SSPX??

[heart4home]

I keep reading conflicting things throughout some of the threads here and on other links online.

I’ve read that the excommunication was lifted, and yet then read in other places that even though it was lifted they still do not follow the Holy Father.

Are they or are they not, in FULL communion with Rome?

TIA!

 

[MiserereMeiDeus]

The excommunications were lifted, and talks are currently underway between the SSPX and Rome. However as of now, no, they are not in full communion with Rome.

Pray that the talks will bear fruit.

 

[heart4home]

The excommunications were lifted, and talks are currently underway between the SSPX and Rome. However as of now, no, they are not in full communion with Rome.

Pray that the talks will bear fruit.

Thank you. Could you tell me though, does that mean if we visited one and took the Eucharist, we’d be OK; meaning not sinning in the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[ProVobis]

Thank you. Could you tell me though, does that mean if we visited one and took the Eucharist, we’d be OK; meaning not sinning in the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church?

It would be valid and would fulfill your Sunday obligation but at the moment it is not recommended nor endorsed by the Church.

 

[GWright]

Hi there,

I had hoped the talks with SSPX would go well, as part of the momentum for Christian unity.
However, a recent (feburary) article in the Catholic Herald (UK) suggests they have been largely fruitless (see link):

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/02/22/vatican-talks-are-almost-over-says-head-of-sspx/

The head of SSPX (Bishop Bernard Fellay) identifies the beatification of JP2 and the new interfaith gathering at Assisi (which Pope Benedict is to attend) as stumbling blocks for SSPX.

I might be wrong, but I do not think it would be wrong to for a Catholic to take communion at an SSPX mass. Catholic clergy will happily give communion to anyone who shares the shame beliefs as us (transubstantiation) and who asks for communion of their own free will. I expect they are comfortable with the reverse also.

(On the same subject - Note that although Orthodox christians can receive communion in a Catholic Church, as per the above, I understand Catholics cannot get communion in an Orthodox Church).

 

[ProVobis]

Hi there,

I had hoped the talks with SSPX would go well, as part of the momentum for Christian unity.
However, a recent (feburary) article in the Catholic Herald (UK) suggests they have been largely fruitless (see link):

The talks might have been “fruitless” to people who thought the talks were all about the overturning of Vatican II. That’s not going to happen. However, the priests may still be offered some canonical status within the Church.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I by no means am a expert on the subject. that said It is my understanding ( highlight my understanding and as so can be wrong and I am open to being corrected) that if you go to mass at a SSPX chaple out of love for that form of the Mass, and it is the only place that that form is availible in your area, and you are not going in the spirit of schism and rejection of the authority of Rome, or saying that the OF and VII are ot valid then you may attend and receive there.
But it is not recommended at this time as it can give the impression of schism and lead others into schism.

 

[Timothysis]

Thank you. Could you tell me though, does that mean if we visited one and took the Eucharist, we’d be OK; meaning not sinning in the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church?

Receiving communion at a sspx chapel would imply a oneness of faith that does not exist. You may go, but I have read that you really should not receive. I suppose that, in the end, it is up to you.

 

[corsair]

You are correct, oneGODoneCHURCH. I ocassionaly attend a chapel when I’m visiting friends in Portland, OR. I did find an EF Mass near Portland but it is very early in the morning. It used to be one of the Indult Masses but is now served by a wonderful priest who is very enthusiastic about the EF.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

It’s okay to attend and receive there. The Church permits it.

Also, as stated by one of the cardinals (Hoyos?), the SSPX isn’t in schism.

 

[Timothysis]

It’s okay to attend and receive there. The Church permits it.

This is not 100% true. The Church will allow, under certain circumstances, attendance at sspx chapels, but the reception of the Eucharist is not encouraged. Of course, there is no “official” statement of such except for personal positions held by churchmen.

I still maintain that the reception of the Eucharist at sspx chapels implies a oneness of faith that does not exist and should, therefore, be discouraged.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

This is not 100% true. The Church will allow, under certain circumstances, attendance at sspx chapels, but the reception of the Eucharist is not encouraged. Of course, there is no “official” statement of such except for personal positions held by churchmen.

I still maintain that the reception of the Eucharist at sspx chapels implies a oneness of faith that does not exist and should, therefore, be discouraged.

Try writing to Rome.

 

[Timothysis]

Try writing to Rome.

I don’t understand the cuteness of your reply. The things that you have mentioned have not been decreed by Rome to the Latin Church; there were responses to individuals in particular situations.

No official declaration has been made about attending Mass at a sspx chapel. Keep in mind, however, that even Pope Benedict himself has stated that the sspx have no active ministry in the Church. That in itself seems to muddy the waters that you think are so clear.

 

[At_Trent]

I by no means am a expert on the subject. that said It is my understanding ( highlight my understanding and as so can be wrong and I am open to being corrected) that if you go to mass at a SSPX chaple out of love for that form of the Mass, and it is the only place that that form is availible in your area, and you are not going in the spirit of schism and rejection of the authority of Rome, or saying that the OF and VII are ot valid then you may attend and receive there.
But it is not recommended at this time as it can give the impression of schism and lead others into schism.

^ best answer

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

I don’t understand the cuteness of your reply. The things that you have mentioned have not been decreed by Rome to the Latin Church; there were responses to individuals in particular situations.

No official declaration has been made about attending Mass at a sspx chapel. Keep in mind, however, that even Pope Benedict himself has stated that the sspx have no active ministry in the Church. That in itself seems to muddy the waters that you think are so clear.

There’s nothing cute about it, or hard to understand. Write to Rome and they will tell you that you can attend the SSPX.

 

[Timothysis]

There’s nothing cute about it, or hard to understand. Write to Rome and they will tell you that you can attend the SSPX.

Oh, ok.

I’m afraid that you are taking far too much for granted. The issue is not as simple as you make it out to be. oneGODoneCHURCH’s answer seems to address the key principles;

"It is my understanding that if you go to mass at a SSPX chaple out of love for that form of the Mass, and it is the only place that that form is availible in your area, and you are not going in the spirit of schism and rejection of the authority of Rome, or saying that the OF and VII are ot valid then you may attend and receive there. "

That’s a far cry from "Yeah, Rome said so."

 

[heart4home]

Thank you all for replying. I appreciate it. We will be visiting friends that attend a SSPX and I wasn’t sure what to do.

Of course, I’m not sure, that I’m any more surer now.

 

[laszlo]

I keep reading conflicting things throughout some of the threads here and on other links online.

I’ve read that the excommunication was lifted, and yet then read in other places that even though it was lifted they still do not follow the Holy Father.

Are they or are they not, in FULL communion with Rome?

TIA!

Only the 4 bishops and late Archbishop Lefevbre (who is now in jurisdiction of God, outside of the Church militant) was excommunicated. They asked to lift the excommunication, and the Church like good mother went along.

All SSPX priests and bishops are suspended for exercising priestly functions, or being ordained or the bishops ordaining without jurisdiction. A few (Transalpine Redemptorist) asked for the canonical status and they received.

ONly ferendae sententiae censures can be lifted by the will of the legislator, for latae sentiae the one who acted against the law should ask for mercy, or the law should be changed. This later is not impossible by highly improbable.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

Oh, ok.

I’m afraid that you are taking far too much for granted. The issue is not as simple as you make it out to be. oneGODoneCHURCH’s answer seems to address the key principles;

"It is my understanding that if you go to mass at a SSPX chaple out of love for that form of the Mass, and it is the only place that that form is availible in your area, and you are not going in the spirit of schism and rejection of the authority of Rome, or saying that the OF and VII are ot valid then you may attend and receive there. "

That’s a far cry from "Yeah, Rome said so."

Well, from the personal intention standpoint, I don’t believe that anyone ever has the intention of going to a Mass to be schismatic and rebellious. Why? Because if a person doesn’t believe in the validity of the Pope or the authority of Rome, then how can they believe they are being schismatic? So while in our eyes and the church’s eyes they would be, they wouldn’t be in their own. In those cases, sure, it would be best not to do something that would lead away from the True Faith, but I sincerely doubt you’ll find any of those people posting here asking for direction on CAF.

As for the society as a whole, they are not schismatic, as I mentioned before. That individuals within the SSPX may be (whether some of the priests or those who attend) does not make a difference in that. There are individuals within the structure of Vatican II who are schismatic, too, but that, too, doesn’t speak for the whole. In my own situation, I’ll attend the SSPX (which I have done once) if it’s around and I need to get to Mass (I go to the TLM if I can), but I am careful about the people because I know that, as with any place, they are very mixed. Some people I would call crazy with their ideas and then there are many faithful Catholics, too.

 

[Timothysis]

Well, from the personal intention standpoint, I don’t believe that anyone ever has the intention of going to a Mass to be schismatic and rebellious. Why? Because if a person doesn’t believe in the validity of the Pope or the authority of Rome, then how can they believe they are being schismatic? So while in our eyes and the church’s eyes they would be, they wouldn’t be in their own. In those cases, sure, it would be best not to do something that would lead away from the True Faith, but I sincerely doubt you’ll find any of those people posting here asking for direction on CAF.

As for the society as a whole, they are not schismatic, as I mentioned before. That individuals within the SSPX may be (whether some of the priests or those who attend) does not make a difference in that. There are individuals within the structure of Vatican II who are schismatic, too, but that, too, doesn’t speak for the whole. In my own situation, I’ll attend the SSPX (which I have done once) if it’s around and I need to get to Mass (I go to the TLM if I can), but I am careful about the people because I know that, as with any place, they are very mixed. Some people I would call crazy with their ideas and then there are many faithful Catholics, too.

You certainly used a lot of words to say nothing.

oneGODoneCHURCH’s answer echoed what has been said by prelates of the Church.