SSPX?

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gorman64 said:
Actually, Bear, you’ve gotten it backwards… I am a sedevacantist because the bishops and “pope” are heretics. And no, your position is far from outrageous and it would be the correct one…too bad there’s no authority to legislate. 😉

Look at the conciliar church’s own position on the SSPX…it nothing but confusing…and I suspect that’s on purpose. 🙂

Do you really think that these bishops are unaware of the heresy being taught in their catechism classes, and that some kind of crass and criminal ignorance excuses them? The “pass” you’re giving them is truly outrageous.

Gorman
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I can see you’re on a tangent today. Have fun with that. Of course you know I’ll disagree.👍
 
Jedinovice said:
Let me reassure. First, beware Catholic discussion forums. They are invariably congregation points for pretty extremist ‘Rad-Trads.’
Stick around in almost ANY Catholic discussion forum and you’ll end up with a guilt trip because you don’t love Latin, you don’t where a brown scapular, don’t pray the rosary in Latin, think non-Catholics might make it to heaven and haven’t memorised the complete text of Vertitas Pravda by Pope Pius MXXXXXVIII of Blessed memory and why the Hell can’t B16 make him a saint since he was a real Pope dammit?!Do NOT get your theology from discussion forums. Really!
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jmj603 said:
Doesn’t Confirmation by a priest require jurisdiction?
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Our pastor requests faculties from the Bishop, receives them, and then does confirmations. Even tho he’s done them for the past 3 or 4 years he must submit a formal request each year. I mean it’s not our of pure convenience, but we have 81 parishes in our diocese. Our Bishop is run ragged during the season.

David
 
Please stay on topic. If anyone wishes to discuss side issues brought up in this thread, please don’t hijack it, but start new threads in the appropriate fora. Thank you.
 
Back to the OP’s post, I think the best thing I can think to say is that every religion has it’s “creepy” people. Each religion has people that fall in at every place in the spectrum, from way traditional to the people who practice very losely. There are some SSPXers who are very rude and obnoxiuos, just like Jehovas witnesses, protestants, and catholics who believe that the church should get with the times and allow divorce, contraception and premarital sex. As far as your parish being wrong, it is possible. I know that at my church there are things going on that are wrong. The patents should be there, but they aren’t, people aren’t supopsed to hold hands during the OUr Father, but they do, and women show up wearing immodest clothing and they shouldn’t. Most traditionalists simply have a love for the latin mass. It brings them closer to God. It’s kind of like a painter who finds God in a field of flowers while a composer finds Him in a beautiful voice or piece of music. I’m not saying that Rock and roll can be played at mass just because someone claims to hear God in it, but there are very beautiful english songs as well as latin songs that lift thei heart and mind to God. So, my advice, read the Catechism, pray and meditate on what brings people closer to God, and pray that you can get closer to Him. Don’t worry about feeling that you aren’t a good enough catholic, because honestly, most of us aren’t and if we think we are we are either prideful or kidding ourselves; we can all always make impovements when it comes to living our faith.
 
migurl said:
Back to the OP’s post, I think the best thing I can think to say is that every religion has it’s “creepy” people. Each religion has people that fall in at every place in the spectrum, from way traditional to the people who practice very losely. There are some SSPXers who are very rude and obnoxiuos, just like Jehovas witnesses, protestants, and catholics who believe that the church should get with the times and allow divorce, contraception and premarital sex. As far as your parish being wrong, it is possible. I know that at my church there are things going on that are wrong. The patents should be there, but they aren’t, people aren’t supopsed to hold hands during the OUr Father, but they do, and women show up wearing immodest clothing and they shouldn’t. Most traditionalists simply have a love for the latin mass. It brings them closer to God. It’s kind of like a painter who finds God in a field of flowers while a composer finds Him in a beautiful voice or piece of music. I’m not saying that Rock and roll can be played at mass just because someone claims to hear God in it, but there are very beautiful english songs as well as latin songs that lift thei heart and mind to God. So, my advice, read the Catechism, pray and meditate on what brings people closer to God, and pray that you can get closer to Him. Don’t worry about feeling that you aren’t a good enough catholic, because honestly, most of us aren’t and if we think we are we are either prideful or kidding ourselves; we can all always make impovements when it comes to living our faith.
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Very well said Migurl. Although I don’t know where it says we can’t hold hands and that patents have to be there. 🤷 :confused:

The OP post is a perfect example of how confusing these types of extreme divisions in the Church can make people.
 
I am so glad we are finally able to discuss this topic on the CA forums. For a while, this was a banned topic. I had many of these same questions when I first encountered people from the local SSPX chapel. They scared me. They were always trying to get me to read some really (in my opinion) hateful newspapers and literature, they were constantly knocking the Pope (JPII at the time) and they always seemed so angry to me. I didn’t know how to handle them and I was worried too. I wondered, are they right, and I’ve been misled? I couldn’t have conversations with them because they just hammered me whenever I quoted the Pope, the Catechism, or anything written after Vatican II. So I completely understand what the OP is going through.
Eventually, I realized that they really just wanted to do what they thought was right. They were passionate about their faith. Sometimes they were a little over the top, but what I saw as anger was probably just weariness over fighting for so long. I think about them whenever I feel weary in fighting for pro-life causes or defending the faith against terribly anti-catholic persons. I check myself, and think, do I want these other people to view me as an angry or self-righteous religious fanatic like I sometimes thought about those radical traditionalists? Becoming angry is not a good way to converse with those with differing opinions, even though we all fall into that sometimes. So, in the end, I did learn a lesson from the SSPX, even though it’s not exactly the message they wanted me to get.
 
I think that what’s causing the extreme divisions in the Church are people passing judgments and rendering their opinions on matters they really know nothing about. Stating that one has gotten “creepy feelings” about people at SSPX chapels does nothing but create unjust predispositions in others. When one goes into a situation expecting “creepiness,” more than likely they will find it - and more than likely it will be imagined.

From my own experience, I have seen only good, traditional Catholics at the SSPX who have been nothing short of honest, kind and charitable. Even those who, at first glance, may be considered “odd” have, upon getting to know them, turned out to be some of the nicest. Remember, looks are deceiving, and it is very uncharitable to pass blanket judgments on groups of people from single, unfavorable experiences.
 
anamchara said:
Very well said Migurl. Although I don’t know where it says we can’t hold hands and that patents have to be there. 🤷 :confused:
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Oh, well, the hand holding thing was a protestand practice and the patents are the little things that the altar servers are supposed to hold under the host at communion so that in case the host is dropped or crumbs fall, they do not land on the ground. The crumbs or pieces are then dusted off into the wine goblet and then the priest or deacon drinks it.
 
The main thing that “creeps out” most people, in regards to “SSPXers” is that they, along with all other “ultra-traditionalists” (or whatever you want to call them) deny the validity of the “Enlightenment”, and live in societies that have been thoroughly CREATED by the “Enlightenment”.

They are “creepy” in the sense that the Amish are “creepy”, except you never really meet and talk with the Amish, and if you do, it’s not going to be about the shared Profession of the Catholic Faith (because they’re not Catholic).

They are “fanatics” because to reject the “Enlightenment” is to reject everything about our modern society and culture. Such things as tolerance, freedom or religion, “democratic” governments, etc. Most people WOULD find that “creepy” because it goes against EVERYTHING they’ve been taught.
 
laudamus te

You said-“Stating that one has gotten “creepy feelings” about people at SSPX chapels does nothing but create unjust predispositions in others. When one goes into a situation expecting “creepiness,” more than likely they will find it - and more than likely it will be imagined.”

I did NOT go into a situation expecting creepiness.

I met these people through a secular children’s choir that I was working with. I got to know them over the course of a season (nine months) of choir.

I was only trying to be honest about my feelings in my opening post. I wasn’t trying to create unjust predispositions in others. I wanted to make it clear how I feel when I am around these families. I tried very hard in my opening post to make it clear that these were just my personal feelings.

I even said, “Again, sorry if this offends truly good Catholics, but I’m trying to make my own personal feelings very clear.”

And I also said that my feelings might be residuals from the horrific experience in my Protestant church.

When I opened this thread, I knew NOTHING about the SSPX, the Traditionalists, and all the other “initials” that I have heard on this Board and seen a little of in my own city. Now I know a little more, and I’m grateful to all who posted.

Please don’t make me out to be some kind of anti-Traditionalist. I am a Catholic who is in total submission to Christ and His Vicar on earth, the Bishop of Rome, and the Bishops under him.
 
migurl said:
Oh, well, the hand holding thing was a protestand practice and the patents are the little things that the altar servers are supposed to hold under the host at communion so that in case the host is dropped or crumbs fall, they do not land on the ground. The crumbs or pieces are then dusted off into the wine goblet and then the priest or deacon drinks it.
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Actually, I know what patents are. I incorporated them by asking our priest if we could buy some new ones since he couldn’t find the old ones. I train altar servers at my parish and thought it would be nice to bring back this tradition, maybe encourage more reverence, I think it has. But they are not mandatory as far as I know.

It’s all about balance, showing respect,reverence during the Mass.

edit, almost forgot. We never held hands as Protestants, I started doing this when I became Catholic 😉 interesting.
 
laudamus_te said:
I think that what’s causing the extreme divisions in the Church are people passing judgments and rendering their opinions on matters they really know nothing about. Stating that one has gotten “creepy feelings” about people at SSPX chapels does nothing but create unjust predispositions in others. When one goes into a situation expecting “creepiness,” more than likely they will find it - and more than likely it will be imagined.

From my own experience, I have seen only good, traditional Catholics at the SSPX who have been nothing short of honest, kind and charitable.
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Maybe you have had good experiences because you are in line with their thinking? Or close enough? My experience at least on here and other message boards hasn’t been the same as yours. They are great if you agree with them, but anything outside their own mindset and watch out :eek: I found a few to be obnoxiously rude. How is calling people “heretics” charitable? Or how is calling a Protestant communion experience nothing more than crackers and grape juice charitable? It’s interesting because I just read a post in this traditional forum where someone thought it was so cool when they went to an SSPX Mass and the priest used the word “heretic” in his homily a few times…what the?? :confused: All I’ve learned is that having an angry demeanor is what they think God wants. :rolleyes:

I’ve been accused of way to many things by these so called “Catholics” to have a great deal of good to say, sorry! Something I’ve had to learn to pray about :gopray2:
 
anamchara said:
How is calling people “heretics” charitable? Or how is calling a Protestant communion experience nothing more than crackers and grape juice charitable?
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It’s charitable in the sense that telling a Buddhist they aren’t Christian is charitable.

The truth hurts, but people try to avoid pain. So, instead of avoiding the pain by proclaiming the Truth, they avoid pain by compromising the Truth.

Calling Protestants “heretics” isn’t like calling them a “dirty word”, it’s simply relaying the Truth of their theology. The Truth is only offensive (painful) if you compromise the Truth, and accept, well, heresy.
 
This thread is going off topic. Please stick to the original topic or I will have to close the thread. Thank you.
 
Catholic_Hammer said:
The main thing that “creeps out” most people, in regards to “SSPXers” is that they, along with all other “ultra-traditionalists” (or whatever you want to call them) deny the validity of the “Enlightenment”, and live in societies that have been thoroughly CREATED by the “Enlightenment”.

They are “creepy” in the sense that the Amish are “creepy”, except you never really meet and talk with the Amish, and if you do, it’s not going to be about the shared Profession of the Catholic Faith (because they’re not Catholic).

They are “fanatics” because to reject the “Enlightenment” is to reject everything about our modern society and culture. Such things as tolerance, freedom or religion, “democratic” governments, etc. Most people WOULD find that “creepy” because it goes against EVERYTHING they’ve been taught.
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I must disagree with you (and I am not from the SSPX). The “enlightenment” is one step in the degradation of our society, which is rooted in Roman/Greek culture, but greatly refined and depaganized by Christianity.

The enlightenment produced freemasonry, naturalism, materialism, scientism, modernism, and many other ills. The fact that we still progressed is not necassarily a testament to the enlightenment, but rather a testamnet to the lasting influence of Christianity even in our currently paganizing society (i.e., the paganization is ongoing, but has not completely taken over yet, at least not in the US).

Don’t think that just because we live in the US now, and like it, that our form of Democratic institutions, religuous freedom, seperation of religion and government, etc. meets God’s approval. Some of what we do is clearly just, but obviously some if it is not (secularization, abortion, etc.).

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
 
Catholic_Hammer said:
It’s charitable in the sense that telling a Buddhist they aren’t Christian is charitable.

The truth hurts, but people try to avoid pain. So, instead of avoiding the pain by proclaiming the Truth, they avoid pain by compromising the Truth.

Calling Protestants “heretics” isn’t like calling them a “dirty word”, it’s simply relaying the Truth of their theology. The Truth is only offensive (painful) if you compromise the Truth, and accept, well, heresy.
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🙂 I’ve heard this one before… “Ohh sorry the truth hurts, we are only trying to tell the truth”:rolleyes: the problem is the only thing some people want to use is one act of mercy “admonish the sinner” What about all the other acts of Mercy? What about “teaching wrongs patiently” What about what the catechism teaches us on how we are suppose to treat our “separate brethren” ? Calling Protestants heretics is a dirty word and saying is not is ridiculous. There’s a reason we avoid the word. Let’s remember there are “Corporal works of mercy” and “spiritual works of mercy” and there’s also that whole catechism 😉

The real truth is there’s never a reason to be rude and hiding behind the Church is well…just cowardice.
 
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