St. Augustine on Grace and Free Will

[Anselm33]

I have been reading “On Grace and Free Will”, St. Augustine’s argument against the Pelagian heresy, and came across this thought-provoking statement:
"There is, to begin with, the fact that God’s precepts by themselves would be of no use to a man unless he had free choice of will, so that by performing them he might obtain the promised rewards. for they are given that no one might be able to plead the excuse of ignorance." (On Grace and Free Will, Chap. 2)
He goes on to say (and I don’t now have the specific quote to support this) that Grace is given arbitrarily (the fundamental point of Calvinism?) to those who have done bad–cites St, Paul as an example–and is not given as a result of good works.

What do you think?

 

[Richard_White]

Well, in response to the main quote that you posted, I agree with it, because having a true free will allows us to receive the rewards for the good that we do. If we did not have free will, then we could not be rewarded for doing the right thing, because that would have been the only thing to do in the first place.

As to the second thing, I wouldn’t be able to say without seeing the actual passage from Saint Augustine, because you may not be saying the way he meant it in his actual writing.

May God bless you and yours!

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Perhaps it would be helpful if you would first define “grace”?

This from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

“Taking into account, then, all the elements so far considered, we may define actual grace as a supernatural help of God for salutary acts granted in consideration of the merits of Christ.”

 

[Anselm33]

Well, in response to the main quote that you posted, I agree with it, because having a true free will allows us to receive the rewards for the good that we do. If we did not have free will, then we could not be rewarded for doing the right thing, because that would have been the only thing to do in the first place.

As to the second thing, I wouldn’t be able to say without seeing the actual passage from Saint Augustine, because you may not be saying the way he meant it in his actual writing.

May God bless you and yours!

Thank you for your comment. Here’s the exact quote (Chapter 12, discoursing on St. Paul’s Grace): “God, however, who returns good for evil by his grace, not according to our merits…”
There are other similar comments elsewhere.

 

[PJM]

=Anselm33;11687334]I have been reading “On Grace and Free Will”, St. Augustine’s argument against the Pelagian heresy, and came across this thought-provoking statement:
"There is, to begin with, the fact that God’s precepts by themselves would be of no use to a man unless he had free choice of will, so that by performing them he might obtain the promised rewards. for they are given that no one might be able to plead the excuse of ignorance." (On Grace and Free Will, Chap. 2)
He goes on to say (and I don’t now have the specific quote to support this) that Grace is given arbitrarily (the fundamental point of Calvinism?) to those who have done bad–cites St, Paul as an example–and is not given as a result of good works.

What do you think?

My dear friend; good choice of reading material

On your second point:

There are many types and applications of GRACE. {something I suspect Caivin didn’t know or accept?]

From Fr. HArdon’s Catholic Dictionary

http://www.therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl

"GRACE. In biblical language the condescension or benevolence (Greek charis) shown by God toward the human race; it is also the unmerited gift proceeding from this benevolent disposition. Grace, therefore, is a totally gratuitous gift on which man has absolutely no claim. Where on occasion the Scriptures speak of grace as pleasing charm or thanks for favors received, this is a derived and not primary use of the term.

As the Church has come to explain the meaning of grace, it refers to something more than the gifts of nature, such as creation or the blessings of bodily health. Grace is the supernatural gift that God, of his free benevolence, bestows on rational creatures for their eternal salvation. The gifts of grace are essentially supernatural. They surpass the being, powers, and claims of created nature, namely sanctifying grace, the infused virtues, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and actual grace. They are the indispensable means necessary to reach the beatific vision. In a secondary sense, grace also includes such blessings as the miraculous gifts of prophecy or healing, or the preternatural gifts of freedom from concupiscence.

The essence of grace, properly so called, is its gratuity, since no creature has a right to the beatific vision, and its finality or purpose is to lead one to eternal life. (Etym. Latin gratia, favor; a gift freely given.)** See also ACTUAL GRACE, EFFICACIOUS GRACE, HABITUAL GRACE, JUSTIFYING GRACE, SACRAMENTAL GRACE, SANCTIFYING GRACE, SUFFICIENT GRACE.**

Sacramental grace for example depends much our our own actions and worthiness:thumbsup:.

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[Richard_White]

Thank you for your comment. Here’s the exact quote (Chapter 12, discoursing on St. Paul’s Grace): “God, however, who returns good for evil by his grace, not according to our merits…”
There are other similar comments elsewhere.

I think that this means that we do not always necessarily merit God’s grace; however, He gives it to us anyway, because He loves us so much! For the Catechism of the Catholic Church states that grace is God’s “favor, the free and UNDESERVED help that God gives us to respond to His call to become children of God” (CCC, 1996).

 

[Peter_Plato]

I have been reading “On Grace and Free Will”, St. Augustine’s argument against the Pelagian heresy, and came across this thought-provoking statement:
"There is, to begin with, the fact that God’s precepts by themselves would be of no use to a man unless he had free choice of will, so that by performing them he might obtain the promised rewards. for they are given that no one might be able to plead the excuse of ignorance." (On Grace and Free Will, Chap. 2)
He goes on to say (and I don’t now have the specific quote to support this) that Grace is given arbitrarily (the fundamental point of Calvinism?) to those who have done bad–cites St, Paul as an example–and is not given as a result of good works.

What do you think?

I don’t think the word “arbitrarily” is the best word for what Augustine intended. Richard White is on the right track here. Augustine meant “freely” without regard to merit precisely because no human being would merit what grace entails. Augustine meant it in the same sense that God sends down rain on the good and evil alike so that no one can plead that grace was not “poured” down on them. It was, but some have made a willed decision to avail themselves of what it brings, while others do not. Just as some can make use of grace and grow crops, others will go on ignoring the “opportunity” it affords, but to their peril.

 

[Anselm33]

I don’t think the word “arbitrarily” is the best word for what Augustine intended. Richard White is on the right track here. Augustine meant “freely” without regard to merit precisely because no human being would merit what grace entails. Augustine meant it in the same sense that God sends down rain on the good and evil alike so that no one can plead that grace was not “poured” down on them. It was, but some have made a willed decision to avail themselves of what it brings, while others do not. Just as some can make use of grace and grow crops, others will go on ignoring the “opportunity” it affords, but to their peril.

You may be right, but if I read through “On Free Will and Grace”, it seems more “arbitrary” than free–i.e. totally without regard to merit, and I understand your point that there can be no merit (which was also, I believe, Calvin’s).

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Adam did not merit God’s grace, but he got it anyway and then freely threw it away.

What exactly does “merit” mean? Does it mean “earn” or does it mean “deserve”?

Adam deserved God’s grace because he was the first creature to have it. God surely would not have created Adam without giving him sufficient grace to resist temptation. But Adam could not earn that grace of his own accord. Of his own accord he could choose to throw it away and “earn” condemnation.

 

[fhansen]

You may be right, but if I read through “On Free Will and Grace”, it seems more “arbitrary” than free–i.e. totally without regard to merit, and I understand your point that there can be no merit (which was also, I believe, Calvin’s).

Sometimes I think that Augustine, in his battle against Pelegianism, may’ve over-emphasized certain points regarding the workings of grace, which is why Calvinists often embrace him as one of their own while the Catholic Church accepts most, but not necessarily all, of the thoughts conveyed in his huge body of writings. In any case, in Catholicism grace is always resistible, and while God dispenses it as He will, He’s infinitely just and fair to all of us and certainly predestines no one to hell.