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Hi all this is my first comment on the entire site, and must admit he’ll deeply frightens. Me and I’m finding myself thinking more on Gods Wrath these days rather than his Love and Mercy as I really don’t want to end up in hell but just dont feel I’m doing enough or repenting right and my confessions are a shambles, is there any hope for someone like myself ? How can I overcome my Fears of God to be immersed in his love and mercy ? I’m a really bad/ terrible sinner and just can’t break this way of life and feel there is no one to console me except Our Lord Jesus whom I’m trying to find a relationship with but my fear seems to be stronger and I feel afraid when going to confession or receiving communion aswell as pretty stupid when walking towards the priest to receive the sacraments and I don’t feel like the penance given to me after confession is enough to Atone for my sins!!!
M
MikeDunphy
Guest
Repent and repent and repent. It’s the only way. However many times you turn away from God’s way, you can still turn back towards God, but you have to mean it. God knows you’re weak and your confessions aren’t perfect, but He doesn’t ask any more from you than you can give.
Just keep working at it and your confessions should get better. Sooner or later you’ll start finding ways to avoid your near occasions of sin, if you really want to find them. Just keep looking, keep praying, keep repenting. Don’t ever settle into your sin and give up.
Our Lord loves you enough to want to see you free from whatever compulsion now afflicts you.
You think your penances are not enough to atone for your sins? That is quite true, but you don’t have the strength to pay the price, only He does, and He only asks for a token back from you. If you want to offer Him more than that in return for His mercy and forgiveness, you could offer Him a clean life going forward, to the best of your ability.
Just keep trying. To convert from sinner to saint is the work of a lifetime. I’ll pray for you this evening, please say a prayer for me. I have my own demons to struggle with.
P
PJM
Guest
God of the Old Testament Rath of god, and Jesus in the New Testament ARE THRE SAME IDENTICAL GOD.
In order to “be God”; God MUST be Good and God must demonistrate Mercy and Love.
Consider Yagweh who saved Hebew nation many times. Took them out of bondage in Egypt; fed thye manna and Quail for 40 years, and porvided water from a ROCK.
That dear friend is a God of MERCY and LOVE!
Consider Jesus, [same God], who became Incarnate man just like me and you [except for sin]. That is more restricking than take Bill gates and putting everything that made hin unique and special and then telling the worm to run APPLE.
Then this is not enough and Jesus endure BY HIS OWN CHOICE His Passion and Death for our sake; and even that is insufficient so now He chooses FREELY to remain in our midst as what appears to be inanimate bread and wine; now by God’s own Miracles; His REAL Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity… To make available to us the GRACE we need not to sin.
That my fruiend is the GREATEST Proof of Gods love for; and the greatest act of LOVE in the history of the Universe.
FEAR SIN! BUT DO NOT FEAR GOD WHO LOVES YOU MORE THAN WE CAN EVEN LOVE OURSELVES!
Love and prayers,
Pat
M
Mrs_Sally
Guest
The original link is to a homily by someone other than St. John Bosco, but that quotes his dream. If we want to debate Don Bosco’s dream we should read his actual words and not someone’s interpretation (especially not from the site linked).If John Bosco’s statement is true (and it just doesn’t sound like him), then no one is saved. No one.
Unless, of course, there is final contrition.
We also need to remember that his dreams were dreams. They were private revelations meant for a man whose life work was to work with street kids. They do not tell us anything definative about hell (as private revelation they can’t). Their purpose was to not to be instructional about what sins might send someone to hell, but inspirational to Don Bosco in the founding of his schools and order.
M
Mrs_Sally
Guest
Try this link.
S
Snugglebugmom
Guest
Turn to Mary. Our Lord gave us His Mother for our own when He was on the cross. She will love you and pray for you. Say the rosary, and ask Our Lady for help with staying on the right track. She will cover you with her mantle and she will not let you down.
God bless you!
J
Joseph_Kemp
Guest
THE OP WROTE: “How much credibility do people put into this revelation (John Bosco’s) as compared to others like Fatima?”
Steven Greydanus, who has written for Catholic Answers Magazine, “This Rock,” says:
“The correct dictum is not “If we want to go to Heaven, we listen to the saints.” The saints themselves are the first to tell us that the correct dictum is: “If we want to go to Heaven, we listen to the Church.””
decentfilms.com/mail/mailbag-19/199
The Catholic Church also directly teaches that we are most certainly NOT required to put our faith in such “visions.” Such things are referred to as “private revelations.” We not obligated to believe them at all. The Catechism says:
“67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.”
scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a1.htm
- For Roman Catholics, none.
Steven Greydanus, who has written for Catholic Answers Magazine, “This Rock,” says:
“The correct dictum is not “If we want to go to Heaven, we listen to the saints.” The saints themselves are the first to tell us that the correct dictum is: “If we want to go to Heaven, we listen to the Church.””
decentfilms.com/mail/mailbag-19/199
The Catholic Church also directly teaches that we are most certainly NOT required to put our faith in such “visions.” Such things are referred to as “private revelations.” We not obligated to believe them at all. The Catechism says:
“67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.”
scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a1.htm
- The visions of the Saints are firmly out. We are free to ignore them if they represent a stumbling block to our faith. This is a very wise and enlightened teaching indeed.
R
RogerDeCourcy
Guest
Problem 1: From the 60’s onwards, Jesus’ Mercy has been heavily emphasised and his Judgement, not at all.
Result: A generation of ‘Catholics’ who think there’s no chance they’ll go to Hell.
Problem 2: The constant mantra: ‘The Church teaches that believing in private revelations is not a requisite’.
Result: Pious warnings ignored.
If you look at the revelations in the last century, Heaven is practically shouting at humanity. Meanwhile, church-going Catholics are squaring contraception with their consciences.
Better to be rigourous and be wrong than easy-going and be wrong. The consequences could be terrible.
Result: A generation of ‘Catholics’ who think there’s no chance they’ll go to Hell.
Problem 2: The constant mantra: ‘The Church teaches that believing in private revelations is not a requisite’.
Result: Pious warnings ignored.
If you look at the revelations in the last century, Heaven is practically shouting at humanity. Meanwhile, church-going Catholics are squaring contraception with their consciences.
Better to be rigourous and be wrong than easy-going and be wrong. The consequences could be terrible.
S
Snugglebugmom
Guest
J
Joseph_Kemp
Guest
YOU WROTE: “Meanwhile, church-going Catholics are squaring contraception with their consciences.”
'The number of the elect is so small - so small - that were we to know how small it is, we should faint away with grief. - St. Louis Marie de Montfort
And the Church absolutely does not teach as doctrine that “few are saved, most go to Hell,” as many of the Saints claim. This is entirely false.
(CONTINUED BELOW)
- Having a gentle view of salvation does not automatically mean that one is using contraception. This is wrong.
- Actually, it is better to know the TRUTH than to be rigorous. This also is wrong.
- Something that I don’t like at all on this forum is how people often quote from the Saints about Hell (the so-called “pious warnings”). There are even LISTS of hell-quotes in this site, including many words from the saints about “how few are saved.” For example:
'The number of the elect is so small - so small - that were we to know how small it is, we should faint away with grief. - St. Louis Marie de Montfort
- And one of my personal favorites:
- Can’t get any stronger than that.
And the Church absolutely does not teach as doctrine that “few are saved, most go to Hell,” as many of the Saints claim. This is entirely false.
(CONTINUED BELOW)
J
Joseph_Kemp
Guest
(CONTINUED FROM ABOVE
The only reading material I would EVER recommend to people on the subject of Hell is a little book called Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved? written by Cardinal Urs von Balthasar, one of the greatest Catholic theologians who ever lived. amazon.com/Dare-Hope-Save…/dp/0898702070 In this book, von Balthasar takes direct issue with the “Hell-fire” texts from the Bible, AND from the Saints. He argues that the Bible“Hell-fire” passages in particular have been historically very misrepresented. The Bible also contains plenty of passages indicating that Christians should have a firm and constant hope that “all men” will achieve salvation:
“God…desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all.” (1st Tim. 2:4)
“[Christ is] the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.” (1st Tim. 4:10)
“Now shall the ruler of this world be cast out; and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.” (John 12:31)
“The grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men.” (Titus 2:11)
“God has consigned all men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all…” (Romans 11:32)
======================================== ======================================== =====
Cardinal von Balthasar points out in his book:
"We are allowed to hope that no human is eternally damned. This is a founded theological hope, it is not a certitude…Will it really be all men who allow themselves to be reconciled? No theology or prophecy can answer this question. But love hopes all things (I Cor. 13:7). It cannot do otherwise than to hope for the reconciliation of all men in Christ. Such unlimited hope is, from the Christian standpoint, not only permitted but commanded."
And for those who may be temped to doubt these words, it must be pointed out that von Balthasar was a MAJOR theologian, and a friend of Pope Benedict. His view on Hell is a legitimate Catholic view. Some people seek to question von Balthasar’s credentials as a theologian, but this is a mistake. He was one of the most eminent religious thinkers the Catholic Church ever produced. We are CERTAINLY acting within the theology of the Church if we take his words seriously.
(Incidentally, here is a link to another thread on Urs von Balthasar which was CLOSED by the Catholic Answers Staff. In it, someone questions von Balthasar’s theology and credentials, and is repudiated by the final poster. von Balthasar is MOST DEFINITELY worthy of serious attention by Roman Catholics. His thinking is not merely to be dismissed out of hand.)
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=137317
von Balthasar is most certainly not arguing for Universalism (the belief that all are saved, no matter what.) His position is, rather, based on the theological virtue of HOPE. Individual people may indeed all respond to the call of God, even in the last moments of life. Even the worst of people may turn to God in the end. HOPE allows us to sustain such a belief. Hell may indeed be empty.
von Balthasar’s Hell:
“I claim nothing more than this: that give us a right to have hope for all men, which simultaneously implies that I see no need to take the step from the threats to the positing of a hell occupied by our brothers and sisters, through which our hopes would come to naught. I do not wish to contradict anyone who, as a Christian, cannot be happy without denying the universality of hope to us so that he can be certain of his full hell: that is, after all, the view of a large number of important theologians, especially among the followers of Augustine. But, in return, I would like to request that one be permitted to hope that God’s redemptive work for his creation might succeed. Certainty cannot be attained, but hope can be justified. … If we take our faith seriously and respect the words of Scripture, we must resign ourselves to admitting such an ultimate possibility. We may not simply ignore such a threat; we may not easily dismiss it, neither for ourselves nor for any of our brothers and sisters in Christ.”
(CONTINUED BELOW)
The only reading material I would EVER recommend to people on the subject of Hell is a little book called Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved? written by Cardinal Urs von Balthasar, one of the greatest Catholic theologians who ever lived. amazon.com/Dare-Hope-Save…/dp/0898702070 In this book, von Balthasar takes direct issue with the “Hell-fire” texts from the Bible, AND from the Saints. He argues that the Bible“Hell-fire” passages in particular have been historically very misrepresented. The Bible also contains plenty of passages indicating that Christians should have a firm and constant hope that “all men” will achieve salvation:
“God…desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all.” (1st Tim. 2:4)
“[Christ is] the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.” (1st Tim. 4:10)
“Now shall the ruler of this world be cast out; and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.” (John 12:31)
“The grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men.” (Titus 2:11)
“God has consigned all men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all…” (Romans 11:32)
======================================== ======================================== =====
Cardinal von Balthasar points out in his book:
"We are allowed to hope that no human is eternally damned. This is a founded theological hope, it is not a certitude…Will it really be all men who allow themselves to be reconciled? No theology or prophecy can answer this question. But love hopes all things (I Cor. 13:7). It cannot do otherwise than to hope for the reconciliation of all men in Christ. Such unlimited hope is, from the Christian standpoint, not only permitted but commanded."
And for those who may be temped to doubt these words, it must be pointed out that von Balthasar was a MAJOR theologian, and a friend of Pope Benedict. His view on Hell is a legitimate Catholic view. Some people seek to question von Balthasar’s credentials as a theologian, but this is a mistake. He was one of the most eminent religious thinkers the Catholic Church ever produced. We are CERTAINLY acting within the theology of the Church if we take his words seriously.
(Incidentally, here is a link to another thread on Urs von Balthasar which was CLOSED by the Catholic Answers Staff. In it, someone questions von Balthasar’s theology and credentials, and is repudiated by the final poster. von Balthasar is MOST DEFINITELY worthy of serious attention by Roman Catholics. His thinking is not merely to be dismissed out of hand.)
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=137317
von Balthasar is most certainly not arguing for Universalism (the belief that all are saved, no matter what.) His position is, rather, based on the theological virtue of HOPE. Individual people may indeed all respond to the call of God, even in the last moments of life. Even the worst of people may turn to God in the end. HOPE allows us to sustain such a belief. Hell may indeed be empty.
von Balthasar’s Hell:
“I claim nothing more than this: that give us a right to have hope for all men, which simultaneously implies that I see no need to take the step from the threats to the positing of a hell occupied by our brothers and sisters, through which our hopes would come to naught. I do not wish to contradict anyone who, as a Christian, cannot be happy without denying the universality of hope to us so that he can be certain of his full hell: that is, after all, the view of a large number of important theologians, especially among the followers of Augustine. But, in return, I would like to request that one be permitted to hope that God’s redemptive work for his creation might succeed. Certainty cannot be attained, but hope can be justified. … If we take our faith seriously and respect the words of Scripture, we must resign ourselves to admitting such an ultimate possibility. We may not simply ignore such a threat; we may not easily dismiss it, neither for ourselves nor for any of our brothers and sisters in Christ.”
(CONTINUED BELOW)
J
Joseph_Kemp
Guest
(CONTINUED FROM ABOVE)
“Many are the grains of wheat, but compared with the chaff, the grains are few.” - St. Augustine
“Beyond a doubt the elect are few.” - St. Augustine
von Balthasar legitimately points out that Augustine’s own opinion – and it IS just a mere OPINION - that so few are saved “has cast an enormous shadow over the history of Western Theology.” von Balthasar indicates that such an opinion is worthy of sharp criticism. He writes: “" We might ask the great Augustine… whether he ever worried, after his conversion, about his eternal salvation." von Balthasar also charges that when writing and speaking of hell "the great man (Augustine), to whom posterity owes so much, did not do that within the limits laid down by the Gospel.”
von Balthasar argues that the Gospel and official Church doctrine leave infinitely more room for the hope that will be saved – far more than the doom-saying of many of the Saints. Indeed, as von Balthasar says, “Such unlimited hope is, from the Christian standpoint, not only permitted but COMMANDED." We are commanded by the very nature of HOPE ITSELF to believe that “all will be saved.” It would be a betrayal of hope to believe otherwise. It would be a betrayal of God’s love for us. A betrayal of the virtues themselves.
von Balthasar’s book, sadly, is one of the few volumes from a major theologian to deal with this unpleasant issue. von Balthasar himself makes the point that there ARE some other theologians writing as he does. But not nearly enough. Even those who agree with him often have trouble accepting the hope that that “all will be saved.” The traditional fear from the Saints is just too strong. What a pity that such a freeing understanding of the Gospels is so bound up in so many layers of terror.
von Balthasar’s book can be seen here: amazon.com/Dare-Hope-Save…/dp/0898702070
And the FULL TEXT of the book can be read online here:
books.google.ca/books/about/D…d=7ZfpLWkTtOgC
- von Balthasar objects directly to those theologians – most of all Calvin, the Scholastics, and Augustine – who just “assume” that most are damned, and that “few are saved.” In particular, von Balthasar singles out Augustine as one of the most offensive of those he calls “Infernalists” (those who believe in almost universal damnation). He mentions some of Augustine’s own remarks:
“Many are the grains of wheat, but compared with the chaff, the grains are few.” - St. Augustine
“Beyond a doubt the elect are few.” - St. Augustine
von Balthasar legitimately points out that Augustine’s own opinion – and it IS just a mere OPINION - that so few are saved “has cast an enormous shadow over the history of Western Theology.” von Balthasar indicates that such an opinion is worthy of sharp criticism. He writes: “" We might ask the great Augustine… whether he ever worried, after his conversion, about his eternal salvation." von Balthasar also charges that when writing and speaking of hell "the great man (Augustine), to whom posterity owes so much, did not do that within the limits laid down by the Gospel.”
von Balthasar argues that the Gospel and official Church doctrine leave infinitely more room for the hope that will be saved – far more than the doom-saying of many of the Saints. Indeed, as von Balthasar says, “Such unlimited hope is, from the Christian standpoint, not only permitted but COMMANDED." We are commanded by the very nature of HOPE ITSELF to believe that “all will be saved.” It would be a betrayal of hope to believe otherwise. It would be a betrayal of God’s love for us. A betrayal of the virtues themselves.
von Balthasar’s book, sadly, is one of the few volumes from a major theologian to deal with this unpleasant issue. von Balthasar himself makes the point that there ARE some other theologians writing as he does. But not nearly enough. Even those who agree with him often have trouble accepting the hope that that “all will be saved.” The traditional fear from the Saints is just too strong. What a pity that such a freeing understanding of the Gospels is so bound up in so many layers of terror.
von Balthasar’s book can be seen here: amazon.com/Dare-Hope-Save…/dp/0898702070
And the FULL TEXT of the book can be read online here:
books.google.ca/books/about/D…d=7ZfpLWkTtOgC
B
Bearontherun
Guest
Thank you Joseph Kemp. I found your posts very encouraging and informative.
P
PhilOSophia
Guest
So Cardinal Urs von Balthasar outweighs what was previously taught? What’s been quoted kind of proves the point. We were previously taught that Hell was a distinct possibility for any man. Now we’re not. Co-incidentally with that, we have ‘Catholics’ who believe that which was greviously sinful is now OK.
Point: Church doctrines haven’t changed. People only think they have. Intellectuals are finessing Jesus’s Mercy into a blanket pardon.
I would say that a pulpit-thumping priest is more use to his congregation than one who preaches on peace and love all … the … time.
I’m old enough to remember the 60’s. That’s where this ‘Jesus Is Love Therefore I Have A Lot Of Leeway’ idea go going. The miasma of revolution was thick in the air.
The Church got caught up in that madness and clergy thought being fashionable would help keep their flocks from straying.
Listen: The Church didn’t begin in the 1960’s. Or the 1940’s. Look at the lives of the saints and try to be like them. Aim high and even if you don’t reach the pinnacle, you’ll do well. Aim low and you might fail entirely.
Point: Church doctrines haven’t changed. People only think they have. Intellectuals are finessing Jesus’s Mercy into a blanket pardon.
I would say that a pulpit-thumping priest is more use to his congregation than one who preaches on peace and love all … the … time.
I’m old enough to remember the 60’s. That’s where this ‘Jesus Is Love Therefore I Have A Lot Of Leeway’ idea go going. The miasma of revolution was thick in the air.
The Church got caught up in that madness and clergy thought being fashionable would help keep their flocks from straying.
Listen: The Church didn’t begin in the 1960’s. Or the 1940’s. Look at the lives of the saints and try to be like them. Aim high and even if you don’t reach the pinnacle, you’ll do well. Aim low and you might fail entirely.
J
Joseph_Kemp
Guest
Since the Roman Catholic Church does not obligate us to listen to the Saints or to base our lives on their writings, I have trouble seeing how those who choose not to place their faith in the doom-laden belief that “few will be saved,” and “most will be damned” are “aiming low,” and might “fail entirely.”
I am most certainly not trying to talk anyone out of believing that “few are saved,” and that “virtually everyone goes to Hell.” If that’s what you want to believe, and if that’s what makes you happy, go right ahead and believe it. It’s a free country. Cardinal von Balthasar, in his little book “Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved?”, actually says this very thing:
“I do not wish to contradict anyone who, as a Christian, cannot be happy without denying the universality of hope to us so that he can be certain of his full hell: that is, after all, the view of a large number of important theologians, especially among the followers of Augustine.”
Again, here is a link to another thread on Urs von Balthasar which was CLOSED by the Catholic Answers Staff. In it, someone questions von Balthasar’s theology and credentials, and is repudiated by the final poster. von Balthasar is MOST DEFINITELY worthy of serious attention by Roman Catholics. His thinking is not merely to be dismissed out of hand.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=137317
Also, I must point out that von Balthasar’s hope that “all will be saved” is NOT the heresy of Universalism. Merely a firm faith in the virtue of Hope itself.
From the back of von Balthasar’s book “Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved?”:
“The Church’s teaching on Hell has been generally neglected by theologians, with the notable exception of Fr. von Balthasar. Here he responds in a clear and concise way, grounding his reflections clearly in Scripture. Revelation gives us neither the assurance that all will be saved, nor the certitude that any are condemned. What it does require of us is the “hope that all men be saved” rooted in a love of Christ that reaches even into the depths of Hell.”
Love and hope are not “unreserved” love and hope if we have accepted as certain that all are not saved. Von Balthasar writes:
“Whoever reckons with the possibility of even only one person’s being lost besides himself is hardly able to love unreservedly.”
Thus, there is ample room within Roman Catholic theology for the firm and established hope that “all will be saved.” It is not a vain or unfounded view. It is, as stated, based on the virtue of Hope itself.
Again, von Balthasar’s book on Hell can be seen here:
amazon.com/Dare-Hope-Save…/dp/0898702070
And the FULL TEXT of the book can be read online here:
books.google.ca/books/about/D…d=7ZfpLWkTtOgC
I am most certainly not trying to talk anyone out of believing that “few are saved,” and that “virtually everyone goes to Hell.” If that’s what you want to believe, and if that’s what makes you happy, go right ahead and believe it. It’s a free country. Cardinal von Balthasar, in his little book “Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved?”, actually says this very thing:
“I do not wish to contradict anyone who, as a Christian, cannot be happy without denying the universality of hope to us so that he can be certain of his full hell: that is, after all, the view of a large number of important theologians, especially among the followers of Augustine.”
- But then von Balthasar says:
- All von Balthasar is trying to say is that there IS an alternative to believing in all the doom-saying of the Saints. If anyone wishes to believe in this alternative - in the Christian virtue of HOPE that “all will be saved” - then that is our prerogative. The Church does not contradict this. I mention von Balthasar’s view here simply to balance out the scales. We aren’t OBLIGATED by the Church to believe that virtually everyone goes to Hell. This is false.
Again, here is a link to another thread on Urs von Balthasar which was CLOSED by the Catholic Answers Staff. In it, someone questions von Balthasar’s theology and credentials, and is repudiated by the final poster. von Balthasar is MOST DEFINITELY worthy of serious attention by Roman Catholics. His thinking is not merely to be dismissed out of hand.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=137317
Also, I must point out that von Balthasar’s hope that “all will be saved” is NOT the heresy of Universalism. Merely a firm faith in the virtue of Hope itself.
From the back of von Balthasar’s book “Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved?”:
“The Church’s teaching on Hell has been generally neglected by theologians, with the notable exception of Fr. von Balthasar. Here he responds in a clear and concise way, grounding his reflections clearly in Scripture. Revelation gives us neither the assurance that all will be saved, nor the certitude that any are condemned. What it does require of us is the “hope that all men be saved” rooted in a love of Christ that reaches even into the depths of Hell.”
Love and hope are not “unreserved” love and hope if we have accepted as certain that all are not saved. Von Balthasar writes:
“Whoever reckons with the possibility of even only one person’s being lost besides himself is hardly able to love unreservedly.”
Thus, there is ample room within Roman Catholic theology for the firm and established hope that “all will be saved.” It is not a vain or unfounded view. It is, as stated, based on the virtue of Hope itself.
Again, von Balthasar’s book on Hell can be seen here:
amazon.com/Dare-Hope-Save…/dp/0898702070
And the FULL TEXT of the book can be read online here:
books.google.ca/books/about/D…d=7ZfpLWkTtOgC
P
PhilOSophia
Guest
You’re kind of making the point.
Saying “The Church teaches that we are not obligated to believe what saints say” is simply stating that what they say is not doctrine. The same applies to private revelations. They are not doctrine.
Like that well-worn phrase “We don’t know if there’s anybody actually in Hell”, its import has been twisted. “You won’t be damned”, is the implication. But NO ONE has the authority to say that.
The implication being put forward is a modernist one. 60’s revolutionaries thought they were doing us all a favour by ‘freeing’ us from doom-and-gloom Catholicism. They have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. Now we’re so complacent we don’t bother with confession any more. **Who needs it if they are as good as saved already?
But the thing is, we’re not. Not by a long chalk. **
I will stick with traditional teachings. They have helped make many saints. AFAIK, there are no moves to canonise Cardinal Von Balthasar or any of the chief architects of the New Springtime.
Give it another 50 years. In the meantime …
Saying “The Church teaches that we are not obligated to believe what saints say” is simply stating that what they say is not doctrine. The same applies to private revelations. They are not doctrine.
Like that well-worn phrase “We don’t know if there’s anybody actually in Hell”, its import has been twisted. “You won’t be damned”, is the implication. But NO ONE has the authority to say that.
The implication being put forward is a modernist one. 60’s revolutionaries thought they were doing us all a favour by ‘freeing’ us from doom-and-gloom Catholicism. They have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. Now we’re so complacent we don’t bother with confession any more. **Who needs it if they are as good as saved already?
But the thing is, we’re not. Not by a long chalk. **
I will stick with traditional teachings. They have helped make many saints. AFAIK, there are no moves to canonise Cardinal Von Balthasar or any of the chief architects of the New Springtime.
Give it another 50 years. In the meantime …
T
TrueLight
Guest
Joseph,
Your posts make me sad because it is obvious how you are grappling with this.
You are willing to discard the teachings of the great Saints who helped shaped what the Church believes today, like St. Augustine, for one man who wrote a well-thought out, maybe brilliant book.
Yes, it feels better to believe that everyone goes to heaven. Why would a loving God send people to hell?
Our God is a just God and he cannot abide sin. That’s just the way it is. And it is fair.
Do you really believe that most people in this day and age who could care less about God, are all going to heaven?
Fact: Jesus IS coming back to judge the living and the dead.
The CCC, second edition (note, I’m not quoting the Trent catechism)
So, will you accept what the church teaches or what von Balthasar teaches?
Your posts make me sad because it is obvious how you are grappling with this.
You are willing to discard the teachings of the great Saints who helped shaped what the Church believes today, like St. Augustine, for one man who wrote a well-thought out, maybe brilliant book.
Yes, it feels better to believe that everyone goes to heaven. Why would a loving God send people to hell?
Our God is a just God and he cannot abide sin. That’s just the way it is. And it is fair.
Do you really believe that most people in this day and age who could care less about God, are all going to heaven?
Fact: Jesus IS coming back to judge the living and the dead.
The CCC, second edition (note, I’m not quoting the Trent catechism)
Notice, the Church affirms this biblical teaching of how those who enter the wider gate which leads to destruction are many. That verse is found in Matthew 7:13-14. Again, the church is affirming the interpretation. It’s not a personal interpretation.
So, will you accept what the church teaches or what von Balthasar teaches?
S
Sirach2
Guest
ACT OF HOPE
O my God, relying on thy infinite good and promises,
I hope to attain pardon of my sins,
the help of thy grace,
and life everlasting,
through the merits of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Redeemer. Amen
(Baltimore Catechism)
I was just reading last night from St. Faustina’s Diary, where Jesus said to her,
“… and let nothing drive you away from Me, not even your FALLS.” (Article 1823)
How we grieve His Sacred Heart when we fail to trust in His infinite Mercy. St. Faustina was given the mission to spread God’s mercy to the world. It would be a sin of presumption to snub our nose at God, relying on the ability to make a good confession at the end of one’s life. But it is also a sin of despair to distrust His mercy to sinners who repent.
Jesus specifically taught that we are to forgive 7x70, when the person repents and asks for forgiveness. Is He, being God, held to a lower standard than what He taught? There are many hidden souls who pray for the dying with the Divine Mercy Chaplet, and we can be assured those prayers are heard for the salvation of one who is at the moment of death. Of course, it is wrong to believe that ALL are saved, just as it is wrong to believe that ALL are damned.
The essence of our salvation is not that we tremble in fear of a God who holds the Hammer of Thor ready to pounce on the unwary soul. How many times in scripture we read that God desires to be loved for His Infinite goodness! Does anyone here believe that if we die without having loved Him, we would feel welcome and joyous in His presence? I’m believing such a soul would spend much time in purgatory, if in their lifetime they only kept the letter of the law out of intense fear, yet never learned to love.
For inspiration in this regard, it would helpful to read again the “Little Way” of St. Therese, who understood so well the heart and love of Our Father. The Church made her a “Doctor” because her teachings are solidly Catholic.
O my God, relying on thy infinite good and promises,
I hope to attain pardon of my sins,
the help of thy grace,
and life everlasting,
through the merits of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Redeemer. Amen
(Baltimore Catechism)
I was just reading last night from St. Faustina’s Diary, where Jesus said to her,
“… and let nothing drive you away from Me, not even your FALLS.” (Article 1823)
How we grieve His Sacred Heart when we fail to trust in His infinite Mercy. St. Faustina was given the mission to spread God’s mercy to the world. It would be a sin of presumption to snub our nose at God, relying on the ability to make a good confession at the end of one’s life. But it is also a sin of despair to distrust His mercy to sinners who repent.
Jesus specifically taught that we are to forgive 7x70, when the person repents and asks for forgiveness. Is He, being God, held to a lower standard than what He taught? There are many hidden souls who pray for the dying with the Divine Mercy Chaplet, and we can be assured those prayers are heard for the salvation of one who is at the moment of death. Of course, it is wrong to believe that ALL are saved, just as it is wrong to believe that ALL are damned.
The essence of our salvation is not that we tremble in fear of a God who holds the Hammer of Thor ready to pounce on the unwary soul. How many times in scripture we read that God desires to be loved for His Infinite goodness! Does anyone here believe that if we die without having loved Him, we would feel welcome and joyous in His presence? I’m believing such a soul would spend much time in purgatory, if in their lifetime they only kept the letter of the law out of intense fear, yet never learned to love.
For inspiration in this regard, it would helpful to read again the “Little Way” of St. Therese, who understood so well the heart and love of Our Father. The Church made her a “Doctor” because her teachings are solidly Catholic.
- Status