SSPX update?

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And I did exactly the same thing when I belonged to a Church who was being disobedient to Rome, but because I was on the other side of the “traditional fence”, I was open game for all sorts fo nasty, negative remarks about my brand of Catholicism. I was wrong. I was trying to make the Church be something that she could not be, becasue I thought it was better. I repented, confessed, and came back to full- communion. It was hard, because I had to swallow my pride, and that’s exactly what I see as the problem here- PRIDE, plain & simple!
The SSPX is doing the exact same thing. Just because their rallying cry is “We are trying to uphold Tradition”, does not mean that they are any more correct than an organization that supports Woman’s ordination or same-sex marriage within the Church.

Bottom line here, Justin, is that there is nothing, nothing at all that you can say that will ever make me have any sympathy for the SSPX. They have, IMHO, done more harm than good to the Church, especially with this last round of comments from Bishop Fellay. 😦
Oneofthewomen, I can appreciate what happened to you, having seen it happen to someone else who came to the Catholic Faith via the SSPX, attended precisely two Masses at an SSPX priory, and never came back. A very good woman too, who taught problem children at a primary school level. She got one taste of the faithful of that chapel and that was enough. She would have coped far better in a couple of other Mass centres I can think of.

Point is, I am not in any way promoting the SSPX, but it think it unfair to apply blanket epithets to the SSPX faithful when only some of them deserve it. A good number are very simple down-to-earth people who have as much pride as the publican, believe me. This whole situation is very sad because it has caught up good people who simply want to live good lives.
 
:eek: Seminary in their teens or early 20’s? Just how much training in pastoral care do they actually receive in an SSPX seminary? How on earth can someone so young provide pastoral care to individuals, couples, or families? You would think they would require at least a college degree before taking on that aspect of being a priest!
:rolleyes:
This was common for centuries in the entire Church. many saints were young priests.
You are insulting an entire history of priests by insinuating they were not properly formed.
 
:rolleyes:
This was common for centuries in the entire Church. many saints were young priests.
You are insulting an entire history of priests by insinuating they were not properly formed.
Did it occur to you we live in much different times with much more complex issues to deal with? Apparently not.:rolleyes:
That’s not an insult to priests of the past- that’s just a fact!
 
Did it occur to you we live in much different times with much more complex issues to deal with? Apparently not. That’s not an insult to priests of the past- that’s just a fact! :rolleyes:
Yeah. Our society is much more complex than the middle ages, or the time of the black death. All sins are new and modern. :rolleyes:
Look, I known that it is human nature to either think we live in the best times or worst times but the fact of the matter is this. Priests, through time and geography have lead the flock through tougher and more complex times than this. The entirety of the Bible describes family situations, political situations, and social situations that make ours look like a 1950s family sitcom.
Today, in other countries people are formed at a very young age. The Pastor of our parish is from a south american country. He was formed at a young age in a program sponsored from our diocese in his village. Do you think he is ill formed? Should I consider his absolution invalid because he did not grow up with a propper modern american experience. Why even in America years ago young boys were put into early training for the priesthood. We have titles for them Acolytes, alterboys, and such.

I know it is in fashion to bash the SSPX for every little thing but I’d take the knowledge of the moral faith of a new SSPX priest and put it up against the knowledge of the faith of the average joe who went to seminary in the 60s and 70s any day!!

We can argue all day about the SSPX but you should really look into the history of our faith and our priests before you attack a practice that makes a ton of sense to me.
 
Yeah. Our society is much more complex than the middle ages, or the time of the black death. All sins are new and modern. :rolleyes:
Look, I known that it is human nature to either think we live in the best times or worst times but the fact of the matter is this. Priests, through time and geography have lead the flock through tougher and more complex times than this. The entirety of the Bible describes family situations, political situations, and social situations that make ours look like a 1950s family sitcom.
Today, in other countries people are formed at a very young age. The Pastor of our parish is from a south american country. He was formed at a young age in a program sponsored from our diocese in his village. Do you think he is ill formed? Should I consider his absolution invalid because he did not grow up with a propper modern american experience. Why even in America years ago young boys were put into early training for the priesthood. We have titles for them Acolytes, alterboys, and such.

I know it is in fashion to bash the SSPX for every little thing but I’d take the knowledge of the moral faith of a new SSPX priest and put it up against the knowledge of the faith of the average joe who went to seminary in the 60s and 70s any day!!

We can argue all day about the SSPX but you should really look into the history of our faith and our priests before you attack a practice that makes a ton of sense to me.
As I said in my first post, I was commenting on “pastoral care” and counseling. There’s a reason the seminaries that are faithful to the Magisterium require a bit more education and experience for admission (and ordination).

I see you couldn’t resist a little bashing of your own regarding your reference to “average joe who went to the seminary in the 60’s and 70’s”.
 
I think this dispute can best be resolved by Canon Law:

Can. 1031 §1. The presbyterate is not to be conferred except on those who have completed the twenty-fifth year of age and possess sufficient maturity; an interval of at least six months is to be observed between the diaconate and the presbyterate. Those destined to the presbyterate are to be admitted to the order of deacon only after completing the twenty-third year of age.

Seminary formation takes six years, so candidates may legally enter at 19 and be ordained at 25, provided they possess sufficient maturity, which is for the seminary rector to decide.
 
Will the US church ordain you without a college degree?
No, not in the US

If you read the Program of Priestly Formation, it will state that in the US, before you can even be admitted to seminary, you must have a Bachelor’s degree with sufficient education (I believe it’s 30 credit hours) in Philosphy & Theology.

Most priests (secular & regular) in the US, will receive what is called a Master’s of Divinity when the “graduate”.
 
No, not in the US

If you read the Program of Priestly Formation, it will state that in the US, before you can even be admitted to seminary, you must have a Bachelor’s degree with sufficient education (I believe it’s 30 credit hours) in Philosphy.

Most priests (secular & regular) in the US, will receive what is called a Master’s of Divinity when the “graduate”.
Thank you for that information. And thank you Justin, for what you provided. I was simply concerned that very young men were being ordained and then providing pastoral care and counseling to their parishioners with only training received in an SSPX seminary and without the benefit of a full college education or real life experience dealing with things outside of their insulated world.
 
No, not in the US

If you read the Program of Priestly Formation, it will state that in the US, before you can even be admitted to seminary, you must have a Bachelor’s degree with sufficient education (I believe it’s 30 credit hours) in Philosphy & Theology.

Most priests (secular & regular) in the US, will receive what is called a Master’s of Divinity when the “graduate”.
I thought this was the case throughout the world - the requirement for at least a degree.
 
Thank you for that information. And thank you Justin, for what you provided. I was simply concerned that very young men were being ordained and then providing pastoral care and counseling to their parishioners with only training received in an SSPX seminary and without the benefit of a full college education or real life experience dealing with things outside of their insulated world.
Pastoral care and counselling probably require at least ten years of priestly ministry before the priest really knows what he is talking about. Formation in fact didn’t stop when the newly-ordained priest left the seminary. In the past it was usual to put him with an older experienced priest and initially give him aspects of the ministry that didn’t require too much pastoral wisdom (I can’t comment on what happens today). Being a priest I think is a lot like many other professions. You learn to do it whilst doing it.

The trouble in the SSPX, at least in the beginning, is that the rapidly expanding Society was obliged to make young and freshly ordained priests superiors of priories. Many, quite simply, were not up to it.
 
We are talking of Catholic priests here I think we should be careful.

I could be wrong but I believe the SSPX priest go through more formation than “regular” priests.
 
True, sadly enough. But it is difficult for a non-SSPXer to comprehend the extent to which the mistrust for the Church inculcated in the SSPX .
At what point does mistrust of the Church become either the mistrust of the Holy Spirit or mistrust of the promise of Jesus? One generation? Two? At what point does the SSPX look at the historical reality in light of this promise and say,“Well, I guess we missed this one” or as Jesus told St. Paul, that all their well meant religious fervor was nothing but kicking against the goads. These are the questions that bother me as the years roll by. When does the SSPX become as the Old Catholic Church, or even as the Orthodox?
 
Some people are looking for a way to get around this jurisdiction issue. There is no way around it unless the Church allows it. It’s that simple. God does not factor in one’s psychological state. God does not factor in one’s preferences or one’s beliefs. Why not? God does not contradict his Church.

Canon Law comes from Peter himself. As St. Boniface said. Christ the Law Giver, but he gives the law to Peter. It resides in his heart. And only Peter can impose the law and only Peter can dispense from the law, because only to Peter has this power been given.

As long as Canon Law says that you need faculties granted by a legitimate ordinary in order to absolve, then you need such faculties. If you go to confession on Sat for an SSPX priest who has no faculties to absolve you and you are run down by a bus on Sunday, then you’re out of luck. Supplied jurisdiction is not retroactive. Supplied jurisdiction would be available to the priest who is at the scene of the accident. He can even be a heretic. As long as he intends to do what the Church does, the absolution is valid.

As to the Orthodox, there is a misunderstanding here. They are not schismatics. The Church has already said this about 20 years ago. They are in schism, which is not the same. The schismatics were the original people involved in the crisis, not their children. Christian tradition does not punish the child for the sins of the father. That’s the reason for lifting the excommunication on all Orthodox.

Second, their absolution is both valid and licit. Their priests do receive faculties from a valid ordinary. The bishop grants faculties. The bishop has the authority to grant faculties, because that bishop is not bound to Canon Law of the Latin Church.

Remember, our code of Canon Law only binds the Latin Church. If the SSPX had been Chaldean, Greek Catholic or Maronite, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. The pope does not have to approve the ordination of bishops in the Eastern Churches. He’s not their patriarch. The patriarch approves and then informs the pope. On the other hand, any ordination of a bishop without a mandate from the patriarch incurs an automatic excommunication. We would be having a different conversation if the were Eastern Catholic. To compare them with Anglicans and Orthodox does not work. Anglicans and Orthodox are not bound by the laws of the Latin Church.

As you can see, not all Catholics are bound by the laws of the Latin Church, only Latin Catholics. The SSPX is a Latin institution. As long as it insists that it is Catholic, then the Church has the right to insist that it submit to its authority.

As long as my adult child insists that he has a right to live under my roof, I have a right to insist that he do so under my rules. He has two choices, submit to my rules or move out. As a father, I’m willing to hear him out. If I can change some things I will. But I have no moral obligation to change anything to accommodate to him who has no rights over my authority. Any changes that I make are an act of charity and compassion, not justice.

As long as authority is exercised according to the law and the faith of the Church, the pope and the curia has no obligation to accommodate to any of us, because it’s authority is legitimate. It’s been handed down by Christ. It’s exercise of its authority is legitimate, since it does not violate the Commandments or the faith of the Church. It may be asking me to do something dumb, but that does not invalidate the Church’s right to command and expect compliance.

My best example is when you tell someone to stand in the corner. You’re the commanding officer. There is no good reason to stand in the corner. However, there is no legal reason why the person should not stand in the corner and there is not legal reason why you can’t command the person to stand in the corner. You stand in the corner or end up under arrest.

We’re looking at Church law and authority through very simplistic eyes. The pope does not have to prove that he’s right. All he has to prove is that he’s not in conflict with moral law or divine revelation. From there, he can command and we must comply. For priests who have promised obedience, the duty to comply is double. That’s the problem that we have here. It boils down to an institute that believes that it is exempt from compliance, based on its understanding of law, not on the understanding of the Magisterium, who is the source of the law.

With these new developments, I see this is going to linger on and on. My advice to any layman, priest or religious who is attached to the SSPX is that it’s time to consider detachment and return to full communion with the Church. Find another place that will get as close as possible to meet your needs. Sometimes, we have to accept that not all of our needs will be met in this life, but only in the next.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
CONGRATULATIONS
TO ALL OF YOU


View attachment 15849

This is the first time in our history that we have had a thread on the SSPX reach the official closing mark of 1,000 posts. I’m so proud of the effort that everyone put into this thread and of the effort that everyone put into being objective and civil.

I am so grateful to all of you for making my life easier. I was doing a lot of observing of this thread. Sometimes I checked in on it three times a day or more. I had to box a few ears, but nothing major.

Our policy is to close at the 1,000th post. You may continue the subject by creating an SSPX Update - The Sequel. Like Star Wars. LOL

I would certainly appreciate your feedback. As moderator, I’m always growing and learning. Just drop me a PM. Label it “feedback”. 😃
 
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