SSPX Update - Redux

  • Thread starter Thread starter Melchior_1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
oldcatholicguy said:
The usher’s actions disturb me. I’m pretty ignorant when it comes to the religious, but telling a religious how to dress or barring them from going into Mass are near the top of my “things I really shouldn’t try to do” list.
Click to expand...
There is more to the story, or a sequel as I recall vis-a-vis his encounter with the SSPX priest, if Br. JR chooses to relate it here.
 
Faithdancer said:
Here is the dress code on the sign in front of the entrance to the lone church in our diocese which offers the Tridentine Mass:

http://www.sansecondodasti.org/images/dress code.jpg
Click to expand...
That’s the same sign that they have at St. Peter’s in Rome.
oldcatholicguy said:
The usher’s actions disturb me. I’m pretty ignorant when it comes to the religious, but telling a religious how to dress or barring them from going into Mass are near the top of my “things I really shouldn’t try to do” list.
Click to expand...
I thought the dress thing was funny. Telling me that I couldn’t go back in, because the mass was in progress bothered me, because the only reason that I was in the vestibule was because he signaled me to follow him.
Faithdancer said:
There is more to the story, or a sequel as I recall vis-a-vis his encounter with the SSPX priest, if Br. JR chooses to relate it here.
Click to expand...
My encounter with the priest was interesting. Let’s leave it a that. His homily was good. Though I don’t think he liked the word homily. I didn’t think to say “sermon”. I’m used to homily. I didn’t mean any disrespect.
 
Faithdancer said:
Folks need to be careful here, or this thread will never even get close to 1000. To wit: cutting and pasting, then praising a long blog wherein someone else labels SSPX a cult is pretty much the same thing as directly calling SSPX a cult. Second, quoting someone else as saying SSPX as a “bunch of idiots” is pretty much the same thing as saying that directly. These tactics are unworthy, transparently prejudicial and need to be avoided.🙂
Click to expand...
I don’t agree with your condemnation that these are “tactics”. Surely there is still such a thing as freedom of speech and/or discusion:confused:without the tired blanket accusation of lack of charity and name calling? Is any discussion of the SSPX’s or any other organizations cult-like qualities or similarities banned on CAF - I don’t think so - to me it’s a convenient ‘cop out’.

Also, do you have something against the posting of hard or newsworthy information? Continued disparaging references to cutting/pasting are likely to discourage factual and objective discussion - leaving the door wide open to IMO’s and disturbing hypotheses (e.g. whether or not we should obey the Pope should he tell a man and woman to sleep in the same bed) that are not only irrelevant to this thread but which are irreverant and offensive.

To the best of my knowledge no poster here has ‘labelled’ the SSPX as a cult, even though having been accused of doing so. I’m sure they will be as fed up as I am.
 
PaulinVA said:
Well, you can’t claim orthodoxy or that you are the defender of the true faith if you do that while suspended for schismatic acts. It doesn’t make sense.

I believe that the SSPX priests, like all people who have things to repent of, should repent and take up a ministry in the Church, HOWEVER, their past behavior, from their ordination to their illicit Masses to their confessions without faculties preclude them from ever talking the high moral ground as the saviors of the Church.
Click to expand...
:yup:…Archbishop Mueller appears to agree with you too…

If they do come back, what positive aspects could they bring to the Church?
They could underline what Tradition is, but they also must become broader in their perspective, because the apostolic Tradition of the Church is not only about a few elements. The Tradition of the Church is large and wide. On the other hand, there must also be a renewal in the celebration of the liturgy, because we have had a lot of abuses of the liturgy, which have damaged the faith of many people.
Code: 
*Could they perhaps help correct some of the abuses?*
That is not their task, but ours. One extreme cannot be the equivalent  of the other. The extremes must be corrected by the center.
Read more: ncregister.com/daily-news/archbishop-mueller-on-the-sspx-and-his-controversial-writings/#ixzz2Iwx3V4kY
 
JReducation said:
My encounter with the priest was interesting. Let’s leave it a that. His homily was good. Though I don’t think he liked the word homily. I didn’t think to say “sermon”. I’m used to homily. I didn’t mean any disrespect.
Click to expand...
That’s really funny, actually. My beloved and I were having this discussion not too long ago. Since we go to both an EF and OF Mass, we get both “sermons” and “homilies”, depending on the week. We were talking about the homily at the OF Mass and my husband said, “What does that mean anyway? Why don’t they just say sermon?”

I didn’t know, so I got out the dictionary. We wanted to know if it was a “liberal” invention. I could go into a whole separate conversation about the vernacular of the SSPX, and how after some conditioning words like “homily” make you wince. And I think that’s what was happening to the priest in Brother’s anecdote.

Anyway, here’s what I learned:

Sermon - an address delivered by a priest to instruct or exhort a congregation.
Homily - a sermon in which spiritual values are discussed in relation to some practical subject.

So, nothing about the word homily is disrespectful, anyway. But it’s interesting how war can be waged with language.
 
Dee_S said:
I don’t agree with your condemnation that these are “tactics”. Surely there is still such a thing as freedom of speech and/or discusion:confused:without the tired blanket accusation of lack of charity and name calling? Is any discussion of the SSPX’s or any other organizations cult-like qualities or similarities banned on CAF - I don’t think so - to me it’s a convenient ‘cop out’.

Also, do you have something against the posting of hard or newsworthy information? Continued disparaging references to cutting/pasting are likely to discourage factual and objective discussion - leaving the door wide open to IMO’s and disturbing hypotheses (e.g. whether or not we should obey the Pope should he tell a man and woman to sleep in the same bed) that are not only irrelevant to this thread but which are irreverant and offensive.

To the best of my knowledge no poster here has ‘labelled’ the SSPX as a cult, even though having been accused of doing so. I’m sure they will be as fed up as I am.
Click to expand...
In your case, Dee, considering the general thrust of the material you usually cut and paste, I apologize if the use of the word “tactics” offended you. I had never seen something like that in one of your posts before, and it seemed very atypical. In this one case, after all, you are posting statements from EWTN which, though a highly respectable source, are from 2003, years before Pope Benedict lifted the excommunications. Currently, SSPX is not in schism and its remaining bishops are not excommunicated. So why post something from that long ago?

As far as “cult-like” I think that term is disingenious. It is a favorite term of some, though, who love to apply it to Opus Dei as well, or any organization inside or outside the Church which does not condone same sex “marriage,” Planned Parenthood, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Knights of Columbus labelled as “cult-like” because of the “secrecy” of their meetings and their general social conservativeness. I know none of this applies to you, Dee, but I think the term “cult-like” can be just as damaging as saying “cult.” I’m not saying you use it in a sophistic way, but others on these forums may.
 
GloriaMaria said:
Sermon - an address delivered by a priest to instruct or exhort a congregation.
Homily - a sermon in which spiritual values are discussed in relation to some practical subject.
Click to expand...
According to these two definitions, a priest is required to deliver either a homily or a sermon, since all homilies are sermons (but not all sermons are homilies).
 
GloriaMaria said:
That’s really funny, actually. My beloved and I were having this discussion not too long ago. Since we go to both an EF and OF Mass, we get both “sermons” and “homilies”, depending on the week. We were talking about the homily at the OF Mass and my husband said, “What does that mean anyway? Why don’t they just say sermon?”

I didn’t know, so I got out the dictionary. We wanted to know if it was a “liberal” invention. I could go into a whole separate conversation about the vernacular of the SSPX, and how after some conditioning words like “homily” make you wince. And I think that’s what was happening to the priest in Brother’s anecdote.

Anyway, here’s what I learned:

Sermon - an address delivered by a priest to instruct or exhort a congregation.
Homily - a sermon in which spiritual values are discussed in relation to some practical subject.

So, nothing about the word homily is disrespectful, anyway. But it’s interesting how war can be waged with language.
Click to expand...
Faithdancer said:
According to these two definitions, a priest is required to deliver either a homily or a sermon, since all homilies are sermons (but not all sermons are homilies).
Click to expand...
In Homiletics we learned it this way. A homily is a sermon that leads to a practical application. If it stays at the level of idea, it’s not a homily. It’s a sermon, as long as it’s spiritual that is.
 
GloriaMaria said:
Anyway, here’s what I learned:

Sermon - an address delivered by a priest to instruct or exhort a congregation.
Homily - a sermon in which spiritual values are discussed in relation to some practical subject.

So, nothing about the word homily is disrespectful, anyway. But it’s interesting how war can be waged with language.
Click to expand...
Why on earth would discussing spiritual values in relation to a practical subject be something denigrated enough to make you wince? That’s sort of the point, isn’t it? Jesus and Saint Paul did rather a lot of this.

I’m confused. :confused:
 
ATTENTION PLEASE

Let’s limit ourselves to using language that the Holy See uses.

If you don’t know who or what the Holy See is, pay attention:
  1. Pope
  2. Prefect of the CDF
  3. Vice President of the Ecclesia Dei Commission
  4. All of the Congregations of the Vatican
If you pay attention, you will not hear words such as:
  1. Cult
  2. Heretics
  3. Schismatics
  4. Apostates
If you feel that you must use such language in order to speak about the SSPX, don’t post. The terms do not apply and are offensive to many people.

The same applies to the other side of the room.

We don’t want to see terms such as
  1. Novus Ordo parish, mass, church, Catholic, etc.
  2. Conciliar Church
  3. Modernists
  4. Heretics
  5. All . . .
  6. Every . . .
As the saying goes, if you can’t be nice, stop talking.

You will be suspended without any warning.
 
GloriaMaria said:
Sermon - an address delivered by a priest to instruct or exhort a congregation.
Homily - a sermon in which spiritual values are discussed in relation to some practical subject…
Click to expand...
I think I am going to go back to my roots and just call it preaching, as it, “That was some fine preachin’, Father.”
 
Thomas_Casey said:
**
** As the saying goes, if you can’t be nice, stop talking.

You will be suspended without any warning.
Click to expand...
Oops! Back to lurking. As long as Brother keeps posting, I can’t keep away, though. I will jump back in if I think of anything funny.
 
JReducation said:
In Homiletics we learned it this way. A homily is a sermon that leads to a practical application. If it stays at the level of idea, it’s not a homily. It’s a sermon, as long as it’s spiritual that is.
Click to expand...
Maybe that explains why a deacon told me a while back that homilies are meant to inspire, not to catechize. But is catechism considered a “practical application?” It sounds like he was describing a sermon, not a homily, according to your definition. :confused:

Personally, I like a dose of theology in a homily. Maybe even some Thomistic thought. Would that be a sermon, or a homily? Anyway, the last homily/sermon I heard was kind of deep that way…if I could just remember now what it was about.😊
 
Faithdancer said:
Maybe that explains why a deacon told me a while back that homilies are meant to inspire, not to catechize. But is catechism considered a “practical application?” It sounds like he was describing a sermon, not a homily, according to your definition. :confused:

Personally, I like a dose of theology in a homily. Maybe even some Thomistic thought. Would that be a sermon, or a homily? Anyway, the last homily/sermon I heard was kind of deep that way…if I could just remember now what it was about.😊
Click to expand...
It seems to me that the best use of “that time where the priest talks to us” is a healthy mixture of Scriptural exegesis, how to prudently apply Church teaching in daily life, and catechesis.
 
YoungTradCath said:
It seems to me that the best use of “that time where the priest talks to us” is a healthy mixture of Scriptural exegesis, how to prudently apply Church teaching in daily life, and catechesis.
Click to expand...
Yes, a mix. I personally like a little,…er… exhortation too,but that isn’t too common among Catholics.
 
pnewton said:
Yes, a mix. I personally like a little,…er… exhortation too,but that isn’t too common among Catholics.
Click to expand...
Does excess exhortation lead to hand holding? Ha just kidding. Woops, sorry Mr. Casey! :whistle:
 
Yes…good night Dee…Br. JR…Mr. Casey…PNewton…Young Trad…John Boy…🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top