SSPX Update - Redux

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Actually, the discussion was triggered by Bishop Fellay’s latest comment which triggered an strong response from the Holy See.

Br. JR, FFV 🙂


Geesh I am all turned around and lost.

What what the response by the Holy See?

Trying to keep up while calming a newborn leads me to miss some things.
 
I don’t know if this has been posted before, but here is a press release from the SSPX USA District dated January 5, 2013 regarding Bishop Fellay’s comments about Jews being enemies of the Church:

Sounds reasonable to me.

There is so much fear about being labeled anti-Semitic that Catholics cannot even pray for the conversion of the Jews anymore. The Good Friday prayer for the Jews is so ambiguous – praying for Jews to “more closely follow the covenant” – edited by moderator
Interesting. I had not seen that. This is at least a good thing. Well, as good as we can expect from the SSPX lately. That they would clarify and back away from the statements is a good thing!
 
Interesting. I had not seen that. This is at least a good thing. Well, as good as we can expect from the SSPX lately. That they would clarify and back away from the statements is a good thing!
Moore, agreed that the “clarification” was a good thing, and agree that it was “as good as we can expect.” However, did it go far enough? It seems to me that it’s as if someone bashed the Church but then a few days later said, “oh, the remarks weren’t about those in the pews, only about the Pope and his bishops.”

That being said, I do agree, any retraction of the anti-Semitic remarks is a good retraction. Something more humble would have been nice, but perhaps that is forthcoming…🤷
 
There was quite a bit of updated news when the discussions were going back and forth over the summer and early fall. It has been quieter until recently (and the old thread reflects that). However, when Bishop Fellay came out with his recent statements, that was definately an update!
Yes, and rather than complaining, someone who is new to this ongoing discussion might endeavor to sleuth out some startling new development in the ongoing saga of SSPX versus the universe! We need more cub reporters on the Daily Redux! Who’da thunk, for example, that the very latest bulletin- as of Jan. 5th anyway- would come via a drop-in poster who is a self-styled atheist! You just never know…but even Jimmy Olson had to start somewhere!

So get out there and dig, people and remember- it’s not news until we make it news! (If you don’t believe me, check out Yahoo “News”)
 
Yes, and rather than complaining, someone who is new to this ongoing discussion might endeavor to sleuth out some startling new development in the ongoing saga of SSPX versus the universe! We need more cub reporters on the Daily Redux! Who’da thunk, for example, that the very latest bulletin- as of Jan. 5th anyway- would come via a drop-in poster who is a self-styled atheist! You just never know…but even Jimmy Olson had to start somewhere!

So get out there and dig, people and remember- it’s not news until we make it news! (If you don’t believe me, check out Yahoo “News”)
👍
 
Yes, and rather than complaining, someone who is new to this ongoing discussion might endeavor to sleuth out some startling new development in the ongoing saga of SSPX versus the universe! We need more cub reporters on the Daily Redux! Who’da thunk, for example, that the very latest bulletin- as of Jan. 5th anyway- would come via a drop-in poster who is a self-styled atheist! You just never know…but even Jimmy Olson had to start somewhere!

So get out there and dig, people and remember- it’s not news until we make it news! (If you don’t believe me, check out Yahoo “News”)
Too funny and well said. 🙂
 
Am I the only person in the world who uses the term “redux” in ordinary conversation? It’s a great word.

I almost think “no news is good news” at this point, unless it comes directly from the Vatican.
 
I don’t know if this has been posted before, but here is a press release from the SSPX USA District dated January 5, 2013 regarding Bishop Fellay’s comments about Jews being enemies of the Church:
During a 2-hour conference given in Ontario, Canada on December 28th, 2012, Bishop Bernard Fellay, Superior General of the Society St. Pius X, commented on the relations between the Holy See and the SSPX during the last two years.
It is not reasonable. The Jews are not enemies of the Church no matter how the word “Enemies” is defined. I know many Jews who are married to Catholics and who have become Catholics. I know many Jews - reformed, conservative and orthodox - and have sat up nights having conversations with them, and have never met one who is opposed to the Church’s mission to save souls.

Such a position is hardly reasonable. It doesn’t matter who the author of such a comment was referring to; ordinary Jews in the street or organizational leaders. Using the word “Jew” and the phrase “Enemies of the Church” in the same train of thought is wildly reckless, utterly irresponsible and show a complete lack of judgement. The press release is backpeddaling at best, and the twisting of scripture to do so shows how extremest and radical the position being defended really is.

One can pay lip service to praying for the conversion of Jews but statements like this work against their conversion, not for it. I’d rather have one faithful Jewish friend than ten Catholic friends who say such things.

-Tim-
 
It is not reasonable. The Jews are not enemies of the Church no matter how the word “Enemies” is defined. I know many Jews who are married to Catholics and who have become Catholics. I know many Jews - reformed, conservative and orthodox - and have sat up nights having conversations with them, and have never met one who is opposed to the Church’s mission to save souls.

Such a position is hardly reasonable. It doesn’t matter who the author of such a comment was referring to; ordinary Jews in the street or organizational leaders. Using the word “Jew” and the phrase “Enemies of the Church” in the same train of thought is wildly reckless, utterly irresponsible and show a complete lack of judgement. The press release is backpeddaling at best, and the twisting of scripture to do so shows how extremest and radical the position being defended really is.

One can pay lip service to praying for the conversion of Jews but statements like this work against their conversion, not for it. I’d rather have one faithful Jewish friend than ten Catholic friends who say such things.

-Tim-
Question: what does a study of Judaism show up as regards an anti-Catholic attitude? This, of course, making complete and utter abstraction of any Jew. There is perhaps a parallel with Islam. I know some Moslems (there is one at the place where I work) and I get along fine with them. I even managed a discussion on the nature of the Trinity with one, at the end of which he told me: “If you tried talking like that in Saudi Arabia you’d be dead, you know that?” A Moslem can be one thing, Islam another.

But perhaps this subject will derail the thread.
 
Am I the only person in the world who uses the term “redux” in ordinary conversation? It’s a great word.

I almost think “no news is good news” at this point, unless it comes directly from the Vatican.
I haven’t been- using redux in everyday conversation that is- but I’m definitely going to start. Are there adjectival and adverbial forms of the word? Would juvenile anatidaeans in the plural be redux?
 
Not disagreeing with you Justin, but I wonder, if those in the pews at the SSPX chapel are fully aware that their priests do not have faculties, how they came to know this? On the two occasions I have assisted at an SSPX Mass I haven’t had occasion to hold a conversation with anyone, but if the SSPX faithful aren’t in regular contact with anyone from the diocese, how could they be convinced that the priests lack faculties? There were a couple of SSPX-goers on the old thread, perhaps they will show up here and expound.

I was particularly fascinated by your suggestion that the SSPX faithful might be convinced that their priests have “extraordinary jurisdiction supplied directly by the Church.” This begs the question, the Church in what era? Perhaps this extraordinary jurisdiction is supplied by St. Pius X himself…after all, as a saint he is most definitely part of the Church.
Again, you raise fascinating points!🙂
They know that the SSPX priests do not have faculties. Very few people start attending the SSPX on a regular basis without checking them out.

I will try to explain as best as I can how they justify the two sacraments of Penance and Matrimony without their priests having jurisdiction for either.

They are convinced that the Church is in a severe crisis. A lot of them also doubt whether the new Rite of Ordination is valid. Also, even if they think that the new Rite of Ordination is valid, they are afraid that the priest they go to for confession won’t use the proper words for absolution. In any event, they are told and have come to believe that any contact with the Church is a threat to their faith. All of these things rolled together supplies, so they are told, jurisdiction to the SSPX priests.

I am not sure if I am making myself understood or even if I am writing clearly.
 
II know many Jews who are married to Catholics and who have become Catholics.
-Tim-
If I remember correctly, Brother Jay converted from Judaism.

There was an exhibit in New Orleans of local Holocaust survivors. It was very moving. A little old lady walked up to me. My first thought was the she was a little, old Jewish grandmother. Don’t ask me why. I was appalled when she said “They all deserve to die. They crucified Christ.”

No, Jews are not the enemy of the Church.
 
Question: what does a study of Judaism show up as regards an anti-Catholic attitude? This, of course, making complete and utter abstraction of any Jew. There is perhaps a parallel with Islam. I know some Moslems (there is one at the place where I work) and I get along fine with them. I even managed a discussion on the nature of the Trinity with one, at the end of which he told me: “If you tried talking like that in Saudi Arabia you’d be dead, you know that?” A Moslem can be one thing, Islam another.

But perhaps this subject will derail the thread.
The original comments and the backpeddaling press release both say Jews, not Judaism but J-e-w-s, Jews.

Reckless, irrepsonsible and disgusting is what it is.

-Tim-
 
The original comments and the backpeddaling press release both say Jews, not Judaism but J-e-w-s, Jews.

Reckless, irrepsonsible and disgusting is what it is.

-Tim-
And even if it said Judaism, it would still be reckless, irresponsible and disgusting.

The Catholic Church doesn’t play tit for tat. It doesn’t matter what someone says about us. What we say about them should always be the truth in love.
 
If I remember correctly, Brother Jay converted from Judaism.

There was an exhibit in New Orleans of local Holocaust survivors. It was very moving. A little old lady walked up to me. My first thought was the she was a little, old Jewish grandmother. Don’t ask me why. I was appalled when she said “They all deserve to die. They crucified Christ.”

No, Jews are not the enemy of the Church.
Did you ask her if she hates all Romans as well, since technically it was Roman soldiers who crucified Christ?
 
The original comments and the backpeddaling press release both say Jews, not Judaism but J-e-w-s, Jews.

Reckless, irrepsonsible and disgusting is what it is.

-Tim-
I know. I was thinking of the past. There has been a strange hostility between Jewry and Catholicism from virtually the time of Christ until the present - in fact antisemitism extends well beyond Catholic circles. I’m wondering where it comes from (no good saying Hitler - *he *got it from somewhere).

The old Universal Prayers on Good Friday included a prayer for the conversion of the ‘perfidious Jews’. Bear in mind this prayer was said every Good Friday in every church right up to Vatican II. It doesn’t really answer to say that until then all Catholics were religious bigots. That’s a lot of Catholics!

It might just be circumstances of history. After the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70 Jews no longer had a homeland. Most of them subsequently found themselves living in Catholic states. This was a time where Church and State were not separated, which meant that the Jews represented a grain of sand in the gears. But there may have been more to it than that. I was wondering if there is anything in Judaism that represents an opposition to Catholicism, as there is in Islam.

Again, this make abstraction of individual Jews. I’ve known quite a few and found them very pleasant folks, not anti-Catholic at all. My favourite high school teacher was a Jew. One of my all-time favourite films is ‘The Pianist’.
 
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