St. John Neumann - Inspired to Priesthood by Native Americans :)

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Interestingly enough I learned today that St. John Neumann, 5th Bishop of Philadelphia (currently enjoying the US’s first Aboriginal Archbishop I think) was inspired to the priesthood in the United States when he read about a former bishop’s work with Native Americans.

The writings of Bishop Baraga (from Slovenia) inspired the young John Neumann to the priesthood, and hence that speaks to the original inspiration for talking about Aboriginal Catholicism in Traditional Catholicism because I am curious about what the “pre-Vatican” church felt about Aboriginal people.

youtu.be/wYrmH0E3EF8

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster
(Aboriginal Concept of Transformation).

Is not “transformation” a calling to life long conversion as we become more like our source of existence? And our source is … ?
 
Interestingly enough I learned today that St. John Neumann, 5th Bishop of Philadelphia (currently enjoying the US’s first Aboriginal Archbishop I think) was inspired to the priesthood in the United States when he read about a former bishop’s work with Native Americans.

The writings of Bishop Baraga (from Slovenia) inspired the young John Neumann to the priesthood, and hence that speaks to the original inspiration for talking about Aboriginal Catholicism in Traditional Catholicism because I am curious about what the “pre-Vatican” church felt about Aboriginal people.

youtu.be/wYrmH0E3EF8

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster
(Aboriginal Concept of Transformation).

Is not “transformation” a calling to life long conversion as we become more like our source of existence? And our source is … ?
Saint John Neumann was the 4th Bishop of Philadelphia 👍
 
What is all this “aboriginal” talk? I hope surely you’re not talking about US NATIVE AMERICANS! Because that would be just offensive. You can either call US by our tribe, I’m Choctaw, or call US collectively Native Americans. I don’t care who used the word before you, its a stupid word to us, and I’m offended. Only a real assclown would call Native American people Aboriginal, as if we were just some pre-existing entity, as if this was not our land, as if we were just meant to be conquered. Because that’s what that word means to us. You find another Native American who embraces that word, and I’ll tell you he has lost his spirit. And for that, he is no longer Tribal, no longer one of us.
 
What is all this “aboriginal” talk? I hope surely you’re not talking about US NATIVE AMERICANS! Because that would be just offensive. You can either call US by our tribe, I’m Choctaw, or call US collectively Native Americans. I don’t care who used the word before you, its a stupid word to us, and I’m offended. Only a real assclown would call Native American people Aboriginal, as if we were just some pre-existing entity, as if this was not our land, as if we were just meant to be conquered. Because that’s what that word means to us. You find another Native American who embraces that word, and I’ll tell you he has lost his spirit. And for that, he is no longer Tribal, no longer one of us.
Calm down, the OP was Canadian; there, as in Australia, the native peoples are referred to as aboriginals. He probably did not know that anybody considered it pejorative south of 49N.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA
 
What is all this “aboriginal” talk? I hope surely you’re not talking about US NATIVE AMERICANS! Because that would be just offensive. You can either call US by our tribe, I’m Choctaw, or call US collectively Native Americans. I don’t care who used the word before you, its a stupid word to us, and I’m offended. Only a real assclown would call Native American people Aboriginal, as if we were just some pre-existing entity, as if this was not our land, as if we were just meant to be conquered. Because that’s what that word means to us. You find another Native American who embraces that word, and I’ll tell you he has lost his spirit. And for that, he is no longer Tribal, no longer one of us.
As a matter of fact, the OP is a Native American, or at least he says that he is. Interesting that you two have such disagreement on the term aboriginal.
 
I caught the show on St. John Neumann on EWTN last night. I thought it would be nice to visit the churchs in Philadelphia, theres a few which he is responsible for. St Peters in the main church erected I believe after his death, started while he was alive however. He built a few their while he was alive also. St Peters looks impressive, on the contrary he wasn’t into building massive churchs, but smaller ones to cater to the different immigrant ethnic populations. Interesting life, short also.

Right 4th Bishop.
 
What is all this “aboriginal” talk? I hope surely you’re not talking about US NATIVE AMERICANS! Because that would be just offensive. You can either call US by our tribe, I’m Choctaw, or call US collectively Native Americans. I don’t care who used the word before you, its a stupid word to us, and I’m offended. Only a real assclown would call Native American people Aboriginal, as if we were just some pre-existing entity, as if this was not our land, as if we were just meant to be conquered. Because that’s what that word means to us. You find another Native American who embraces that word, and I’ll tell you he has lost his spirit. And for that, he is no longer Tribal, no longer one of us.
You might want to do a search under the OPs name. All his threads are about Native Americans. And he is deeply interested about making Catholicism relevant to Native Americans.
 
What is all this “aboriginal” talk? I hope surely you’re not talking about US NATIVE AMERICANS! Because that would be just offensive. You can either call US by our tribe, I’m Choctaw, or call US collectively Native Americans. I don’t care who used the word before you, its a stupid word to us, and I’m offended. Only a real assclown would call Native American people Aboriginal, as if we were just some pre-existing entity, as if this was not our land, as if we were just meant to be conquered. Because that’s what that word means to us. You find another Native American who embraces that word, and I’ll tell you he has lost his spirit. And for that, he is no longer Tribal, no longer one of us.
DasErlibnis…sorry to offend you. In Canada we refer to ourselves as Aboriginal Canadian… I am a status Indian in Canada and my reserve is Kitigan-zibi Anishinabeg, so I understand how you would be offended if someone used the wrong term …but be assured I was only using a word that is common with Canadian indigenous people…

I lived in Texas for a while and I while we traveled, I met a few Pueblo, Apache, Navajo and it was fascinating. I was at a bar and I met this Apache guy and once he found out I was Canadian native, we talked about each others nation as if Canada or the United States didn’t exist…that “inter-generational” memory is fascinating, so you are quite right on that one.

Cheerz

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster
 
Calm down, the OP was Canadian; there, as in Australia, the native peoples are referred to as aboriginals. He probably did not know that anybody considered it pejorative south of 49N.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA
Yeah, thanks Geddie, I made a responded to him directly, apologized for my use of Aboriginal and explained to him what we refer ourselves as here in Canada…it’s all good…

Cheerz and thanks

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster
 
As a matter of fact, the OP is a Native American, or at least he says that he is. Interesting that you two have such disagreement on the term aboriginal.
Who is OP? I am Trickster “hear me roar” 🙂

Most Native Americans I know understand that this is their term “Native American” and that north of the border we refer to ourselves as First Nations or Aboriginal. There is no disagreement…I think a misunderstanding…

Cheerz

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster
 
I caught the show on St. John Neumann on EWTN last night. I thought it would be nice to visit the churchs in Philadelphia, theres a few which he is responsible for. St Peters in the main church erected I believe after his death, started while he was alive however. He built a few their while he was alive also. St Peters looks impressive, on the contrary he wasn’t into building massive churchs, but smaller ones to cater to the different immigrant ethnic populations. Interesting life, short also.

Right 4th Bishop.
Yes, I read that he built a lot of churches in Philidelphia…isn’t that unusual? I thought that in the old days, each town had a cathedral that people went to…and only after Vatican II they built more churches in neighbourhoods…so I am intrigued by this fact.

Bruce
 
You might want to do a search under the OPs name. All his threads are about Native Americans. And he is deeply interested about making Catholicism relevant to Native Americans.
Thank you Truelight for letting him know what I am about…I appreciate that…I have to catch up with my other threads…as I am far behind…I have not had a computer …but next week I should have a permanent one, so I will be able to follow more consistently…sometimes though after a long day…responding to some of the threads require too much brains…and I don’t have any sometimes at the end of the day…do you feel that way sometimes? 🙂

Cheerz

Bruce
 
We have to be careful with ethnic and racial terminology. They don’t always match those of other cultures. Allow me to share some examples. As I have said many times, I studied in Europe, have lived in many parts of the USA and served as a missionary in South America.

In South America the term for the native people is Indigenous People. Terms such as Indian and Native Americans are considered incorrect. They are not from India. Most of the native people of the Americas came from the Far East, not the Sub-Continent, which is where India is located. They also consider Native American incorrect. To them, American the entire hemisphere from Greenland to the Falkland Islands. In their mind, most people who live in the Americas are native by virtue of being born in the Americas.

They don’t speak as Canadians and Americans do. “I’m Italian, German, Irish, etc.” They too are decendants of immigrants, but they do not hang on to the European roots. In their mind, there are only two kinds of people in this hemisphere, Americans and other. They refer to the people of the United States as Estadounidense (Es-ta-doe-oo-knee-den-say), which literally translated means United Statan. They do not refer to the USA as America, but as USA or simply US (Estados Unidos).

I found something similar while in school in Italy. Well educated Italians have a disdain for Americans and Canadians who insist that they are Italian. They look at them as wannabes. They teach their students that such people have no sense of identity or culture of their own. I found it interesting, because even the food is different. Italians and Italian Americans do not cook the same way. In fact, I hated their sauce and their pizza. 😃 Most Italian Americans can’t speak Italian.

Language is a very strong cultural bond. Once you lose it, your link is broken. For this reason the Hispanics in the USA, both the immigrants and those who have been here for many generations insist on preserving the Spanish language. It’s a link to the culture of origin. Anthropology has proven that language does influence behavior, worldview and customs.

We have the same issues in the USA. I’m from VA. We always referred to ourselves as Southerners. A northerner is a Yankee. When I was sent to FL for a while. When people found out that I was from VA, they kept referring to me as a Northerner, which I found very annoying. However, they couldn’t understand why that would be annoying. One day I asked someone, “Did you know that Lee and Jackson were on the same side?”, because they have Jacksonville, FL. The person stopped, thought about it and then smiled.

My experience has been that Americans and Canadians are not well educated in geography and social studies. As a result, we tend to make blunders when using ethnic and racial terminology. Let’s face it. We classify Hispanics as a race rather than a language group. The truth is that most Hispanics are a mix of Indigenous and Spanish blood. Others are Black and Spanish. Then you have another third that is Spanish, German, Italian and French. One third of the southern cone of South America is Italian and German. These were people who came over right after WW II.

Having a father who was a diplomat I learned that the best way to avoid a conflict is to state up front where you’re coming from. When I use the ethnic and racial terms as we use them in the USA, such as Native American or Hispanic American, I always add that I’m from the USA. People are more forgiving. Even though they do not understand how we classify people or understand and disagree, they understand that this is our system.

I found this out very quickly while living in South America. I used the term Hispanic American. Someone quickly asked me if I was speaking about American Hispanics or Hispanic Americans. In their countries, American Hispanics are Hispanics that are citizens of the USA. Hispanic American is any Spanish speaking person of any country in the Americas.

Didn’t mean to derail the thread, but to shed some light as to what confuses people and how some people react negatively, because they don’t understand how you’re using language or labels. Therefore, they tend to interpret them from according to their experience. If you use the word negro in the USA, it has a very different meaning than negro in South America. In South America, it’s a term of endearment and a racial group. Olive skin children are called negro and they love it. It shows that people notice them. Experience colors our understanding of words.

When you’re speaking to a group that of a culture not your own, it is wise to say that you’re [insert nationality]. This way people know that you’re not using language the same way.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Not to get off thread but the first time I heard the term aboriginal (other than Australia) was recently when I heard about Kateri Tekakwitha:
canada.com/life/miracle+Catholic+mystic+become+Canada+first+aboriginal+saint/5883076/story.html
I found something similar while in school in Italy. Well educated Italians have a disdain for Americans and Canadians who insist that they are Italian. They look at them as wannabes. They teach their students that such people have no sense of identity or culture of their own. I found it interesting, because even the food is different. Italians and Italian Americans do not cook the same way. In fact, I hated their sauce and their pizza. Most Italian Americans can’t speak Italian.
And then you have NY pizza…and the rest of the country. 😉 😃
 
We have to be careful with ethnic and racial terminology. They don’t always match those of other cultures. Allow me to share some examples. As I have said many times, I studied in Europe, have lived in many parts of the USA and served as a missionary in South America.

In South America the term for the native people is Indigenous People. Terms such as Indian and Native Americans are considered incorrect. They are not from India. Most of the native people of the Americas came from the Far East, not the Sub-Continent, which is where India is located. They also consider Native American incorrect. To them, American the entire hemisphere from Greenland to the Falkland Islands. In their mind, most people who live in the Americas are native by virtue of being born in the Americas.

They don’t speak as Canadians and Americans do. “I’m Italian, German, Irish, etc.” They too are decendants of immigrants, but they do not hang on to the European roots. In their mind, there are only two kinds of people in this hemisphere, Americans and other. They refer to the people of the United States as Estadounidense (Es-ta-doe-oo-knee-den-say), which literally translated means United Statan. They do not refer to the USA as America, but as USA or simply US (Estados Unidos).

I found something similar while in school in Italy. Well educated Italians have a disdain for Americans and Canadians who insist that they are Italian. They look at them as wannabes. They teach their students that such people have no sense of identity or culture of their own. I found it interesting, because even the food is different. Italians and Italian Americans do not cook the same way. In fact, I hated their sauce and their pizza. 😃 Most Italian Americans can’t speak Italian.

Language is a very strong cultural bond. Once you lose it, your link is broken. For this reason the Hispanics in the USA, both the immigrants and those who have been here for many generations insist on preserving the Spanish language. It’s a link to the culture of origin. Anthropology has proven that language does influence behavior, worldview and customs.

We have the same issues in the USA. I’m from VA. We always referred to ourselves as Southerners. A northerner is a Yankee. When I was sent to FL for a while. When people found out that I was from VA, they kept referring to me as a Northerner, which I found very annoying. However, they couldn’t understand why that would be annoying. One day I asked someone, “Did you know that Lee and Jackson were on the same side?”, because they have Jacksonville, FL. The person stopped, thought about it and then smiled.

My experience has been that Americans and Canadians are not well educated in geography and social studies. As a result, we tend to make blunders when using ethnic and racial terminology. Let’s face it. We classify Hispanics as a race rather than a language group. The truth is that most Hispanics are a mix of Indigenous and Spanish blood. Others are Black and Spanish. Then you have another third that is Spanish, German, Italian and French. One third of the southern cone of South America is Italian and German. These were people who came over right after WW II.

Having a father who was a diplomat I learned that the best way to avoid a conflict is to state up front where you’re coming from. When I use the ethnic and racial terms as we use them in the USA, such as Native American or Hispanic American, I always add that I’m from the USA. People are more forgiving. Even though they do not understand how we classify people or understand and disagree, they understand that this is our system.

I found this out very quickly while living in South America. I used the term Hispanic American. Someone quickly asked me if I was speaking about American Hispanics or Hispanic Americans. In their countries, American Hispanics are Hispanics that are citizens of the USA. Hispanic American is any Spanish speaking person of any country in the Americas.

Didn’t mean to derail the thread, but to shed some light as to what confuses people and how some people react negatively, because they don’t understand how you’re using language or labels. Therefore, they tend to interpret them from according to their experience. If you use the word negro in the USA, it has a very different meaning than negro in South America. In South America, it’s a term of endearment and a racial group. Olive skin children are called negro and they love it. It shows that people notice them. Experience colors our understanding of words.

When you’re speaking to a group that of a culture not your own, it is wise to say that you’re [insert nationality]. This way people know that you’re not using language the same way.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Brother JReduction…I consider you an elder - which you will know is a compliment from an Aboriginal person…- and you can derail any thread you feel the Spirit leads you! I always enjoy your posting as they teach me a lot…like your posting that helped me clarify more and more what I was trying to say about liberation and liberationist theological frameworks…etc…you are truly a blessing…I know that you are busy and have your challenges so I don’t want to bother you…but I’d love to continue hearing from you as I said you are truly an elder and a teacher…God bless

Bruce Ferguson
The Trickster Guy 🙂
 
Not to get off thread but the first time I heard the term aboriginal (other than Australia) was recently when I heard about Kateri Tekakwitha:
canada.com/life/miracle+Catholic+mystic+become+Canada+first+aboriginal+saint/5883076/story.html

And then you have NY pizza…and the rest of the country. 😉 😃
Yes, you are right CatholicFireman. I am Algonquin and we always argue with the Iroquois on ownership of Blessed Kateri Tekakwitha…Odile 53 will disagree with me when I claim Kateria as one of our own…but really she is an Iroquois with one parent from our tribal group…and yes we use the word Aboriginal in Canada…I apologized that I was misunderstood, so I think it is “all good” now…

Cheerz and Blessings

Bruce Ferguson
 
Yes, you are right CatholicFireman. I am Algonquin and we always argue with the Iroquois on ownership of Blessed Kateri Tekakwitha…Odile 53 will disagree with me when I claim Kateria as one of our own…but really she is an Iroquois with one parent from our tribal group…and yes we use the word Aboriginal in Canada…I apologized that I was misunderstood, so I think it is “all good” now…

Cheerz and Blessings

Bruce Ferguson
Glad that’s cleared up. Now could you work on the US and Canada? ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120104/first-aboriginal-saint-nationality-debate-120104/

:rotfl:
 
Glad that’s cleared up. Now could you work on the US and Canada? ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120104/first-aboriginal-saint-nationality-debate-120104/

:rotfl:
I think that she belongs to the world now…and her nation was later Canada and the US just as mine is partly in Quebec, Ontario and New York, so what nation am I…well I’m Canadian but I enjoy full rights - under the Jay Treaty - to work in the United States. and I did for a year in Texas…good point Catholic Fireman…wasn’t even aware that Kateri was born in New York.

I think Canada and the US should share both our Saint Tekakwitha and the Canadian Oil that we all wanna pipe down to you guys 🙂

|Cheerz

Bruce
 
I think that she belongs to the world now…and her nation was later Canada and the US just as mine is partly in Quebec, Ontario and New York, so what nation am I…well I’m Canadian but I enjoy full rights - under the Jay Treaty - to work in the United States. and I did for a year in Texas…good point Catholic Fireman…wasn’t even aware that Kateri was born in New York.

I think Canada and the US should share both our Saint Tekakwitha and the Canadian Oil that we all wanna pipe down to you guys 🙂

|Cheerz

Bruce
Amen to all you said, Bruce. 🙂
 
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