St. Augustine & the Orthodox Churches

[Emil3]

What are the ‘key’ reasons why the ‘Orthodox’ and the Eastern Catholic Churches in general seem to be so averse to St. Augustine? Some act as if his philosophy/theology–(as accepted by Rome)-- was a crucial point in the division of the churches. I had a discussion with an Antiochan Priest and Deacon recently at a ‘40-day’ repast wherein they argued that Augustine’s views were very ‘Platonic’ and that this ‘platonism’ did not imbue itself in the Orthodox Church. I have studied quite a bit of Thomistic/Aristotlian metaphysics which is the opposite of many of Plato’s concepts. Can some light be shed on this issue? To put it simply, what is the story re St. Augustine and the Orthodox and is there any conflict with the later views of St. Thomas Aquinas?

 

[cfh99nyc]

Hello, this is a great question! I just recently downloaded an orthodox bible study dealing with saints from an orthodox perspective. the main reason they don’t like augustine (this “platonic” nonsense is just an excuse) is because he defended doctrines like the “filioque” [and the son]. augustine was very catholic and you just cant see orthodoxy in his writings. he defended the pope and the sacrifical nature of the mass ect…
when the church split in 1054 it was over doctrines which augustine affirmed and the east denied so they blame him for “not being balanced out by the east” ect… but this is unfounded.

blogcatalog.com/post/078d2b9d090882f7fd749c2f6e2a18f5

 

[Teflon93]

Because St Augustine was a fierce defender against heresy and a supporter of the authority of the Church. As bishop of Hippo, he doesn’t fit into the revisionist history box modern Orthodox have constructed for us, wherein it is Rome against the rest of the Church, period.

 

[prodromos]

I just recently downloaded an orthodox bible study dealing with saints from an orthodox perspective. the main reason they don’t like augustine (this “platonic” nonsense is just an excuse) is because he defended doctrines like the “filioque” [and the son].

That is utter rubbish. We find a lot that is good in Augustine’s writings but when he tries to delve into the nature of God his thinking is thoroughly rooted in Plotinus.

augustine was very catholic and you just cant see orthodoxy in his writings.

It is apparent that you are either not familiar with Augustine’s works (he was a prolific writer) or you have a very limited understanding of Orthodoxy, otherwise you would not make such a baseless statement.

he defended the pope and the sacrifical nature of the mass ect…

In the former I assume you mean the “papacy”, otherwise I am at a loss how you believe the Orthodox do not defend bishops. In the latter, the Orthodox believe the Divine Liturgy is a participation in the one time sacrifice made by Christ on the Cross. It is actually a participation in the entirety of the incarnation, from conception to glorious ascension, so I believe you must be confusing us with your Protestant brethren.

when the church split in 1054 it was over doctrines which augustine affirmed and the east denied so they blame him for “not being balanced out by the east” ect… but this is unfounded.

It is not Augustine’s fault for being ignorant of Eastern theology, it is the fault of the Church in the West for not discerning Augustine’s errors.

orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/bless_aug.aspx

John

 

[Teflon93]

It is not Augustine’s fault for being ignorant of Eastern theology, it is the fault of the Church in the West for not discerning Augustine’s errors.

orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/bless_aug.aspx

John

Has there ever been anything which was not the fault of the Church in the West in your opinion, John?

How did St Augustine manage to keep so abreast of the development of doctrine in the Church that he was a scourge of heresy? One would think that the Church was structured by the 4th century and part of a single Mediterranean empire or something…

 

[Emil3]

That is utter rubbish. We find a lot that is good in Augustine’s writings but when he tries to delve into the nature of God his thinking is thoroughly rooted in Plotinus.
It is apparent that you are either not familiar with Augustine’s works (he was a prolific writer) or you have a very limited understanding of Orthodoxy, otherwise you would not make such a baseless statement.
In the former I assume you mean the “papacy”, otherwise I am at a loss how you believe the Orthodox do not defend bishops. In the latter, the Orthodox believe the Divine Liturgy is a participation in the one time sacrifice made by Christ on the Cross. It is actually a participation in the entirety of the incarnation, from conception to glorious ascension, so I believe you must be confusing us with your Protestant brethren.
It is not Augustine’s fault for being ignorant of Eastern theology, it is the fault of the Church in the West for not discerning Augustine’s errors.

orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/bless_aug.aspx

John

You state that St. Augustine was ‘thoroughly roooted in Plotinus’ when he delved into the nature of God; would you please discuss/explain this to a degree because, indeed, Plotinus was a ‘platonic’ follower and the RC Church follows the metaphysics of Aristotle. Also, you state that the Church of the West did not discern his errors.—WHAT ERRORS?;–Did he recant any? In this is the heart & meat of my original post…I sincerely wish to know this Orthodox viewpoint and any Roman Catholic rebuttals…Thanks