SSPX Update - Redux

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Lately it’s hard to tell what’s real “news” concerning the SSPX, and what’s satire coming from a certain website, the name of which I dare not mention here…:rolleyes:

(I refer in part to the second paragraph of the Rorate Caeli article, which might have been lifted in entirety from the pages of the aforementioned unaussprechlichen website)

Anyway, if the Rorate article is indeed accurate, the stage is now set, it’s the big moment- will the SSPX pick door #1, which is the Personal Prelature deal, or door #2, which leads to the outer darkness, where there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth?
 
This teaching may be why the Eastern Orthodox are reluctant to any union with the Roman Catholic Church. They see the Roman Pope has first among equals in united Church, but not as someone who “trumps every doctor, every saint, every council and every pope that came before.”
This is old news. The Eastern Orthodox have a problem with the Petrine Succession. Unfortunately, nothing can be done about it, because it’s revelation.
Is it true that if summoned to Rome, Pope Michael will normalize the status of the SSPX?:confused:
Who is Pope Michael?
I think the comments at the bottom of the article were silly to the extreme. To believe that such an offer would come from the CDF without Pope Benedict’s approval is unrealistic. First of all, Archbishop Mueller is accountable to Pope Benedict. Secondly, he is the chief scholar of the Ratzinger Foundation, which means that he and the Holy Father are very close. The Holy Father appointed him to both posts, the CDF and the RF. Third, but not least, it was probably Archbishop DiNoia who penned the letter, because he is the man assigned to help resolve this problem. No Dominican Friar would go behind the Pope’s back. It would be very inconsistent within the Mendicant Tradition.

The hope that some people have that Archbishop Mueller will be replaced is also unrealistic. While it is true that every post in the Vatican becomes vacant upon the vacancy of the See of Peter, it is also true that popes do not like to make quick changes in staffing. There is a need for some continuity. The CDF just changed leadership less than one year ago. To change leadership so soon would be extraordinary, but not impossible.

Nothing is impossible for God and few things are impossible for the pope.

I believe that if this report is true, the February 22nd deadline is authorized by Pope Benedict so as to begin the process before his papacy comes to a close. It’s a very good move on his part. The new pope is unlikely to kill something that is in progress.

We’ll just have to wait and see what happens between now and then. All we can do is to pray. Speculating who will say what or do whatever is only that, speculation. In the meantime, life goes on and there are many things in our immediate present that concern all of us. They’ll sort it out over there. I’m not worried about it.
 
His family and friends were sedevacantists that voted him Pope. I think the term is now conclavist. He considers a room in his house to be the Vatican in exile.

Here is the wiki article. I will not link his site.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bawden
Yes, I was just being silly. Besides Pope Michael left the SSPX many years before he was elected pope-in-exile, so I doubt that he would prove a friend to the society even if he were elected pope of the universal Church.🤷
 
The SSPX is deluded if they don’t take this offer, since none of them will see another in their lifetimes.

I also like the proviso in the offer. They can take the offer and be reconciled as a whole, or Rome will accommodate their priests individually. Either way, there will be a final resolution to this mess, as there ought to be.

Thank God for Pope Benedict!
 
***Rorate can independently confirm the report --hinted at just now in Le Forum Catholique – that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has sent a letter with a final offer to the Society of Saint Pius X (FSSPX / SSPX): resume the dialogue with the Holy See by February 22, or else the Holy See will make an offer of reconciliation and full communion to individual SSPX priests. (What kind of offer or structural basis will be offered is unclear.)

Read More…***
The SSPX is deluded if they don’t take this offer, since none of them will see another in their lifetimes.

I also like the proviso in the offer. They can take the offer and be reconciled as a whole, or Rome will accommodate their priests individually. Either way, there will be a final resolution to this mess, as there ought to be.

Thank God for Pope Benedict!
I have said repeatedly that this will end with each member of the SSPX being called by God to look into the mirror and decide individually where his allegiance lies, that there will be no group reconcilliation.

He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:15-16)

Jesus asked the disciples who they thought he was, and Peter replied. Jesus asks each of us the same thing at some point in our lives, and my belief is that the Chair of Peter will ask every member of the SSPX to answer the same question individually - who do you say that I am?

Each member will have to examine himself and decide in the depths of his own heart individually.

-Tim-
 
His brother Msgr. Georg has said that the SSPX was one of the issues that was bitter to the Holy Father. But I don’t believe he is acting in anger, not at all. I think he is acting with the most generosity - as a loving Father - to give them another chance at humble submission. Another chance for the virtues of Faith, Hope, and Charity to be manifest through obedience and love for the Universal Church.

Now again is the time to pray and sacrifice.
 
I like that he will offer this to the SSPX priests individually, too.

Here’s an anecdote. Not that long ago an SSPX priest was asked why they didn’t offer obedience to the Holy Father. He said, “The Holy Father hasn’t called me up and asked me to do anything.”

Well, the 'phone is ringing, Father.
 
I like that he will offer this to the SSPX priests individually, too.

Here’s an anecdote. Not that long ago an SSPX priest was asked why they didn’t offer obedience to the Holy Father. He said, "The Holy Father hasn’t called me up and asked me to do anything."
Well, the 'phone is ringing, Father.
Oh MY, that is so arrogant! To presume that the Pope has to call each one up individually! Just like I said to Anglican friends before the Anglican Ordinariate was set up - there is nothing stopping you from reconcilling individually. Many did, not through any influence of mine, but because they knew that the One True Church is where they needed to be.

Anyway, I will continue to pray for reconcilliation whether individually or as a group. As Br JR says though, I have many responsibilities of my own and I am very grateful that leading this negotiation is not one of them!
 
Oh MY, that is so arrogant! To presume that the Pope has to call each one up individually! Just like I said to Anglican friends before the Anglican Ordinariate was set up - there is nothing stopping you from reconcilling individually. Many did, not through any influence of mine, but because they knew that the One True Church is where they needed to be.
If you understood their mindset, you would understand why. That is all I can say.
 
worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/12/16936793-popes-brother-pontiff-was-troubled-by-butlers-revelations?lite

Man, It is a good thing I am limiting my internet access for lent. I can’t take much more of the secular media.

I have never known that the group formerly known as the SSPX is now the “Brotherhood of pius” And that that along with the butler are the reason the Pope is stepping down.:rolleyes:
Honestly, how can we live in a country and time that hates us so much.🤷
If you feel the need to vomit. Read comments in the news stories.
The SSPX is topic of conversation among Catholics who do not speak English;)
“Pius Brotherhood”, but that is only the literal translation of the name by which the SSPX is known in German
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-last-chance-for-sspx-plus-sspx-in.html
 
I think the comments at the bottom of the article were silly to the extreme. To believe that such an offer would come from the CDF without Pope Benedict’s approval is unrealistic. …

I believe that if this report is true, the February 22nd deadline is authorized by Pope Benedict so as to begin the process before his papacy comes to a close. It’s a very good move on his part. The new pope is unlikely to kill something that is in progress.
I don’t think the SSPX will be offered anything new or different. He is giving them a chance to surrender which I believe he expects they will ignore. Then, he can offer reconciliation to the individual priests. This is from the article in America on Papal transition:

Who governs the church between the pope’s death/resignation and the election of a new pope?

All the cardinals and archbishops in charge of departments in the Roman Curia, including the secretary of state (Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone), lose their jobs when the pope dies. The ordinary faculties of these offices, which are run by their secretaries during the interregnum, do not cease on the death of the pope, but serious and controversial matters are to await the election of a new pope. The offices are run by their secretaries who remain in position, as do the secretary for relations with states (Archbishop Dominique Mamberti) and the sostituto (Archbishop Giovanni Becciu). If the matter cannot be postponed, the college of cardinals can entrust it to the prefect or president who was in charge of the office when the pope died (or to other cardinals who were members of that congregation or council). Any decision made is provisional until confirmed by the new pope.

Three major officials do not lose their jobs: the vicar of the diocese of Rome (Cardinal Agostino Vallini), the major penitentiary (Cardinal Manuel Monteiro de Castro) and the camerlengo. The vicar for Rome provides for the pastoral needs of the diocese of Rome and continues to have all the powers he had under the deceased pope. The major penitentiary deals with confessional matters reserved to the Holy See, and he is allowed to continue functioning because the door to forgiveness should never be closed.

The camerlengo (Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone) is the most important official during the interregnum. While the pope is alive, he has the authority to act for the pope in certain areas when the pope is away from Rome. On the death of the pope, the camerlengo takes charge of and administers the property and money of the Holy See, with the help of three cardinal assistants chosen by lot from among those cardinals under 80. During the interregnum he reports to the college of cardinals, which governs the church until a pope is elected. He also organizes the conclave. By appointing the cardinal secretary of state as the camerlengo, Benedict simplified the organizational structure and made sure that his secretary of state had an important role during the interregnum.

Although the government of the church is in the hands of the college of cardinals until a new pope is elected, the powers of the college are limited. It cannot change the rules governing papal elections, appoint cardinals or make any decisions binding on the next pope. The cardinals meet daily in a general congregation, presided over by the dean of the college (Cardinal Angelo Sodano), until the conclave begins. All the cardinals attend the general congregation, although attendance by those over 80 is optional. A commission headed by the camerlengo with three cardinals (chosen by lot and replaced every three days from among the cardinals under 80) can deal with lesser issues.

Benedict XVI has a plan he will put into place just before he leaves and that will be carried out by the CDF and Cardinal Bertone during the “interregnum” because they really have no choice. The Pope didn’t create all those Cardinals to have his plan thwarted, and the SSPX knows that after he resigns no Pope will appear who will bow to their demands. Not only do SSPX leaders know this, the priests of the SSPX know, also.

I don’t think the Pope will threaten excommunication as he hasn’t time left to give them a chance to come home. While he can’t bind the next Pope, he can create a situation where the last move on the board is ineluctable.
 

Rorate can independently confirm the report --hinted at just now in Le Forum Catholique – that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has sent a letter with a final offer to the Society of Saint Pius X (FSSPX / SSPX): resume the dialogue with the Holy See by February 22, or else the Holy See will make an offer of reconciliation and full communion to individual SSPX priests.]

I don’t see where this “offer of reconciliation and full communion to individual SSPX priests” is anything new because can’t any SSPX priest simply join the Fraternity of St. Peter at any time?
 
I don’t see where this “offer of reconciliation and full communion to individual SSPX priests” is anything new because can’t any SSPX priest simply join the Fraternity of St. Peter at any time?
There is no official pathway for this, but likely, yes, they can on a case-to-case basis.
 
There is no official pathway for this, but likely, yes, they can on a case-to-case basis.
I’ve taken a look at the link you posted about the SSPX being given a “last chance” - if Rorate can independently confirm this - then why don’t they do so? Sorry to be a spoil sport, but this “letter” is only being talked about on trad or radtrad sites and there is nothing anywhere else. Also their source is comment on a French blogsite.:confused: It’s more likely that this is the letter they refer to:

** Di Noia sends letter to SSPX priests - via Menzingen **

This is the main part of the information shared by Riposte Catholique (in French):

Each priest of the Society of Saint Pius X [FSSPX / SSPX] has received a very long letter by Abp. Di Noia, Vice-President of the Ecclesia Dei Commission.
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/01/di-noia-sends-letter-to-sspx-priests.html

This is the only ‘news’ of interest right now:
**CDF Challenges German Bishops and SSPX **

"Also the The theme of the “Pius Society” which he spelled out clearly. The patience of the Vatican with the separation of Traditionalists is not endless:*** “The Congregation has presented the Society with the Dogmatic Preamble. There has been no answer to it. We won’t wait forever.”*** Archbishop Mueller
eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2013/02/cdf-challenges-german-bishops-and-sspx.html
 
The level of testiness and finger-wagging towards the SSPX is comical.

The current Pope has resigned. There seems to be an indication that the SSPX must sign a document before the next one is elected or … what? They’ll be excommunicated again?

Rome/The Pope/The Vatican/The CDF have said “You must accept Vatican 2”.
They have asked “What is there in Vatican 2 that requires the assent due to dogma? Also, we have these concerns …”.
Rome/The Pope/The Vatican/The CDF replies “You must accept Vatican 2”.

Like Vat2 is a dogma in itself, like the Immaculate Conception. But no specifics.

I think the documents of the council will fade into history. They’re not as important as they are made out to be. Other councils were called to address very serious issues. This one wasn’t.

PS: It’s been suggested that the SSPX issue pained the Pope because of the barracking he got , even from German bishops, about his moves to reconcile with them. Not from anything the SSPX did.
 
There is no official pathway for this, but likely, yes, they can on a case-to-case basis.
What if Rome offered the priests their own personal prelature without the Bishops involvement. Rome creates or expands something like the FSSP specifically for individual priests that adheres to the document Fellay should sign?
 
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