St Augustine speaks

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DonMack

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I’m reading Confessions by St.Augustine and in it he speaks to God saying "…carry out the plan by which you had predetermined it should be done. What is the Catholic teaching on predestination of God. I’m not interested in any type of debate. I will conform all of my opinions to that of the Church.
Thanks in advance, Don
 
To put it EXTREMELY simply God is out side time and because of this he has the ability to know all things he does not control them.

i could go much deeper and more philosophic and others probably will but that is the easiest way to look at it.
 
Mr Theblindlead… thanks for the ‘to the point’ answer. In checking your other posts, I see that you certainly have the ability to answer much more deeply and I especially appreciate your wisdom to know when ‘simple is best’ . If I could gain all the knowledge in the world, I know that it could never exceed my faith,
Thanks again. Don
 
Some historical background (if you want a more long-winded answer 😛 )

Augustine’s Confessions touch on the idea of predestination, and his later writings emphasize it significantly more, as he became more cynical of the human condition. I know, after reading Confessions it’s hard to believe the man could be much more pessimistic about the human condition! 😉

St. Thomas Aquinas and later Ignatius of Loyola (the latter had to deal with the rise of Calvinism) did not necessarily contradict Augustine’s teachings (which are supported heavily by St. Paul’s epistles), but they did downplay his thoughts on predestination significantly. The change was essentially a shift of emphasis. They essentially said (paraphrasing), “Of course God knows where we’ll end up, but if we focus too much on this whole predestination thing, we get lost in the fact that we do make real choices that have a real impact on the world. So don’t worry about it.”

Calvinists often claim(ed) that Catholicism “lost” St. Augustine, but the more accurate reality is that the Catholic Church simply thinks that Calvinists miss the point on the whole Predestination thing. By placing so much emphasis on it, people are liable to forget that they have any sort of agency over anything.

Augustine’s writings are an excellent spiritual exercise in humbling ourselves and realizing that, though we can and do make real choices, we are entirely dependent on God’s grace for our capacity to overcome our baser human nature.

Apologies for the less succinct response. I’m just a huge Augustine fan. Confessions brought me back to the Church after a significant time of inactivity and apathy.
 
Don,
What is the Catholic teaching on predestination of God
While trying to comprehend the Catholic teaching on predestination two things are very important to keep in mind, 1) Divine Providence 2) God predestines no one to go to hell. (CCC 1037)

To God everything is in the present. So contemplating this great mystery we can get a small glimpse how He knows exactly how everyone will act using their free will and how we will respond to grace.
“To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of ‘predestination,’ he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: ‘In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.’ [Acts 4:27-28, cf Ps. 2:1-2] For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.”
Again, when trying to conceptualize predestination we must avoid double-predestination.
If anyone shall say that the grace of justification is attained by those only who are predestined unto life, but that all others, who are called, are called indeed, but do not receive grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil, let him be anathema.
The Council of Trent
 
Thanks to ALL!! St. Augustine’s writings speak to me in so many ways. I hope to read many more of his works.The book Confessions is taking a real long time to read,not because I don’t understand but because each page seems to have a phrase or thought that really increases my understanding. His eloquence and thought process gives me so much to think about that it takes about 1 hour to get through it. I asked the question only to see if I need to adjust my feelings about free will… Thankfully I don’t.
Thanks again to all…Don:thumbsup:
 
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