St. John Bosco's Vision of Hell- "Grave" sins

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Just got done reading St. John Bosco’s vision of hell. If you scroll toward the bottom, according to his dream, God tells him that some boys went to hell for disobdience such as sneaking out at night. Some even went to hell for things like daydreaming in church instead of praying. Are these really “grave” mortal sins? Becuase the Catholic Church teaches that in order to get to hell one must committ mortal sins.

How much credibility do people put into this revelation as compared to others like Fatima?
 
Best line: “Do you really believe that some of them would reform if you were to warn them?”

Anyway, adults who think like children are judged as adults, not as children. One’s mind wandering off in church is just a description of what the kid did, not an explanation of what he was really doing.
 
All sin is disobedience. So, yes, people are damned for disobedience. I think you’re misunderstanding the dream though. Nowhere is it said or implied that those sins, in themselves were mortal sins - although they could’ve been - but it’s stated that those sins are what could lead to their damnation (the dream was prophetic). They start small and end big.
 
Be careful with this website, it looks to be sedevacanist.
 
spencer2 said:
Be careful with this website, it looks to be sedevacanist.
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It is. From their site:

In Today’s Catholic World carries the approbation in writing of the (True) Petrine Hierarchy in exile i.e., connected with Pope Gregory XVII. It faithfully adheres to the rules for Catholic Journals mandated by Leo XIII in the Apostolic Constitution Officiorum ac Munerum, January 25, 1897 - so heavily re-stressed by Pius X in Pascendi Dominici Gregis, September 8, 1907.
 
Careful yes. Nothing wrong with the quoted part about St. John Bosco’s Vision of Hell though. True story that.

I wonder what, fifty years back… a list of mortal sins for children would’ve looked like.

I don’t know… so I wonder. It is not as if they are incapable of it.

I say fifty years back because folks seem to think no children go to Hell these days… even back then, I suspect that viewpoint had a good hold…

Worth looking into more of. Not sure how much material might be out there though.

Hmm. I bet Fr. Furniss’s books might help on that… still haven’t gotten ahold of more than one of them though.
 
Shin said:
because folks seem to think no children go to Hell these days
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I’m kind of in that school of thought, to an extent.

Most children don’t know anything beyond what they’ve been taught (this applies to many adults as well, unfortunately). The concept of sin and self-control are pretty hard to grasp for a child. I doubt they commit many of the sins they do with full consent and full knowledge.

So purgatory? Yes, for probably 95% of all believers. Hell? For most of these children, no. But there are some who murder, who steal, who do a lot of evil, refuse to repent, and have full knowledge of and full consent for what they’re doing.
 
I read that sermon and it is very desparing especially for those who have scruples. It is a great scare tactic and eye opener for those that are spiritually lazy. If it’s true then most of us on this board will be amongst the dammed.
 
I don’t think it’s a cause for despair… we should always hope… but a call for true conversion… and to take seriously the necessity for others to convert…

‘God certainly desires our greatest good more than we ourselves desire it. He knows better than we by what way it can come to us; and the choice of ways is wholly in His hands, as it is He who governs and regulates all that occurs in the world. It is, then, most certain that in all chances that can befall, whatever may happen will always be best for us.’

St Augustine
 
=notredame_999;7127902]todayscatholicworld.com/bosco_hell.htm
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Just got done reading St. John Bosco’s vision of hell. If you scroll toward the bottom, according to his dream, God tells him that some boys went to hell for disobdience such as sneaking out at night. Some even went to hell for things like daydreaming in church instead of praying. Are these really “grave” mortal sins? Becuase the Catholic Church teaches that in order to get to hell one must committ mortal sins.
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How much credibility do people put into this revelation as compared to others like Fatima?
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Actually not.

Certainly the CC teaches that unconfessed Mortal sins will land one in hell. BUT She [the CC] does not say that is the ONLY way; just the most clear and most certain.

Consider what Christ say’s about the need for charity for example.

Matt.7: 1-5 "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
[4] Or how can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. "

**13-18 **"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.”

** Matt.19: 17** And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. **If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” **

**Mark.12 :31, 33 **The second is this, `**You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these." **" and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices."
 
If John Bosco’s statement is true (and it just doesn’t sound like him), then no one is saved. No one.

Unless, of course, there is final contrition. 😉
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
If John Bosco’s statement is true (and it just doesn’t sound like him), then no one is saved. No one.

Unless, of course, there is final contrition. 😉
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Actually, that’s exaggerating it. 🙂 It is true.

St. John Bosco’s vision (books of his dreams and stories are splendid I might add, and also not all so fearsome)… reminds me of Fr. John Furniss’s ‘The Sight of Hell’.

Read very similarly I think.
 
Shin said:
I wonder what, fifty years back… a list of mortal sins for children would’ve looked like.

I don’t know… so I wonder. It is not as if they are incapable of it.

I say fifty years back because folks seem to think no children go to Hell these days… even back then, I suspect that viewpoint had a good hold…

.
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I seem to recall that fifty years ago the nuns teaching at a rather expensive Catholic school in this city declared that it was a mortal sin for a girl to enter the chapel when the Blessed Sacrament was exposed if she were not wearing white gloves.
Most of the girls I discussed this with giggled.
 
Shin said:
Actually, that’s exaggerating it. 🙂 It is true.

St. John Bosco’s vision (books of his dreams and stories are splendid I might add, and also not all so fearsome)… reminds me of Fr. John Furniss’s ‘The Sight of Hell’.

Read very similarly I think.
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Who knew there was a Catholic counterpart to the Puritan preacher Jonathan Edwards’ Sinners In the Hands of An Angry God?
 
PJM said:
Actually not.

Certainly the CC teaches that unconfessed Mortal sins will land one in hell. BUT She [the CC] does not say that is the ONLY way; just the most clear and most certain.

Consider what Christ say’s about the need for charity for example.
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I do believe what Christ has said and I see another thread that you’ve visited counts the lukewarm as being in grave danger, which I can also understand (although some, me included, may have slight problems staying objective on that :confused:). I’d just like some further elaboration from Saints, Church documents and so on. I’ve been under the impression that only unrepented mortal sin causes souls to be damned.

If anyone else has any words of wisdom on this matter, please do share!

Thanks!
 
nahbios said:
I do believe what Christ has said and I see another thread that you’ve visited counts the lukewarm as being in grave danger, which I can also understand (although some, me included, may have slight problems staying objective on that :confused:).
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Revelation 3:15-19:
And to the angel of the church in La-odice’a write: The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation. I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of My mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing; not knowing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. Therefore I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire, that you may be rich, and white garments to clothe you and to keep the shame of your nakedness from being seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, that you may see. Those whom I love, I reprove and chasten; so be zealous and repent.
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