St Cyril of Jerusalem, Divorce and Polygamy

[DL82]

In St Cyril of Jerusalem’s Catechetical Lectures, he talks about some Christian men who have taken two wives.

Is this part of the reason the Orthodox accept divorce and re-marriage? Is it simply an acknowledgement of a pre-Christian polygamous culture in that part of the world, i.e. you can only be with one wife at a time, and marriage is for life, BUT if you get a divorce you can also have a second wife?

Or am I missing the point. I remember reading this and thinking what?! but then maybe I’ve mis-read it, or maybe it was mistranslated.

 

[chrisb]

In St Cyril of Jerusalem’s Catechetical Lectures, he talks about some Christian men who have taken two wives.

Is this part of the reason the Orthodox accept divorce and re-marriage? Is it simply an acknowledgement of a pre-Christian polygamous culture in that part of the world, i.e. you can only be with one wife at a time, and marriage is for life, BUT if you get a divorce you can also have a second wife?

Or am I missing the point. I remember reading this and thinking what?! but then maybe I’ve mis-read it, or maybe it was mistranslated.

Ultimately, I don’t know. But that has never stopped me in commenting before.

Where are the Muslims when you need them to plug polygamy?

Frankly, I’ve never seen a solid refute of polygamy on only Biblical Grounds but I know it seems to circle around the idea that we are ‘all’ members of the Holy Priesthood and Priests and Deacons are only allowed ‘one’ wife. In the West, this is interpreted to mean only ‘one’ wife for life where as it can also mean ‘one’ wife at any one time. People who are Priests and Deacons have not such restriction now do they?

hmmmm…

 

[Isa_Almisry]

In St Cyril of Jerusalem’s Catechetical Lectures, he talks about some Christian men who have taken two wives.

Is this part of the reason the Orthodox accept divorce and re-marriage? Is it simply an acknowledgement of a pre-Christian polygamous culture in that part of the world, i.e. you can only be with one wife at a time, and marriage is for life, BUT if you get a divorce you can also have a second wife?

Or am I missing the point. I remember reading this and thinking what?! but then maybe I’ve mis-read it, or maybe it was mistranslated.

Remarriage, according to the Fathers and the Orthodox today, is polygamy, even if the remarriage is a widow/er. Hence the reason why second wedding rite is not the same as the first marriage.

And why no one is ordained who is remarried, or married to a widow.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Remarriage, according to the Fathers and the Orthodox today, is polygamy, even if the remarriage is a widow/er. Hence the reason why second wedding rite is not the same as the first marriage.

And why no one is ordained who is remarried, or married to a widow.

Isa, how does this play with the Scripture that talks about the woman who is married to multiple men: Matthew 22:23-33; Mark 12:18-27; Luke 20:27-40?

In my mind, this means that the marriage covenant only lasts until death - hence the vows (at least in the Catholic Church) “'til death do us part”.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Isa, how does this play with the Scripture that talks about the woman who is married to multiple men: Matthew 22:23-33; Mark 12:18-27; Luke 20:27-40?

In my mind, this means that the marriage covenant only lasts until death - hence the vows (at least in the Catholic Church) “'til death do us part”.

Then how is it a Holy Mystery of Christ and His Church? Does that end at death? At death it is only beginning.

It’s a little late now for me to go into this, I’ll try to return (though I dealt with this at LENGTH somewhere).

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3163812&highlight=polygamy#post3163812
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3253381&highlight=polygamy#post3253381
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3163812&highlight=polygamy#post3163812

In the meantime, the OP is talking about the mind of the Fathers and that is what they called polygamy. Whether this agrees with Scripture is another question (which I answer in the affirmative).

It is NOT the Qurban of annullment.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Then how is it a Holy Mystery of Christ and His Church? Does that end at death? At death it is only beginning.

Not all of the Mysteries leave an indelible mark. For example, say one goes to Confession. Christ imparts the grace of forgiveness through this Mystery, but that grace doesn’t last forever. The effects last a variable amount of time (depending on the actions of the individual), but the grace itself is only imparted once at the time of absolution. If one lives as they should, then they remain in that state of grace and forgiveness. But, one can immediately go and again do something stupid that requires more forgiveness.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Not all of the Mysteries leave an indelible mark. For example, say one goes to Confession. Christ imparts the grace of forgiveness through this Mystery, but that grace doesn’t last forever. The effects last a variable amount of time (depending on the actions of the individual), but the grace itself is only imparted once at the time of absolution. If one lives as they should, then they remain in that state of grace and forgiveness. But, one can immediately go and again do something stupid that requires more forgiveness.

It is expected that you will repeat confession. Over and over, until you die.

It is not expected that you get married over and over. It fact, that nullifes the purpose, and in the Orthoodox Church has an absolute limit of three strikes and you are out.

 

[DL82]

It is expected that you will repeat confession. Over and over, until you die.

It is not expected that you get married over and over. It fact, that nullifes the purpose, and in the Orthoodox Church has an absolute limit of three strikes and you are out.

Does that include if you are widowed? So even if you were really unlucky and had three wives who died or three husbands who died young, you couldn’t remarry?

To be honest though, if you lost 3 spouses in your youth, you probably wouldn’t want to remarry.

Still, if you look at the book of Tobit, there should always be hope.

Doesn’t St Paul say something about a wife not being bound if her husband dies? (I don’t have the quote to hand right now).

 

[Aramis]

Does that include if you are widowed? So even if you were really unlucky and had three wives who died or three husbands who died young, you couldn’t remarry?

At least for the OCA, yes. It’s in their statutes.

To be honest though, if you lost 3 spouses in your youth, you probably wouldn’t want to remarry.

Still, if you look at the book of Tobit, there should always be hope.

Doesn’t St Paul say something about a wife not being bound if her husband dies? (I don’t have the quote to hand right now).

yes. But that can be seen as economia. A woman in those times could not work to support herself with any reliability. Therefore, if she had no son to support her, a second husband was better than starvation or worse, prostitution, concubinage or theft.

 

[JMJ_coder]

It is expected that you will repeat confession. Over and over, until you die.

It is not expected that you get married over and over. It fact, that nullifes the purpose, and in the Orthoodox Church has an absolute limit of three strikes and you are out.

The point I was having to make is there is a difference between Sacraments that can only be received once and those that can be received multiple times (with varying frequencies, obviously).

I am curious as to why the Orthodox teach that the Sacrament of Marriage can only be properly received once - and maybe a couple other times based on economia.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

The point I was having to make is there is a difference between Sacraments that can only be received once and those that can be received multiple times (with varying frequencies, obviously).

I am curious as to why the Orthodox teach that the Sacrament of Marriage can only be properly received once - and maybe a couple other times based on economia.

Because if it’s not the first one for both, there’s always, in someway, someone else in the marriage.