SSPX

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JReducation said:
The question in my mind is why they haven’t asked for admission to the SSPX. That’s interesting. Does anyone know of such a priest?
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There are probably upwards of fifty or so priests in this situation in the U.S. Their situation is that they have left their diocese or religious order mostly due to a dispute with their superiors about offering the EF - all prior to S.P. They now offer the EF independently in chapels and oratories. Some are on “leave” from their diocese, in other words, not technically kicked out. Some were told there is no place for them in their original incardinating organization, whatever that may be. There was a book published a few years ago called “Priest Where is Thy Mass” that chronicled about a dozen of these priests at the time. They minister to a group of faithful in a certain location and are not interested in the “missionary” aspect of the SSPX where a priest is moved to a new location every 5 years or so. Up until now, the SSPX cooperates with these priests under certain circumstances and will offer to include their candidates for Confirmation every few years.

They are listed as affiliates of the SSPX. As I said before, I am sure that Bishop Fellay has found an agreeable way to accommodate these chapels in the canonical arrangements where these priests would somehow be incardinated as other SSPX priests without becoming part of the SSPX. As I said before, it is all new territory so I have no idea how it would work. But I imagine that Bishop Fellay will have to the ability to erect an order in the same way a diocesan Bishop now does.

Once again, this is all speculative and without precedent, so It is anyone’s guess how the Pope will handle this. But this is a church matter and I imagine that the Pope, as supreme head of the church, can devise any construct he wishes that has heretofore never been done.
 
Cecil_Corn said:
Getting back on topic, what does everyone think will happen tomorrow? I’m hoping for full regularization, but I don’t think we will know until sometime next month.
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Nothing. The thirty days was a speculation that apparently was mistranslated , misunderstood misstated. . There is no firm timetable for the answer to be given…
 
giuseppeTO said:
There are probably upwards of fifty or so priests in this situation in the U.S. Their situation is that they have left their diocese or religious order mostly due to a dispute with their superiors about offering the EF - all prior to S.P.
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Even after S.P. a regular priest is still under his superior and not as free to celebrate the EF as a secular priest.

Those who are "on leave’ from their religious institute are in the process of leaving that life as this is the first step to it.

As for diocesen priests. When they are “on leave” they usually have their faculties suspended.
 
Mike30 said:
Nothing. The thirty days was a speculation that apparently was mistranslated , misunderstood misstated. . There is no firm timetable for the answer to be given…
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The Society has responded. Rome will comment on the response this week.
 
I’ve seen too much pride on the part of the SSPX and their followers to think they’d be coming home any time soon. I believe the EO’s will come home sooner than the SSPX.

If through a miracle, there is any reconciliation with SSPX, I guarantee the SSPV’s numbers will grow.

Of course, I hope I am wrong.

But I never bet against pride.
 
All week while praying the Divine Mercy Novena, the SSPX has been on my mind. I dont know if it was because of the praying for those who have separated themselves or just the concept of Divine Mercy in this message but what a powerful witness to the Divine Mercy message it would be. It has been some time since I have even cared about this but I think it is do or die time for this situation.
 
BobCatholic said:
I’ve seen too much pride on the part of the SSPX and their followers to think they’d be coming home any time soon. I believe the EO’s will come home sooner than the SSPX.

If through a miracle, there is any reconciliation with SSPX, I guarantee the SSPV’s numbers will grow.

Of course, I hope I am wrong.

But I never bet against pride.
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Pride, aside from being a serious sin, is also the root of all other sin. Those attached to the SSPX who are guilty of this sin must certainly atone for it.

However, I don’t see a mass movement of disaffected SSPX laity going over to the SSPV. If they are sedevacantist, they would already be there or with the multiple other sedevacantist bishops. I can’t imagine how the fact that the SSPX and the Vatican agree on a regularization would cause someone to suddenly think the seat of Peter was vacant? It doesn’t make sense. If someone held that opinion and was assisting at an SSPX chapel and a regularization caused them to finally go over to the SSPV, well then that is as it should be since they do not belong in an organization that believe that Pope Benedict is a true Pope, as have been all of the Popes since Pope Pius XII.

I don’t disagree that a percentage of faithful who regularly assist at SSPX chapels would be disaffected and stop assisting at those chapels. There will still be, I believe, independent priests who are not incardinated and have no bishop and will not want to have an affiliation with the SSPX after a regularization. These priests may draw in some of the disaffected faithful. But how will they procure Confirmation or the Holy Chrism?

Likewise, I predict that the number of disaffected people who leave the SSPX because of a regularization will be significantly outnumbered by the faithful who will seek out a regularized SSPX, especially in diocese where the EF is suppressed and where there is no Catholic School which offers the Sacraments in the EF.

By the same token, I believe the applications to the SSPX seminaries will swell after a regularization and will replace the priests who leave.
 
giuseppeTO said:
However, I don’t see a mass movement of disaffected SSPX laity going over to the SSPV. If they are sedevacantist, they would already be there or with the multiple other sedevacantist bishops.
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I think you are correct. However, depending on the nature of the agreement, I would not be surprised to see a subsequent splintering of those who do not wish to return. I am concerned about Bishop Williamson in particular. I think when we pray for the SSPX, we need also to pray for a receptive heart in each of the priests that will have to face this transition.
 
pnewton said:
I think you are correct. However, depending on the nature of the agreement, I would not be surprised to see a subsequent splintering of those who do not wish to return. I am concerned about Bishop Williamson in particular. I think when we pray for the SSPX, we need also to pray for a receptive heart in each of the priests that will have to face this transition.
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This is probably one of the most delicate issues concerning the canonical process. As inevitable as it may be that some SSPX laity and clergy eventually decide to leave and be independent, it is possible that this may also happen with a Bishop. Part of deal could also theoretically be retirement for a Bishop and the consecration of additional Bishops. Again, just speculation. Any of the Bishops could leave and choose to be independent of the agreement. That would be encouraging for laity and priests of the same mind. I see it as sort of a dead end, given the ages of the Bishops. I particularly don’t think any of the bishops are interested in becomming a modern day Archbishop Thuc.

You are spot-on on the need for prayers, Newt.
 
giuseppeTO said:
This is probably one of the most delicate issues concerning the canonical process. As inevitable as it may be that some SSPX laity and clergy eventually decide to leave and be independent, it is possible that this may also happen with a Bishop. Part of deal could also theoretically be retirement for a Bishop and the consecration of additional Bishops. Again, just speculation. Any of the Bishops could leave and choose to be independent of the agreement. That would be encouraging for laity and priests of the same mind. I see it as sort of a dead end, given the ages of the Bishops. I particularly don’t think any of the bishops are interested in becomming a modern day Archbishop Thuc.

You are spot-on on the need for prayers, Newt.
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I am actually more worried about the actions of the laity than I am the bishops and priests. From what little exposure I have had, it often seems that the laity are more vociferous in their critique of Rome, the OF of the Mass, etc. than the clergy are. That is not to say that it is 100%, but I have definitely noticed the trend.

The reason it concerns me is that if some laity who are not inclined to come home to Rome manage to sway some of the clergy that are on the fence it could be the end of the road for them while the laity would always have the option of contrition and return to Holy Mother Church. In essence what I am saying is that there is the potential that the clergy could have more to lose here if not everyone likes the agreement.

Peace,
 
jwinch2 said:
… if some laity who are not inclined to come home to Rome manage to sway some of the clergy that are on the fence it could be the end of the road for them while the laity would always have the option of contrition and return to Holy Mother Church
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I don’t know Jason. Having been associated with the Society for several years, I rarely have seen the clergy swayed by the faithful. It is more the opposite case where the clergy is treated in a more deferential way and are very firm in their convictions. I would be surprised to see the mind of a priest changed by one or a group of his chapel. My experience is that, like in any parish, there is both ends of the spectrum concerning these issues. However, priests are generally in lock step with their superiors.

That is not to say that there are no exceptions … but I believe they are just that - exceptions more than the rule.
 
jwinch2 said:
I am actually more worried about the actions of the laity than I am the bishops and priests. From what little exposure I have had, it often seems that the laity are more vociferous in their critique of Rome, the OF of the Mass, etc. than the clergy are. That is not to say that it is 100%, but I have definitely noticed the trend.

The reason it concerns me is that if some laity who are not inclined to come home to Rome manage to sway some of the clergy that are on the fence it could be the end of the road for them while the laity would always have the option of contrition and return to Holy Mother Church. In essence what I am saying is that there is the potential that the clergy could have more to lose here if not everyone likes the agreement.

Peace,
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How many SSPX chapels have you attended mass at? The laity that attend mass there are overwhelmingly Catholic. There is nothing for them to do to “come home”. If you actually think that the laity have power to sway over the priests of SSPX then you clearly haven’t spent much if any time with them.
 
Cider said:
Oh that would be incredible, if what the article claims is true.
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Actually, even though it came out today, the article is outdated since it refers to the response still anticipated from Bishop Fellay, when in fact it was received last Wednesday.
 
giuseppeTO said:
I don’t know Jason. Having been associated with the Society for several years, I rarely have seen the clergy swayed by the faithful. **It is more the opposite case where the clergy is treated in a more deferential way and are very firm in their convictions. ** I would be surprised to see the mind of a priest changed by one or a group of his chapel.
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Exactly.
 
giuseppeTO said:
Actually, even though it came out today, the article is outdated since it refers to the response still anticipated from Bishop Fellay, when in fact it was received last Wednesday.
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I thought that was odd too, when I read it. Still, I would be thrilled if the got a personal prelature.
 
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