watch?v=n4l6TvRX0EI

As it stands (sspx, today) the only critique I can offer regarding its materials and outreach is this: the sspx stands under the leadership of an excommunicated bishop and as such, I know that while it remains in this status of division, it has nothing to offer to me, a lifelong Catholic.

The sspx will obey Rome in the future or remain in division. I see no other options.

 

[PrayforMallory]

As it stands (sspx, today) the only critique I can offer regarding its materials and outreach is this: the sspx stands under the leadership of an excommunicated bishop and as such, I know that while it remains in this status of division, it has nothing to offer to me, a lifelong Catholic.

The sspx will obey Rome in the future or remain in division. I see no other options.

True. Any thoughts on the content, though?

 

[catharina]

True. Any thoughts on the content, though?

I don’t review their literature or videos.
I’ve never been to their website either.

 

[Our_Refuge]

True. Any thoughts on the content, though?

Of course the changes made to the New Mass are similar to those of Luther and Cranmer. Priest facing the people, active participation, all vernacular, communion in the hand etc. There is no doubt in my mind these changes were for ecumenical reasons.
I don’t like that fact that the SSPX priest uses the term “norvus ordo churches”. This implies that it is a “new” church which it is not. It has a new rite that is completely different from the old rite.
I don’t know if the claim he makes that in all newly constructed churches {he doesn’t use those exact words} relics of saints are no longer used or that in wooden altars, stone is not used.

 

[catharina]

True. Any thoughts on the content, though?

Afterthought:

It’s this simple for me.

The society is led by an excommuincated bishop (Fellay).
How could it (or its teachings/advice) interest me? It couldn’t. Ever.

I am charged with protecting my Faith.
Things that oppose that Faith are to be avoided.
Simple.

 

[Our_Refuge]

Afterthought:

It’s this simple for me.

The society is led by an excommuincated bishop (Fellay).
How could it (or its teachings/advice) interest me? It couldn’t. Ever.

I am charged with protecting my Faith.
Things that oppose that Faith are to be avoided.
Simple.

I have gone to their site. I have gone to the website of the Baptists, Jehovah Witness, sedevacantists, atheists, Billy Graham. I have no fear of any of them.
How can you understand them if you avoid them? Doesn’t the church desire “dialogue” with those separated from us and even with non-christians?

 

[PrayforMallory]

Afterthought:

It’s this simple for me.

The society is led by an excommuincated bishop (Fellay).
How could it (or its teachings/advice) interest me? It couldn’t. Ever.

I am charged with protecting my Faith.
Things that oppose that Faith are to be avoided.
Simple.

Forgive me, but it sounds like you are just shutting it out instead of refuting it.

 

[PrayforMallory]

I have gone to their site. I have gone to the website of the Baptists, Jehovah Witness, sedevacantists, atheists, Billy Graham. I have no fear of any of them.
How can you understand them if you avoid them? Doesn’t the church desire “dialogue” with those separated from us and even with non-christians?

So how do you feel about the SSPX arguments presented in this video. From your previous post, I am under the impression you are at least in agreement with some part of it?

 

[catharina]

I have gone to their site. I have gone to the website of the Baptists, Jehovah Witness, sedevacantists, atheists, Billy Graham. I have no fear of any of them.
How can you understand them if you avoid them? Doesn’t the church desire “dialogue” with those separated from us and even with non-christians?

Perfect love casts out fear. I have no fear of them.

I am guided by Church Teaching. If/when the day comes when I encounter any of the above (you’ve named) I know that Church Teaching has prepared me in regard to the errors of each group. What more do I need? The grace of God leads us. It hasn’t led me to those sites.

 

[catharina]

Forgive me, but it sounds like you are just shutting it out instead of refuting it.

Judge if you wish. My first degree is in Catholic Theology.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I am in agreement with those who do not care to see a propaganda video put out by a schismatic group whose leaders has been excommunicated by the Holy See. We have enough to know and learn about the true faith, Rather than looking into a schismatic group that is in open disobedience to Rome look into the Roman Catholic Church for the fullness of truth, guaranteed by Jesus while on earth and a Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Not one that has rejected ties to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[catharina]

I am in agreement with those who do not care to see a propaganda video put out by a schismatic group whose leaders has been excommunicated by the Holy See. We have enough to know and learn about the true faith, Rather than looking into a schismatic group that is in open disobedience to Rome look into the Roman Catholic Church for the fullness of truth, guaranteed by Jesus while on earth and a Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Not one that has rejected ties to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Why, thank you, Deacon Ed.
My point precisely!

 

[Our_Refuge]

So how do you feel about the SSPX arguments presented in this video. From your previous post, I am under the impression you are at least in agreement with some part of it?

I do not like it when the SSPX refers to the Church as the “New Church” or the “Novus Ordo Church”. It is ambigious. Are they saying the Church has fallen from the faith or the OF is invalid?

I do agree that the Mass has taken on elements found in the liturgy of the Lutherans and Anglicans. I believe these changes were to bring about some sort of union between us and them. They found Latin to be offensive so it was removed. They favored active participation so it was added.

The first paragraph of the Constitution alludes to this ecumenism.
To “foster whatever can **promote union **among all who believe in Christ” is a reason given for "undertaking the reform and promotion of the liturgy.
"vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html

1. This sacred Council has** several aims in view**: it desires to impart an ever** increasing vigor to the Christian life of the faithful**; to adapt more suitably **to the needs of our own times **those institutions which are subject to change; to foster whatever can promote union among all who believe in Christ; to strengthen whatever can help **to call the whole of mankind into the household of the Church. The Council therefore sees particularly cogent reasons for undertaking the reform and promotion of the liturgy. **"

There is no doubt in my mind that the removal of statues, the tabernacle, using a crucifix that does not have the body of Christ in the sanctuary is part of this idea. Now you may get a Bishop that doesn’t go along with this ecumenical idea of the Mass and it will vary from diocese to diocese and even from parish to parish.

I have had to shop around to find a NO parish that retains all of the traditions and that shouldn’t be the case.
I understand the position of the SSPX in regards to the changes in the Mass but I do believe that there are some hardliners that don’t want to work things out with the Vatican. I think that eventually the excommunications will be lifted and they will become similar to the Byzantine Churches, in union with Rome but with a different rite of Mass.

 

[saint_rafael]

The SSPX is not is schism. Cardinal Hoyos has made that clear already so many times last year.

They are faithful Catholics. they believe the Church is still the one true Church, but has beome infected with modernism so it looks like a new religion.

When father says a the Novus Ordo Church, he is talking about the Catholic Church that has become infected with errors and modernism. The SSPX and other traditionalists are tying to keep the true faith until the Church gets wakes up and cleans house by bringing about a restoration of true traditional Catholicism.

 

[catharina]

The SSPX is not is schism. Cardinal Hoyos has made that clear already so many times last year.

They are faithful Catholics. they believe the Church is still the one true Church, but has beome infected with modernism so it looks like a new religion.

When father says a the Novus Ordo Church, he is talking about the Catholic Church that has become infected with errors and modernism. The SSPX and other traditionalists are tying to keep the true faith until the Church gets wakes up and cleans house by bringing about a restoration of true traditional Catholicism.

sspx is under the voluntary leadership of an excommunicated bishop who is in schism. What shall become of the members of sspx remains to be seen. Their current leader is a schismatic.

Regarding that fact, there is absolutely no doubt.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

It seems like there is a gathering of those who are want to call themselves the remnant. The keepers of the true faith. Next we will have Indiana Jones riding up on a horse, a tank, a plane or whatever to help save them. Sorry for this mirth, but this is “Left behind” all over again.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[NicPais83]

Could somebody give me a well-rounded critique of this video?

I’d like to know how accurate/inaccurate it is?

youtube.com/watch?v=n4l6TvRX0EI

I watched the video through. It is interesting, yet you have to understand what it is he’s doing. While he’s pointing out similarities with the Novus Ordo and the Anglican service, he’s not going much farther than reacting. He doesn’t get into the theology other than to tell you that the Novus Ordo does A, Anglicans do A, therefore there’s something odd here. But, for every piece of contention he gives, you need to research it too.

He makes one MAJOR error that no one should have made, regardless of SSPX or not. He talks about lay people preaching, but with these lay people being ordained as deacons. A deacon, both before and after the Second Vatican Council was NEVER considered lay. Deacons are one of the three Major Orders of the Latin Church: Bishop, Priest, Deacon. The Deacon’s role is service to the people, as shown in Acts with St. Stephan, and has the faculties to give the homily. If the Deacon were not clergy, then he would not be ordained and he would not be dressed with a stole, as can be seen in both the Novus Ordo and Tridentine Masses.

In terms of the similarity between the Novus Ordo and the Anglican service, you have to read the Book of Common Prayer, the “missal” of the Anglican Church. In 1979 it was updated in the US to make it look like the Mass, but watered down and removing any references to Saints and Sacrifice, but the official UK version is particularly what Fr. was talking about. This service doesn’t resemble the Mass too much, but there is a common heritage in that it is based off of the Sarum Use. Aside from that, what you really have to look at is what the prayers are saying. The Novus Ordo prays that God accepts the Sacrifice offered at the Priest’s hands, and prays that the gifts of bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ. The Anglican service prays that God enters their hearts as their bread and wine might be Christ’s Body and Blood, but just to be on the safe side, might not be, so the prayers are vague and don’t talk about Sacrifice.

 

[NicPais83]

The SSPX is not is schism. Cardinal Hoyos has made that clear already so many times last year.

They are faithful Catholics. they believe the Church is still the one true Church, but has beome infected with modernism so it looks like a new religion.

When father says a the Novus Ordo Church, he is talking about the Catholic Church that has become infected with errors and modernism. The SSPX and other traditionalists are tying to keep the true faith until the Church gets wakes up and cleans house by bringing about a restoration of true traditional Catholicism.

The SSPX faithful and Priests are not in schism, but the Bishops that were ordained in 1988 in France are excommunicated. The Priests are validly ordained, but the Masses of the SSPX are illicit. Basically, Rome has said that we are not to attend SSPX Masses, unless it is our only option. If you have a Novus Ordo in Communion with Rome, you are to attend that before going to an SSPX Mass. If it is the Tridentine Mass you want, there’s the FSSP, and as of last year any Priest can licitly offer the Tridentine Mass.

The Church cannot be infected with errors, as a core belief of ours is that Christ will never abandon the Church. You are contradicting yourself.