St. Augustine on Death and the Fall

[bitznbitez]

I have been reading St. Augustine city of God lately. One of the things I notice in his writing is his apparent belief that animals were created mortal, they didn’t obtain mortality via the fall. Also his understanding that human immortality was not a direct function of the bodies of the first parents however it was a function of their partaking of the Tree of Life. Thus the consequence of sin that brought the certainty of bodily death was the loss of the ability to eat of the tree of life.

1. Is that essentially what St. Augustine is saying in City of God, ie. am I understanding him correctly.
2. Was this the view of other patristic authors ? Was it a matter of difference of opinion among patristic authors ? Any suggestions on who else to read patristically on this ?

NOTE: This thread is not about origins and/or evolution those are banned topics and should not be discussed here.

 

[Neofight]

I have been reading St. Augustine city of God lately. One of the things I notice in his writing is his apparent belief that animals were created mortal, they didn’t obtain mortality via the fall. Also his understanding that human immortality was not a direct function of the bodies of the first parents however it was a function of their partaking of the Tree of Life. Thus the consequence of sin that brought the certainty of bodily death was the loss of the ability to eat of the tree of life.

1. Is that essentially what St. Augustine is saying in City of God, ie. am I understanding him correctly.
2. Was this the view of other patristic authors ? Was it a matter of difference of opinion among patristic authors ? Any suggestions on who else to read patristically on this ?

NOTE: This thread is not about origins and/or evolution those are banned topics and should not be discussed here.

I haven’t read City of God yet, but I have read his writings on Genesis, and particularly the fall. From those writings I did not gather your comments on the Tree of Life, but he may not have addressed them in what I have read.

He did claim animals to be created as mortal. But in the reading I did, he claimed that the loss of immortality (or the onset of physical death) was the punishment for the fall, rather than the toil of labor in the field for man, or the pain of childbirth for women, which he implied were symptoms of the punishment.

Peace.

 

[grannymh]

I have been reading St. Augustine city of God lately. One of the things I notice in his writing is his apparent belief that animals were created mortal, they didn’t obtain mortality via the fall. Also his understanding that human immortality was not a direct function of the bodies of the first parents however it was a function of their partaking of the Tree of Life. Thus the consequence of sin that brought the certainty of bodily death was the loss of the ability to eat of the tree of life.

1. Is that essentially what St. Augustine is saying in City of God, ie. am I understanding him correctly.
2. Was this the view of other patristic authors ? Was it a matter of difference of opinion among patristic authors ? Any suggestions on who else to read patristically on this ?

NOTE: This thread is not about origins and/or evolution those are banned topics and should not be discussed here.

I have not read St. Augustine.

From the quotes on CAF, I believe he had a lot of common sense. If animals were not mortal, that is subject to decay and death, we would now have traffic jams of dinosaurs.

I would agree with – “Thus the consequence of sin that brought the certainty of bodily death was the loss of the ability to eat of the tree of life.” It is one of those things which possibly could be both reality and figuratively at the same time. The point is that bodily immortality was not originally part of true human nature. And bodily immortality depended on the actions chosen by Adam. The consequence of Adam’s Original Sin is the shattering of the original friendship relationship between humanity and Divinity.

From the beginning, Adam’s nature is the unique unification of both the material world and the spiritual world. This means that he is created in the image of God, spritual soul, and has a decomposing anatomy like the rest of the material creatures on earth. The key to understanding the first three chapters of Genesis is that Adam is created in the State of Original Holiness, aka State of Sanctifying Grace, in which he shares in the life of his Creator. This is the original “friendship” relationship between humanity and Divinity.

In addition to Adam’s basic human nature, he received the preternatual gift, an extraordinary gift, which was the gift of bodily immortality. Scott Hahn’s* Catholic Bible Dictionary* says of the Tree of Life, Genesis 2:9, that it “bestowed immortality upon those who ate of its fruit.” Grenesis 3: 22. The Tree of Life also appears in other Scripture passages. The point is that bodily immortality was not natural to Adam.

Being a gift, along with Adam’s direct spiritual relationship with God, bodily immortality depends on Adam’s obedience as a creature to his Creator. *CCC *396. When Adam scorned God by prefering himself over and against God, thus against the requirements of his creaturely status, this all added up to a free action against his own good, aka Original Sin. CCC 396-409.

Regarding other patristic authors, my suggestion is to check the footnotes in the major section, CCC 355-421.

Be sure to first read CCC 20-21 which explains the importance of small print.

Another way to find patristic authors is to use the “Index of Citations” which starts on page 689. St. Augustine starts on page 742.

 

[thinkandmull]

Animals **aren’t **simple, right? I mean, Catholics have traditionally argued for immorality by saying something simple cannot deteriorate.