St Francis de Sales - The nature of true mortification

[BarbaraTherese]

St Francis de Sales is one of the most gentlest of spiritual directors and yet encourages the soul to the heights of sanctity…His wonderful spiritual work “Introduction to The Devout Life” was written in the 16th. century specifically for lay people which was most unusual because lay people in those days tended to adopt a strictly monastic spirituality …I will return and post a link to an online text …
St. Francis de Sales “Introduction to The Devout Life”
ccel.org/ccel/desales/devout_life.toc.html

Blessings …Barb

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. . . It is necessary before all things, my daughter, to obtain tranquillity, not because it is the mother of contentment, but because it is the daughter of the love of God and of the resignation of our own will.

The opportunities of practicing it are daily. For contradictions are not wanting wherever we are; and when nobody else makes them, we make them for ourselves. My God! How holy, my dear daughter, and how agreeable to God we should be, if we knew how to use properly the subjects of mortification that our vocation affords! For they are without doubt greater than among religious; the evil is that we do not make use of them as they do.

iHs

 

[InLight247]

Do not torment yourself to do much, but suffer with love what you have to suffer. God will be gracious to you, Madame, and will give you the grace to arrange this more retired life of which you speak to me. Whether languishing “or living or dying, we are the Lord’s” and nothing, with the help of His grace, will separate us from this holy love. Never shall our heart live, save in Him and for Him; He shall be for ever “the God of our heart.” I will never cease to beg this of Him, nor to be entirely in Him.

Thanks Barb for another good information. I have read his Devout Life but I am not familiar with this letter. I love the above paragraph, how true it is! We are always the Lord’s. Nothing can separate us from His love.

I used to have question about Roman 8:35 :“Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Trial, or distress, or persecution, or hunger, or nakedness, or danger, or the sword?” I used to ask if God love us so much, why does He allow distress, danger or sword?

Then I realize the reason I have such question is because I see things from my point of view,
I-centered. God has sovereignty, His wisdom is ultimate. For carrying out His divine plan, whatever He sees necessary will be done. When trial comes, we, as part of God’s divine plan, can only suffer with love. If we suffer with love, then nothing will separate us from Him.

I am currently suffering with love for couple things. I pray with the help of God’s grace I will walk out well. So far so good.

 

[ncjohn]

Thanks Barb for another good information. I have read his Devout Life but I am not familiar with this letter. I love the above paragraph, how true it is! We are always the Lord’s. Nothing can separate us from His love.

I used to have question about Roman 8:35 :“Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Trial, or distress, or persecution, or hunger, or nakedness, or danger, or the sword?” I used to ask if God love us so much, why does He allow distress, danger or sword?

Then I realize the reason I have such question is because I see things from my point of view,
I-centered. God has sovereignty, His wisdom is ultimate. For carrying out His divine plan, whatever He sees necessary will be done. When trial comes, we, as part of God’s divine plan, can only suffer with love. If we suffer with love, then nothing will separate us from Him.

I am currently suffering with love for couple things. I pray with the help of God’s grace I will walk out well. So far so good.

And of course the key comes when we can also accept suffering as a “gift” from God, recognizing that *whatever *God puts in our life is providential and for our best interests.

Sadly, I have to admit that I am nowhere close to that yet, and will have to be dragged kickinig and screaming into suffering–muttering all the way. I might be able to recognize the providence of it later but it isn’t someplace I’m going to “choose” to go. Chosen mortification? Not yet…

Peace,

 

[InLight247]

… I might be able to recognize the providence of it later but it isn’t someplace I’m going to “choose” to go. Chosen mortification? Not yet…

Peace,

No, not to choose. Like I mentioned in the Childlike thread, I always fear if giving my total surrender will result in more suffering because the increase of the trial capacity.

There is enough suffering in life without asking for more. But when suffering comes, when you cannot avoid it, I think the only choice is to suffer with love. I pray hard for my sufferings to pass. Before they are over, I offer them up.

 

[ncjohn]

There is enough suffering in life without asking for more. But when suffering comes, when you cannot avoid it, I think the only choice is to suffer with love. I pray hard for my sufferings to pass. Before they are over, I offer them up.

Then you’re way beyond me–at least most of the time. I think I’m still at the whining stage until well after the crisis has passed., at least a good part of the time.

 

[InLight247]

Then you’re way beyond me–at least most of the time. I think I’m still at the whining stage until well after the crisis has passed., at least a good part of the time.

Well John, Holy Spirit works differently in everyone. I just start to feel the way I am feeling recently. And I know it is not me, it is He who is in me. “He who is in you is greater then he who is in the world.”

I have been through some physical uncertainty lately. After going through different exams, I am still in the dark. There is some other procedure scheduled in the near future. Before, I would be so scared and worried, but now I feel actually joy and peace in my heart. I am surprised at my own mood. When I talk to people, I smile and laugh and I know I am not pretending. It amazed myself. And in my heart, I know I am OK. It is like the presence of God is so close and so real and I cannot be anxious even I want to.

My own physical is not the only hardship I am going through at the moment. My birth mother is currently in a critical condition in hospital. And not long ago my mother in law just passed away with a sudden death. I can only thank God bring me to my current stage of closeness with Him. And I pray all the sufferings will be lifted up soon. And I certainly can use prayers from any of you. Thanks.

Peace.

 

[ncjohn]

My prayers are indeed with you as you endure these hardships, InLight. You have been given a lot to deal with right now.

I do have periods when I am at great peace, even during suffering. In fact, it is usually when I am not able to come to peace, or I find myself getting out of sorts or “reacting” to people rather than responding, that I know that it’s time to get some quiet time with God.

I certainly do better at all that than I used to, but certainly not to the level of finding joy in it, or finding it to be a providential gift. All things in good time though.

Peace be with you,

 

[InLight247]

My prayers are indeed with you as you endure these hardships, InLight.
…
I certainly do better at all that than I used to, but certainly not to the level of finding joy in it, or finding it to be a providential gift. All things in good time though.
Peace be with you,

Thanks for the much needed prayers. I don’t find joy in my suffering, never.

What I was saying was in spite of the suffering, I still have joy in my heart. This joy is the joy of the Lord, never the joy of the suffering. I don’t want to be like the Saints to welcome the suffering. I don’t welcome suffering at all. I want to avoid suffering, run away from it.

I try to thank God for hard situation, not thank Him for the situation, but thank God for being in control in the situation.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Quoting InLight:
*

Thanks Barb for another good information. I have read his Devout Life but I am not familiar with this letter. I love the above paragraph, how true it is! We are always the Lord’s. Nothing can separate us from His love.

Hi again InLight…………Actually I stumbled over these letters on the internet, which are taken from a book of letters from St. Francis de Sales apparenlty. If you go to the link on the letter and scroll down to the bottom of the page, you will see a link to purchase the booklet. I had never read these letters either.

When trial comes, we, as part of God’s divine plan, can only suffer with love. If we suffer with love, then nothing will separate us from Him.

Well insighted!

I am currently suffering with love for couple things. I pray with the help of God’s grace I will walk out well.

I will keep you in prayer that God continues to sustain you with strength.

Quoting NCJohn:

InLight: And of course the key comes when we can also accept suffering as a “gift” from God, recognizing that *whatever *

God puts in our life is providential and for our best interests.

John: Sadly, I have to admit that I am nowhere close to that yet, and will have to be dragged kickinig and screaming into suffering–muttering all the way. I might be able to recognize the providence of it later but it isn’t someplace I’m going to “choose” to go. Chosen mortification? Not yet…

At times I am dragged too John, and kicking and screaming, to some kind of suffering and with muttering too all the way and after. Other times I can respond better. In the dynamics of the spirituality of St. Francis (and most others) the way to go is to see the kicking and screaming as a mortification and humiliation – an opportunity to be humble, and the times one does better as a time for praise and thanking God. As for ‘chosen’ mortification, again in the theology of St. Francis and most others, acceptance of God’s Will either perfectly or imperfectly transcends chosen mortifications for we are still choosing our own will. God’s Will transcends absolutely everything one can think of and we can unite ourselves to it in every moment. And in the state of Grace, all is Grace, including those times that we respond etc. badly or poorly…if we only invest in the Grace offered.

One of my biggest weaknesses are my involuntary thoughts thoughts. I used to take comfort in “involuntary” until this morning actually it hit me that though involuntary, they still reflect what is deep and not conscious in me…an expression probably of what I repress coming to the surface of consciousness involuntarily. I discovered this morning that I need to own my WHOLE self.

Quoting InLight
*

• And I certainly can use prayers from any of you. *

Will keep this in prayer…………

What I was saying was in spite of the suffering, I still have joy in my heart. This joy is the joy of the Lord, never the joy of the suffering. I don’t want to be like the Saints to welcome the suffering. I don’t welcome suffering at all. I want to avoid suffering, run away from it.

I can find no joy in suffering, but I can rejoice in my will since God’s Permissive Will is allowing me to suffer and for good purposes and ends – I can rejoice in that in Faith only. I often reason that if one is finding joy in suffering, then can it truly be called suffering? Be that as it may, I can subscribe to the concept that many of our saints have found joy in suffering which is a Gift of God and a great Grace I think. Be all that asit may…can it still be called suffering? Objectively it can be called suffering of course, but subjectively one is not suffering, rather is joyful

Blessings all – Barb iHs

 

[InLight247]

I can find no joy in suffering, but I can rejoice in my will since God’s Permissive Will is allowing me to suffer and for good purposes and ends – I can rejoice in that in Faith only.

I think only Saints can find joy in suffering.
In his letter 16, Brother Lawrence said,

"When we are convinced that it is the hand of God at work in us – that he is a Father full of love who allows us to endure humiliation, pain, and suffering - all the bitterness is taken away, and only the sweetness remains.

I cannot even say I rejoice in suffering by faith.
Right now I am under much stress. But I do feel the joy of the Lord in my heart. This joy has nothing to do with the suffering. It is like two opposite things simultaneously exist. On one hand I have lot of worries and pains, on the other hand I feel the closeness of the Lord, and sometimes this joy just rises from my heart. But this joy has nothing to do with welcoming the suffering because I don’t. This joy is from the presence of the Lord.

I don’t know if this makes sense.

Thanks for your prayer, Barb.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I think only Saints can find joy in suffering.
In his letter 16, Brother Lawrence said,

I cannot even say I rejoice in suffering by faith.
Right now I am under much stress. But I do feel the joy of the Lord in my heart. This joy has nothing to do with the suffering. It is like two opposite things simultaneously exist. On one hand I have lot of worries and pains, on the other hand I feel the closeness of the Lord, and sometimes this joy just rises from my heart. But this joy has nothing to do with welcoming the suffering because I don’t. This joy is from the presence of the Lord.

I don’t know if this makes sense.

Thanks for your prayer, Barb.

Hi InLight…I must confess I cannot understand, but I am very sure those more advanced than I may well understand. And then again, The Lord grants different Graces to different souls. St. Teresa of Avila was careful to point out that what she outlined was not necessarily the sum total of God’s Graces - which are without limit.
Blessings - Barb
iHs