St John Capistrano - Anti-Semitic & inciting murder ?

[Prince_Hal]

I was listening to some Jewish history talks recently. In them it was suggested that St John of Capistrano was anti-semitic and incited the local population to kill Jews. I saw the following quote from the New World Encyclopedia which apparently takes its source for this quote from the Jewish Encyclopedia:

"…Unfortunately, John’s oratory was not only used to inspire religious faith, but also to incite mobs to conduct the mass murders of Jews in several cities in Germany.

In his discourses, John accused the Jews of killing Christian children and of desecrating the host. The Jews trembled at his approach, for his sermons seemed like invitations to riot. His admirers called him “the scourge of the Judeans.” The Bavarian dukes, Louis and Albert, influenced by Capistrano’s agitations, drove out the Jews from their duchies; in some places in Bavaria Jews were forced to wear the degrading Badge on their coats (1452). Under John’s influence, the reigning duke of Franconia, Bishop Godfrey of Würzburg, revoked the privileges he had granted to the Jews, and decreed their banishment.

Casimir IV Jagellon at first resisted Juan of Capistrano’s pressure to revoke protection of the Jews, but later relented.When Capistrano arrived at Breslau, a report was circulated that a certain wealthy Jew named Meyer had bought a host from a peasant and desecrated it. The local authorities used this as a pretext to arrest the representatives of the Jewish community and confiscate their houses and property for the benefit of the city. The investigation of the alleged blasphemy was conducted by Capistrano himself. Like many other inquisitors, he used torture to force “confessions” and more than 40 Jews were burned at the stake in Breslau June 2, 1453. Others, fearing torture, committed suicide. A rabbi by the name of Pinheas hanged himself. The remainder of the Jews were driven out of the city, while their children of tender age were kidnapped and baptized by force.

In Poland, John cooperated with the archbishop Zbigniev Olesniczki in pressuring King Casimir IV to abolish the privileges which had been granted to the Jews in 1447. The king at first refused to comply, but when the Polish army was defeated September 1454 in a war with the Teutonic Order assisted by the pope and the Polish Catholic Church, the clergy announced that God had punished the country on account of the king’s protection of the Jews. Casimir yielded and revoked the privileges which the latter had enjoyed. This led to persecutions of the Jews in many Polish towns."

How do I refute this, or did John incite murder ? If so, how could he be a Saint ? And if he is, how can the Catholic church be God’s church ?

Can anyone assist ?

God Bless,

Hal.

 

[1234]

You’re up against it. I don’t think that you can defend such things, assuming that they are true. You might do some more research yourself to see if the history you found is substantiated. Unfortunately, it has the ring of truth about it.

St. Vincent Ferrer also had the reputation of being anti-semitic, but I don’t know how much he actually did or preached. Jewish sites online about the ‘cryptojews’, the Jews of Spain expelled who came to the New World or who remained in Spain are the source for this.

 

[Prince_Hal]

Many thanks 1234. I am having trouble with this one and cannot see any reason for the persecution of the Jews - though it appears that St John Capistrano was instrumental.

Can anyone help ?

Hal.

 

[1234]

Many thanks 1234. I am having trouble with this one and cannot see any reason for the persecution of the Jews - though it appears that St John Capistrano was instrumental.

Can anyone help ?

Hal.

Another reference on St. john Capistrano:

from Antisemitism: a historical encyclopedia of prejudice and persecution, Volume 2 By Richard S. Levy

books.google.com/books?id=Tdn6FFZklkcC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=st.+john+capistrano+anti-semitism&source=bl&ots=qJ0uq9DHZN&sig=J_gHxpka32QRuNxKbOSOKQKtzcA&hl=en&ei=6n0tTPOgNYP_8Ab4uNz0Ag&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false

And, from the same two-volume book, on St. Vicente Ferrer:

books.google.com/books?id=Tdn6FFZklkcC&pg=PA226&lpg=PA226&dq=st.+vicente+ferrer+anti-semitism&source=bl&ots=qJ0uq9DMZG&sig=b7fQZleisSpmCz04QG3T4kSQ9Nc&hl=en&ei=sn4tTP2pAYX6lwf97cTABA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCkQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[1234]

St. John Capstrano was a Franciscan and St. Vicente was a Dominican.

Another anti-semite was St. Bernardino of Siena, an itinerant Franciscan preacher who preached against the Jews. In one incident, this resulted in a blood libel, an accusation that Jews had tortured a Christian child to collect its blood for sacrifices. The child, St. Simon , was canonized, as eventually was St. Bernardino. Seventeen Jews were tortured, ‘confessed’ and burned. The canonization of he child was removed at Vatican II. The samme link below includes a woodcut of the alleged killing of the child.

books.google.com/books?id=Tdn6FFZklkcC&pg=PA226&lpg=PA226&dq=st.+vicente+ferrer+anti-semitism&source=bl&ots=qJ0uq9DMZG&sig=b7fQZleisSpmCz04QG3T4kSQ9Nc&hl=en&ei=sn4tTP2pAYX6lwf97cTABA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCkQ6AEwBg#v=snippet&q=%20bernardino&f=false

 

[Prince_Hal]

Thanks again 1234.

There does seem to be a great deal of evidence to support the fact that people who later became canonized saints in the Catholic church actually caused the deaths of innocent people just because they were Jewish.

Now, I am not anti-Catholic. In fact I am desparately researching Catholicism as I move out of Mormonism. I love God and want to find His church. The Catholic church has appeared to me to be it. However, this anti-semitism is very, very worrying. How can John of Capistrano and these other people be worthy as intercessors ?

Please are there any answers for the “defense” ?

God bless,

Hal.

 

[JonNC]

I was listening to some Jewish history talks recently. In them it was suggested that St John of Capistrano was anti-semitic and incited the local population to kill Jews. I saw the following quote from the New World Encyclopedia which apparently takes its source for this quote from the Jewish Encyclopedia:

"…Unfortunately, John’s oratory was not only used to inspire religious faith, but also to incite mobs to conduct the mass murders of Jews in several cities in Germany.

In his discourses, John accused the Jews of killing Christian children and of desecrating the host. The Jews trembled at his approach, for his sermons seemed like invitations to riot. His admirers called him “the scourge of the Judeans.” The Bavarian dukes, Louis and Albert, influenced by Capistrano’s agitations, drove out the Jews from their duchies; in some places in Bavaria Jews were forced to wear the degrading Badge on their coats (1452). Under John’s influence, the reigning duke of Franconia, Bishop Godfrey of Würzburg, revoked the privileges he had granted to the Jews, and decreed their banishment.

Casimir IV Jagellon at first resisted Juan of Capistrano’s pressure to revoke protection of the Jews, but later relented.When Capistrano arrived at Breslau, a report was circulated that a certain wealthy Jew named Meyer had bought a host from a peasant and desecrated it. The local authorities used this as a pretext to arrest the representatives of the Jewish community and confiscate their houses and property for the benefit of the city. The investigation of the alleged blasphemy was conducted by Capistrano himself. Like many other inquisitors, he used torture to force “confessions” and more than 40 Jews were burned at the stake in Breslau June 2, 1453. Others, fearing torture, committed suicide. A rabbi by the name of Pinheas hanged himself. The remainder of the Jews were driven out of the city, while their children of tender age were kidnapped and baptized by force.

In Poland, John cooperated with the archbishop Zbigniev Olesniczki in pressuring King Casimir IV to abolish the privileges which had been granted to the Jews in 1447. The king at first refused to comply, but when the Polish army was defeated September 1454 in a war with the Teutonic Order assisted by the pope and the Polish Catholic Church, the clergy announced that God had punished the country on account of the king’s protection of the Jews. Casimir yielded and revoked the privileges which the latter had enjoyed. This led to persecutions of the Jews in many Polish towns."

How do I refute this, or did John incite murder ? If so, how could he be a Saint ? And if he is, how can the Catholic church be God’s church ?

Can anyone assist ?

God Bless,

Hal.

Hal, I don’t know if this is true or not, but I do have one thought. It seems we need to be careful regarding the term anti-semitic, in light of the history of the 20th century and Hitler.
Hitler’s hatred of the Jews was truly anti-semitic - a race based bigotry.
My understanding of European persecution of Jews in earlier times in Europe was more anti-judaism - a faith-based bigotry. This is not an excuse if it is true, but just a distinction that seems to me to be appropriate.

As for how can the Catholic Church be God’s Church, the very fact that the Church - any Church - has or had sinful human beings in it, who did horrible things, does not exclude the presence of the Holy Spirit in it. We can condemn the event without condemning the entire communion.

Jon

 

[Lycorth]

We also need to realize that Jews are not sinless angels in human form; the door swings both ways and in the history of Europe, Jews as well as Christians have done awful things to each other. Just because a Catholic saint made X accusation doesn’t make X accusation true - and just because a Jew was blamed for X doesn’t make X accusation immediately invalid and “anti-semitic”. Unless you know all the facts about St. John’s accusations, it’s wise not to jump to conclusions just to feel “good” about it.

“Anti-semite” is a powerful buzzword, like “witch” was in early Puritan colonies. As much as the latter was often slung around falsely, so the former is today.

 

[1234]

Regarding JonNC’s remarks, I don’t think that it mattered to the Jews whether it was race-based or faith-based bigotry that was burning them alive.

No one is blaming an “entire communion” for the sins of a relative few. The question remains for Prince Hal as to whether he wants to join a church which believes that* all* of its saints, including the one he read about, are worthy of veneration. The concept of sainthood is, I believe, different in the Mormon church.

Regarding Lycorth’s remarks, it is hard to believe that the Jews were guilty of* any* actions that would deserve their being burned alive. But the accusation of Jews’ desecrating the host is especially ludicrous, as Jews don’t believe in a host. To them, the consecrated wafers are–simply wafers. To them, this would be like trampling a saltine. These accusations were naked excuses to lash out against a “safe” persecuted minority, the Jews.
Prince Hal is moving away from one authoritarian church and examining another. He will have to decide what the nature of his belief is and where he is going to find it best expressed. This may not be an easy decision.

 

[Petergee]

I don’t know the details of the saint’s life, but I can make some clarifying points:

1. The primary aim of the Catholic Church, in obedience to God’s command, is to convert EVERY living soul to Catholicism. NOT excepting the Jews. Many good and holy Catholics, from the Apostles to the present day, have dedicated their time to trying to persuade people that the doctrines of post-Christian Judaism, although right and worthy in many ways, are wrong insofar as they contradict the doctrines of the Catholic Church. There is absolutely nothing wrong or sinister about this “anti-Judaism”. Some have mischievously and falsely portrayed this as “anti-semitism”. In fact it’s the other way around. Catholics would be anti-semitic if they targeted every non-Catholic for conversion **except **the Jews (i.e. basically telling the Jews that they are irredeemable, are not open to God’s merciful grace and are inevitably going to Hell).
2. The story does NOT have “the ring of truth about it”. To take one point,

Like many other inquisitors, he used torture to force “confessions” and more than 40 Jews were burned at the stake

Secular historians agree that the church inquisitions were the fairest and most humane court systems the world had seen up until that time, and that they used torture far more sparingly than any other court of the time, and in fact later became the first court system in the world to explicitly ban torture. It is inconceivable that a church inquisition would have concluded 40 men should be executed for the crime of one man. Also there was very little Church inquisition activity in Germany. And in any case, the only crime which Church inquisitions investigated was heresy. i.e. a Catholic publicly promoting a false doctrine. The inquisitions had absolutely no jurisdiction over Jews, and they had no jurisdiction to investigate or prosecute alleged theft or sacrilege, even if it were committed by a Catholic.

It’s certainly true that secular authorities executed thousands of people for heresy in the Middle Ages. In fact this is prec isely why the Church Inquisitions were set up - to SAVE the lives of innocent people whom the secular authorities had falsely accused of heresy, by requiring that the heresy be proven before a panel of expert theologians and the accused person, if guilty, be given every chance to correct himself, instead of the State summarily executing people based on false hearsay or score-settling.

their children of tender age were kidnapped and baptized by force.

The Church has always taught that baptism by force is INVALID.

1. Declaring somebody a Saint does not mean declaring that he never sinned. It certainly does not mean that nobody else ever sinned because they misunderstood the implications of his preaching.

 

[Prince_Hal]

Regarding JonNC’s remarks, I don’t think that it mattered to the Jews whether it was race-based or faith-based bigotry that was burning them alive.

No one is blaming an “entire communion” for the sins of a relative few. The question remains for Prince Hal as to whether he wants to join a church which believes that* all* of its saints, including the one he read about, are worthy of veneration. The concept of sainthood is, I believe, different in the Mormon church.

Regarding Lycorth’s remarks, it is hard to believe that the Jews were guilty of* any* actions that would deserve their being burned alive. But the accusation of Jews’ desecrating the host is especially ludicrous, as Jews don’t believe in a host. To them, the consecrated wafers are–simply wafers. To them, this would be like trampling a saltine. These accusations were naked excuses to lash out against a “safe” persecuted minority, the Jews.

Prince Hal is moving away from one authoritarian church and examining another. He will have to decide what the nature of his belief is and where he is going to find it best expressed.  This may not be an easy decision.

Thank you 1234. That exactly sums up my concerns.

I will take on board an earlier comment regarding the use of the phrase “anti-semitic” that perhaps it is incorrect to use. And certainly I accept that one bad apple does not make the whole tree bad, or even some bad actions or sins by a person makes the person worthy of hell. Certainly there are none of us who are sinless.

So, John of Capistrano - if he did as the quote said - does not make the Church wrong. Nor does it take John himself outside of the arms of salvation - again if it is true.

But, there appears to be so many references that the Jews were persecuted by Christians, and that some of them were Catholic, and some of those Catholics were later canonized. Just trying to get my head around it. It puts into question the validity of Saints and the efficacy of using them, and perhaps even the body that canonizes them.

1234’s remark about authoritarian churches is very perceptive. “Follow the prophet, follow the prophet, he knows the way” is an LDS childrens song. He says it, then you do it, even if it contradicts previous prophets or even the Bible. And so it is difficult for me to now think that something like John of Capistrano, if true doesn’t invalidate the whole Church. Of course it doesn’t.

Thanks for everyone’s comments. This is a difficult one.

God Bless,

Hal.

 

[Shin]

Pardon me, but the ‘Jewish Encyclopedia’ is neither a good nor reliable source about Christianity or Christian history.

 

[1234]

The forced conversion and baptism of the Jews was commonplace in Spain during the Inquisition. Many were unconvinced by the Jewish conversions and burnt them anyway.

As late as the 19th century, an irregular but apparently valid baptism could serve as the excuse for child abduction, as in the notorious Mortara case. A 14 year old Catholic servant in a Jewish home baptized a sick Jewish child, fearing that he would go to hell if he died unbaptized. THe Mortara family lived in the Papal States. The child recovered, but, because he was now considered a Christian in a Jewish home, was abducted and raised as a ward of the pope, then Pius IX. The case raised an international furor. The child was never returned to his family and eventually became a priest.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgardo_Mortara

 

[Shin]

Saint John of Capistrano and Saint Vincent Ferrer both have lives surrounded by miracles testified to by witnesses from all over the world. They raised the dead, accurately, prophecized the future, healed the sick, explained the deep mysteries of the scriptures… and led souls to salvation… and lived such humble and poor lives while they did all these works of God.
story of Saint John’s life can be read here.**true **

Saint John prophecized correctly who would be the next Pope, to that very future Pope himself. . . Knowledge of the future, is only given by God Himself to His prophets. Sometimes people may guess correctly – but prophetic knowledge of who will be the next Pope? This is of God.

And he did this not only once… But twice.

‘Now you are made Bishop of Bologna. I congratulate you. But you will go farther; you will be a Cardinal, and afterwards, Pope. . . You are Thomas, indeed, for Thomas was incredulous.’

St. John of Capistrano (to Thomas Parentucelli, later Pope Nicholas V)

Many calumnies and threads of violence were leveled against St. John of Capistrano to try to stop his missions.

‘When I entered Moravia, I worked with all my might against the lying heresies of the Bohemians, as, indeed, I was in duty bound to do. Undeterred by threats or fear of violence, I spoke in public and to the best of my ability to confute that impious doctrine of theirs that it was necessary for salvation to communicate under both kinds. And so it came to pass that more than 4000 barons, nobles, and priests renounced the Hussite heresy in my hands, besides many other persons who live under the rule of said barons.’

St. John of Capistrano

But conversions flowed from his words – moved by the Holy Spirit, people changed their lives.

‘Jesus also said: “You are the light of the world.” Now a light does not illumine itself, but instead it diffuses its rays and shines all around upon everything that comes into its view. So it must be with the glowing lives of upright and holy clerics. By the brightness of their holiness they must bring light and serenity to all who gaze upon them. They have been placed here to care for others. Their own lives should be an example to others, showing how they must live in the house of the Lord.’

St. John of Capistrano

There have been many Jewish underground movements against the Church – because of religious hatred in their communities against Christians. There appears to be a myth of one sided persecution purported today, rather than the reality which is that as aliens in Christian states, Jews could and did work against these states and harbor superstitious antipathy towards the Christian religion that showed itself forth in acts of sacrilege and hatred. It is an almost normal action for any minority in a community to hate the majority, and this hate causes many evils. When heresy flourished in one community or another, the heretics would often go to the houses of the Jews to avoid the authorities and be sheltered there. Thirty pieces of silver?

The inquisition applied to Catholics – or those who adopted Catholicism as a fascade, and who went to mass, and said public prayers, all actually in deceit for their own personal advantage, while practicing another religion covertly. The inquisition was part of the Holy Office and an official organ of the Catholic Church and there are good books and articles explaining its true place in history, where it has little shame, and did much good. Many lies are told about its history – propaganda formed by Protestant nations, and other individuals with the goal of harming the Church.

These saints with their asceticism and love of God made them view Heaven more important than the Earth, and to love God more than man. So too Bl. Pope Pius IX, who cared more for the eternal welfare of a child and upholding the laws of the land than for human respect – his actions in this time and place seem unacceptable, but in Heaven, they saved a soul which is worth more than all the world, and were within his authority on earth.

 

[Prince_Hal]

Thanks Shin for the quotes and the link. I will be sure to read them to see if this balances or refutes the other data.

 

[Petergee]

The forced conversion and baptism of the Jews was commonplace in Spain during the Inquisition. Many were unconvinced by the Jewish conversions and burnt them anyway.

That is unhistorical nonsense. See my earlier post.

As late as the 19th century, an irregular but apparently valid baptism could serve as the excuse for child abduction, as in the notorious Mortara case. A 14 year old Catholic servant in a Jewish home baptized a sick Jewish child, fearing that he would go to hell if he died unbaptized. THe Mortara family lived in the Papal States. The child recovered, but, because he was now considered a Christian in a Jewish home, was abducted and raised as a ward of the pope, then Pius IX. The case raised an international furor. The child was never returned to his family and eventually became a priest.

The furore which made the incident supposedly “notorious” was orchestrated by anti-Catholic bigots who controlled nearly all the Western world’s newspapers (then the only mass media and incredibly powerful and influential, and which made no pretense of being impartial). With extreme hypocrisy because similar incidents were commonplace throughout the world. e.g. as late as the 20th century, Catholic children were illegally kidnapped off the streets of Boston and New York and sent to Protestant couples in other parts of the US in order to “save their souls”. Mortara was not “abducted” but was legally taken into custody by government officials.

 

[1234]

Many thanks 1234. I am having trouble with this one and cannot see any reason for the persecution of the Jews - though it appears that St John Capistrano was instrumental.

Can anyone help ?

Hal.

…getting back to the OP and original posts, I wonder if PH has looked at dissident Mormon groups? There are a number of these , including one in my medium-sized city. It has distanced itself from literal Mormonism and is Christian and very oriented towards peace. It is known as a ‘community’ church. There is also the ‘reorganized’ church of LDS. I know a Mennonite who is a very Christian individual–just got back from Africa–and the Presbyterians do a lot of good work around here.

In leaving strict Mormonism for Roman Catholicism, you are choosing between a fire and a very hot frying plan in terms of authority. You are also looking at a church with a lot to answer for, and a number of ongoing scandals which are not going to be resolved for years. The priest pedophile scandal is going to be the new Inquisition for the RCC and its effects will linger for centuries. You sound like an intelligent, well-read, responsible individual with a strong sense of conscience. Is this what you want?

You have many alternatives, in addition to the dissident LDS groups. Protestants also have a few things to answer for in their history, but usually a lot less than the Catholics, and they acknowledge their failings openly and honestly. If you confront any Protestant group with a list of its background and failings, you will get answers very different from those put forth on this forum, which are insulting to any intelligence, especially yours.

 

[Shin]

E. Michael Jones book, ‘The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit’ pp 195-200 describes some of the history of the Hussite heresy and the Jewish involvement in the warfare they began, as well as setting in their proper context religious restriction laws of past times, it has some of the details of the calumnies against St. John Capistrano and more balanced historians views on the matter.

I haven’t read the entire book but it’s quite interesting and unusual in its perspective.

Everything has to be views properly in the context of the times… where Christianity was the state religion… which I might add has far more advantages than any problems resulting from, it is God’s will that all governments acknowledge Him, rather than deny Him – and to do the latter results in many evils.

Once religious law comes into sway, and for example, sacrilege becomes a crime… rather than something people can casually get away with, naturally those who commit the crime will protest. But then in these times, it’s becoming a crime to teach your own children Christianity, that sin exists, and so forth. Anti-Catholicism is one of the most acceptable prejudices today.

The Catholic Church is a hospital for sinners… but it is the Church founded by Christ Himself… there is no other, suffering or triumphant it is the place God has made for us… and its shining lights do shine brighter than any others… The saints are quite beautiful. As long as we do not get our prejudices of our times involved… they will reach us and show us a timeless view that is truly holy.

 

[JonNC]

=1234;6805534]Regarding JonNC’s remarks, I don’t think that it mattered to the Jews whether it was race-based or faith-based bigotry that was burning them alive.

I didn’t say it did. My point was making a distinction, which is often not made when some try to link Luther’s anti-judaism to Hitler’s anti-semitism. It just seemerd fair to make the same distinction for others.

No one is blaming an “entire communion” for the sins of a relative few. The question remains for Prince Hal as to whether he wants to join a church which believes that* all* of its saints, including the one he read about, are worthy of veneration. The concept of sainthood is, I believe, different in the Mormon church.

That’s fine.

Jon

 

[Kaninchen]

And if he is, how can the Catholic church be God’s church ?

Can anyone assist ?

I’ve been here quite a long time now and, being from Bavarian-Jewish and Italian-Jewish background, I grew up with the a lot of ‘history’ from the perspective of Jews living in Catholic Europe.

From time to time, threads emerge with comments that make me seethe but I’ve learned to recognize that one really needs to judge Catholics on ‘where they and their Church are now’ and not from examples from other times or from individual internet comments from members of the Church.

Perhaps that’s what you need to do?