SSPX: What's next?

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mick321

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Earlier this year, Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunications of four SSPX Bishops. After which, the Holy Father stated, “I hope that this gesture of mine will be followed by a prompt commitment on their part to take the further steps necessary to achieve full communion with the Church, thus showing true faithfulness to, and true recognition of, the Magisterium and authority of the Pope and of Vatican Council II.”

Like it or not, it appears that the Church and the Society are on the road to some form of “full communion”.

What are the most useful and appropriate steps that both SSPX and BXVI take if they wish to normalize their relationship?

How should progress be measured?

What will be the result of their efforts after five years?
 
I hope for full communion. They will bring back something great to the Church. Maybe Vatican II will be interpreted how it was originally supposed to be. I hope SSPX remembers the way the mass is said is a matter of discipline not doctrine.

May God Bless this effort.
 
mick321 said:
Earlier this year, Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunications of four SSPX Bishops. After which, the Holy Father stated, “I hope that this gesture of mine will be followed by a prompt commitment on their part to take the further steps necessary to achieve full communion with the Church, thus showing true faithfulness to, and true recognition of, the Magisterium and authority of the Pope and of Vatican Council II.”

Like it or not, it appears that the Church and the Society are on the road to some form of “full communion”.

What are the most useful and appropriate steps that both SSPX and BXVI take if they wish to normalize their relationship?

How should progress be measured?

What will be the result of their efforts after five years?
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SSPX needs to accept the teachings of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. If they do that, I can’t imagine anything would prevent reuniting.
 
diggerdomer said:
SSPX needs to accept the teachings of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. If they do that, I can’t imagine anything would prevent reuniting.
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Exactly.

But before they do that, the Catholic Church needs to clarify its teachings on a few issues.

FORTUNATELY, that is happening as we speak. The SSPX and Rome have entered into doctrinal discussions.

The results? After five years I hope that the SSPX will be recognized by all to be a part of the Church (the unfair stigma will hopefully be gone) but will remain its own group with its own bishops without any meddling by diocesan bishops.

It would be nice indeed to be able to continue growing without special permission from bishops who continue to have either apathy or hatred for the TLM.
 
The SSPX needs to realize which founding bishop of theirs was at Vatican II and signed the documents.

It is the Spirit of Vatican II which is completely wrong nowadays. Once this has been done, I think the SSPX would be *great *to have around. If they were normalized into dioceses then they could be such an enormous help in curbing the modernism, protestantism, and relativism which has seeped into some Catholic churches today. It would be great.
 
thunderballs75 said:
The SSPX needs to realize which founding bishop of theirs was at Vatican II and signed the documents.

It is the Spirit of Vatican II which is completely wrong nowadays. Once this has been done, I think the SSPX would be *great *to have around. If they were normalized into dioceses then they could be such an enormous help in curbing the modernism, protestantism, and relativism which has seeped into some Catholic churches today. It would be great.
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Exactly. But it’s not like they don’t know that about Lefebvre, too. That’s why they are very against the “spirit”, and not so much the council or its documents, and that’s why they’re willing to have doctrinal talks. Obviously the problem isn’t so much in the documents as it is in the (often un-traditional and un-Catholic) interpretations of those docs.
 
Woah hold up. That’s you Mark! Hahaha!

Boy, you would love to hear about the parish I went to this past weekend while I was at my cousins’ house in Moreno Valley.
 
It would be useful for the Church to clarify its teachings for the benefit of all the faithful, particularly those who remain within the diocesan format.

The Society - with its network of schools, seminaries, chapels and 500+ traditionally formed priests - seems to have transcended the diocesan organizational chart.

Under the circumstances, perhaps a form of personal prelature is appropriate. Imagine Opus Dei without the controversy.

Thoughts?
 
I do not know how close things are, especially with the pope reordering the Ecclesia Dei commission and placing it under the Congregation.

He also stated in that document that the SSPX have no place within the Church ministry.
 
mick321 said:
It would be useful for the Church to clarify its teachings for the benefit of all the faithful, particularly those who remain within the diocesan format.

The Society - with its network of schools, seminaries, chapels and 500+ traditionally formed priests - seems to have transcended the diocesan organizational chart.

Under the circumstances, perhaps a form of personal prelature is appropriate. Imagine Opus Dei without the controversy.
Thoughts?
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Mick:

I think you are being waaaaayyyyy too optimistic here. I expect that a very large contingent of liberal modernist pseudo Catholics in the U.S. are going to be rabidly opposed to the Church receiving the Society back into full communion. It could actually be that by receiving the Society back in full communion could instigate the schism that many of us have expected for a long time with the liberal modernists walking out and forming the U.S. Catholic Church as opposed to the Roman Catholic Church.
 
Marsha_Adams said:
Mick:

I think you are being waaaaayyyyy too optimistic here. I expect that a very large contingent of liberal modernist pseudo Catholics in the U.S. are going to be rabidly opposed to the Church receiving the Society back into full communion. It could actually be that by receiving the Society back in full communion could instigate the schism that many of us have expected for a long time with the liberal modernists walking out and forming the U.S. Catholic Church as opposed to the Roman Catholic Church.
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Just as there are a very large cnotingent of ultra-traditionalist pseudo Catholics who will not want the SSPX to reunite with the Church.

I also doubt that the personal prelature, like the one Opus Dei has, would work for the SSPX becuase for Opus Dei to work within a diocese they need the blessing of the local bishop (at least that is how I understand it to work for them).
 
Marsha_Adams said:
Mick:

I think you are being waaaaayyyyy too optimistic here. I expect that a very large contingent of liberal modernist pseudo Catholics in the U.S. are going to be rabidly opposed to the Church receiving the Society back into full communion. It could actually be that by receiving the Society back in full communion could instigate the schism that many of us have expected for a long time with the liberal modernists walking out and forming the U.S. Catholic Church as opposed to the Roman Catholic Church.
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I don’t think “liberal modernist pseudo Catholics in the US” give a hoot about the SSPX or even think about them at all.
 
Abenadar said:
The results? After five years I hope that the SSPX will be recognized by all to be a part of the Church (the unfair stigma will hopefully be gone) but will remain its own group with its own bishops without any meddling by diocesan bishops.
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Yes, it would be unfortunate for the successors to the apostles to have anything to say about what happens in their own dioceses.:eek:
 
Claire_from_DE said:
I don’t think “liberal modernist pseudo Catholics in the US” give a hoot about the SSPX or even think about them at all.
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Claire:

You are right, TODAY they don’t give a hoot. TOMORROW if the Society is embraced in full communion with the Church, I think the LMPCs will feel very threatened and start giving lots of hoots, maybe enough to start their own church. But then, I may just be overly optimistic.
 
Marsha_Adams said:
Claire:

You are right, TODAY they don’t give a hoot. TOMORROW if the Society is embraced in full communion with the Church, I think the LMPCs will feel very threatened and start giving lots of hoots, maybe enough to start their own church. But then, I may just be overly optimistic.
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They can hoot away. I live in Delaware so I don’t know what the rest of the country is doing but I see us veering away from liberalism. Maybe they will do what the extreme traditionalists do and just find parishes where they feel fairly comfortable and complain about the rest of the church.:rolleyes:

Seriously, I think the newer priests are better formed than the ones from the 70’s and 80’s and this will have a positive effect on the church. And I have seen some of the older priests change too.

I think the Society will have to make some adjustments in order to be fully embraced by the Church but, if they are able to do so, I think it would benefit the rest of us. I don’t think two churches with two opposing theologies can exist within the Catholic church. (The eastern and western Catholic churches have complementary but not opposing theologies IMHO) The SSPX, or many of it’s members’, rejection of the validity of the OF mass is a big problem.
 
Claire_from_DE said:
I think the Society will have to make some adjustments in order to be fully embraced by the Church but, if they are able to do so, I think it would benefit the rest of us. I don’t think two churches with two opposing theologies can exist within the Catholic church. (The eastern and western Catholic churches have complementary but not opposing theologies IMHO) The SSPX, or many of it’s members’, rejection of the validity of the OF mass is a big problem.
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I believe they accept fully the validity of the Mass of Paul VI. They even accepted priests which had been trained in the Novus Ordo rites. However, they are concerned over the many modernist abuses and protestantisms which tend to creep into it.
 
Claire_from_DE said:
They can hoot away. I live in Delaware so I don’t know what the rest of the country is doing but I see us veering away from liberalism. Maybe they will do what the extreme traditionalists do and just find parishes where they feel fairly comfortable and complain about the rest of the church.:rolleyes:

Seriously, I think the newer priests are better formed than the ones from the 70’s and 80’s and this will have a positive effect on the church. And I have seen some of the older priests change too.

I think the Society will have to make some adjustments in order to be fully embraced by the Church but, if they are able to do so, I think it would benefit the rest of us. I don’t think two churches with two opposing theologies can exist within the Catholic church. (The eastern and western Catholic churches have complementary but not opposing theologies IMHO) The SSPX, or many of it’s members’, rejection of the validity of the OF mass is a big problem.
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Claire:

I absolutely agree with you. The newer priests are better formed than they have been for a long time and even Bishop Weakland of Milwaukee (a huge LMPC) admitted that the day of the liberal movement had passed. But I also believe that the remaining liberals will only be dragged back to orthodoxy kicking and screaming. Maybe you’re right they will just find a church where they are comfortable and moan and groan about the rest of the Church in the same way we conservatives have done for the last 40 years.
 
Claire_from_DE said:
They can hoot away. I live in Delaware so I don’t know what the rest of the country is doing but I see us veering away from liberalism. Maybe they will do what the extreme traditionalists do and just find parishes where they feel fairly comfortable and complain about the rest of the church.:rolleyes:

Seriously, I think the newer priests are better formed than the ones from the 70’s and 80’s and this will have a positive effect on the church. And I have seen some of the older priests change too.

I think the Society will have to make some adjustments in order to be fully embraced by the Church but, if they are able to do so, I think it would benefit the rest of us. I don’t think two churches with two opposing theologies can exist within the Catholic church. (The eastern and western Catholic churches have complementary but not opposing theologies IMHO) The SSPX, or many of it’s members’, rejection of the validity of the OF mass is a big problem.
Click to expand...
Unintentional post.
 
thunderballs75 said:
I believe they accept fully the validity of the Mass of Paul VI. They even accepted priests which had been trained in the Novus Ordo rites. However, they are concerned over the many modernist abuses and protestantisms which tend to creep into it.
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This is hard to believe, especially when one actually looks at the SSPX website to see what they say.

They have a quote from their Archbishop which says…

The Novus Ordo Missae, even when said with piety and respect for the liturgical rules, …is impregnated with the spirit of Protestantism. It bears within it a poison harmful to the faith.

I will not link to the site but if you go to their website this is found in the answer to Question 5, Why should Catholics have nothing to do with the Novus Ordo Missae.

They do not accept the Ordinary Form, this is very evident when one actually reads what they say,
 
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