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Praesidium
Guest
I’m trying to prove to someone St. Christopher is really a Saint but I can’t find any church documents online. I was wondering if anybody had any. (sorry for being pithy…I’m really short on time)
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kam1953f
Guest
In 1969, a number of saints were removed from the universal calendar of saints. This was because there was too little proof that they’d actually existed. Some of the most famous saints, around whom the most vivid stories had grown, were among these: St. Christopher was one.
Here newadvent.org/cathen/03728a.htm is a pretty good article with the legends surrounding Christopher. The poor guy is a victim of his own popularity, I believe. Because the stories and superstitions about him are better known than the truth (that he was probably a martyr sometime between the third and sixth centuries), the Church declared that Christopher should be celebrated less widely. Notwithstanding the calendar of saints, Christopher is still passionately celebrated in many places on his old feast day, July 25, or March 9th in the Byzantine rite.
This site has a beautiful old fresco(?) of Christopher:
www.catholic.org
Here newadvent.org/cathen/03728a.htm is a pretty good article with the legends surrounding Christopher. The poor guy is a victim of his own popularity, I believe. Because the stories and superstitions about him are better known than the truth (that he was probably a martyr sometime between the third and sixth centuries), the Church declared that Christopher should be celebrated less widely. Notwithstanding the calendar of saints, Christopher is still passionately celebrated in many places on his old feast day, July 25, or March 9th in the Byzantine rite.
This site has a beautiful old fresco(?) of Christopher:
St. Christopher - Saints & Angels - Catholic Online
Saint Christopher is one of the most popular Catholic Christian heroes of the Faith. He is a saint, indeed listed as a martyr. He may have also been named Reprobus. He apparently died under the Roman Emperor Decius, in 251 AD. Most Catholics refer to him as Saint Christopher anyway, and his...
www.catholic.org
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Hellisreal
Guest
St. Christopher was not formally canonised, so finding documents will be tough…it was more like by public demand and popularity and prior to the time where papal approval for such a thing was introduced.
I would not try to prove a pious legend but would refer to him as a martyr if it were me. Some people seem to think that by bringing up people like St. Christopher they “gotcha” and can “prove” the church just makes things up as it goes along. I dont think its worthwhile to argue with such people, who next will ask you about Veronica or some such thing. I don’t like defending things that dont need defense. Turn the topic around to the Chruch teachings and get them to prove the Church has been teaching false things.
Just my advice for what its worth and good luck with discussing this with your friend.
I would not try to prove a pious legend but would refer to him as a martyr if it were me. Some people seem to think that by bringing up people like St. Christopher they “gotcha” and can “prove” the church just makes things up as it goes along. I dont think its worthwhile to argue with such people, who next will ask you about Veronica or some such thing. I don’t like defending things that dont need defense. Turn the topic around to the Chruch teachings and get them to prove the Church has been teaching false things.
Just my advice for what its worth and good luck with discussing this with your friend.
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johnstown_johnn
Guest
There were people during Christ time whose names were unknown to the writer. For example, St. Veronica. This is the woman who wiped Our Lord’s face with her veil and His imaged took hold onto the veil. She was given the name “Veronicva” as more of a description and it was a contrived name meaning, “True Image.” In Greek, “Vero” is “True” and “Ica/Icon” means “Image.” Thus she was named Veronica.
In an incident (folklore) in the Holy Land at Jesus ’ early years men were hired to carry people over to the other side of a waist-deep stream. The men were strong men with stamina.
One such man carried the boy Jesus and as he advanced through the waters the boy became heavier and heavier; so much so, that the man felt like he was carrying the world on his shoulders and it was true, vicariously, because the BOY had the world in His hands.
The name Christopher means “Christ carrier”.
In an incident (folklore) in the Holy Land at Jesus ’ early years men were hired to carry people over to the other side of a waist-deep stream. The men were strong men with stamina.
One such man carried the boy Jesus and as he advanced through the waters the boy became heavier and heavier; so much so, that the man felt like he was carrying the world on his shoulders and it was true, vicariously, because the BOY had the world in His hands.
The name Christopher means “Christ carrier”.
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Unitas
Guest
I’d love to find a list of the saints whose feasts were dropped. I can’t seem to find one.
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AJV
Guest
His name is inscribed in the martyrology on 25th July. It is on certain particular national calendars also.
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Hellisreal
Guest
I am currently checking this out, so if you find it before me, let us or me
Know your results.
Thanks!
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Andruschak
Guest
One was Saint Philomena. So what? I wear her cord around my waist. I pray to her daily. I have a little shrine to her in my living room.
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LilyM
Guest
I know St Catherine of Alexandria is one, St Valentine is another, St Barbara, and St George is also.One was Saint Philomena. So what? I wear her cord around my waist. I pray to her daily. I have a little shrine to her in my living room.
In total there were I think 200 saints removed in the 60s - not all at once, so you probably won’t find a comprehensive list.
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Hellisreal
Guest
Interesting you mention St George, as he would also fall under the pious legend category…
I thought of him too right away, but then realized that I am already showing my age as it is.
What I wish people understood was that being dropped from the calandar means nothing!
Think of how many saints we have and how many days there are in the year!
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AJV
Guest
St. Catherine of Alexandria was quietly restored to the General Calendar and has an Office and Mass in the Latin editions of the liturgical books but not in the English.
As for St. George, he’s now there on April 23 as an Optional Memoria in the General calendar. His collect (from the UK edition of the LOTH) is:
Unitas, when you said list of saints dropped, did you mean the ones dropped for unverifiableness or just all the ones dropped from the General Calendar?
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AJV
Guest
St. Catherine of Alexandria was quietly restored (2001, I think) to the General Calendar and has an Office and Mass (Nov. 25) in the Latin editions of the liturgical books but not in the English.
As for St. George, he’s now there on April 23 as an Optional Memoria in the General calendar. His collect (from the UK edition of the LOTH) is:
Unitas, when you said list of saints dropped, did you mean the ones dropped for unverifiableness or just all the ones dropped from the General Calendar?
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Genesis315
Guest
Just to be clear, being dropped from the universal calendar doesn’t mean the person is no longer a saint. In fact, they can be celebrated on the local calendar. Catherine of Alexandria, for example, is actually still on the calendar in my old diocese.
edit: seeing the post above, I she was restored and my diocese was not the only one to celebrate her
The reason they were dropped is that it is more edifying for that day to be used for a Saint we know a lot about and who we can definitively hold up as model for the faithful.
edit: seeing the post above, I she was restored and my diocese was not the only one to celebrate her
The reason they were dropped is that it is more edifying for that day to be used for a Saint we know a lot about and who we can definitively hold up as model for the faithful.
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