St John of Damascus quote- Catholic commentary

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“We do not change the boundaries marked out by our Fathers. We keep the Tradition we have received. If we begin to lay down the Law of the Church even in the smallest things, the whole edifice will fall to the ground in no short time.”
  • St. John of Damascus

    Are they any Latin Rite views/insights into this quote- especially regarding how much our traditions have changed in the Latin Rite Church? As a Latin Rite Catholic myself, I do believe the Church is organic and the Church has evolved in both the East and West. Is St John saying we cannot change traditions and liturgy at all? Do you think changes here in the West have been made a bit too flippantly? Since the Second Vatican Council changes, do things look like they may go back to more traditional in the future or more progressive? Is there any discussion on how this may affect our relationship with the East and any considerations by the hierarchy that we may need to go back to shared traditions we used to have?
 
“We do not change the boundaries marked out by our Fathers. We keep the Tradition we have received. If we begin to lay down the Law of the Church even in the smallest things, the whole edifice will fall to the ground in no short time.”
  • St. John of Damascus

    Are they any Latin Rite views/insights into this quote- especially regarding how much our traditions have changed in the Latin Rite Church? As a Latin Rite Catholic myself, I do believe the Church is organic and the Church has evolved in both the East and West. Is St John saying we cannot change traditions and liturgy at all? Do you think changes here in the West have been made a bit too flippantly? Since the Second Vatican Council changes, do things look like they may go back to more traditional in the future or more progressive? Is there any discussion on how this may affect our relationship with the East and any considerations by the hierarchy that we may need to go back to shared traditions we used to have?
He is Saint and Doctor of the Church
newadvent.org/cathen/08459b.htm
 
“We do not change the boundaries marked out by our Fathers. We keep the Tradition we have received. If we begin to lay down the Law of the Church even in the smallest things, the whole edifice will fall to the ground in no short time.”
  • St. John of Damascus

    Are they any Latin Rite views/insights into this quote- especially regarding how much our traditions have changed in the Latin Rite Church?
Part of this runs back to the distinction between doctrine and discipline. The phrase “law of the Church” can refer to either one or both. Canon law can be called the law of the Church, even though it reflects discipline and can change. The phrase “law of the gospel” can also be called the law of the Church, even though it reflects doctrine and cannot change.

I don’t know the context of the quotation from St. John, but if I had to guess, I would guess he is referring to the latter: we cannot change doctrine even in the smallest things.

The Orthodox Churches also believe in a distinction between doctrine and discipline. As just one example among many, various Orthodox churches use different liturgies. Some use the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, others the liturgy of St. Basil, and there are several others in use as well. The fact that there are different liturgies is already an example of the distinction between discipline and doctrine, but even their names indicate this same distinction. St. Basil and St. John Chrysostom both modified earlier liturgies and created their own. You might say…they revised the liturgy. Which is what Vatican 2 did. Therefore, this has precedent among the saints.

In my experience, Catholics and Orthodox treat the doctrine/discipline distinction differently, even though we both believe in it. Perhaps we place different things on either side of that divide. I’m not sure, I can’t think of any examples right off the top of my head.

But what St. John Chrysostom wrote seems to refer to doctrine to me, and that definitely cannot change. It does not imply that the Church cannot change disciplines, it is actually very traditional to change disciplines whenever there is a good reason for it.

Does that help?
 
But what St. John Chrysostom wrote seems to refer to doctrine to me, and that definitely cannot change. It does not imply that the Church cannot change disciplines, it is actually very traditional to change disciplines whenever there is a good reason for it.

Does that help?
That does make sense- thank you. An Orthodox friend had posted this and was going on about “Western Innovations”. I think what you had wrote will help me answer him.
 
That does make sense- thank you. An Orthodox friend had posted this and was going on about “Western Innovations”. I think what you had wrote will help me answer him.
You’re welcome. You might like this article I wrote:

Doctrine versus Discipline in the Fathers of the Church
historyandapologetics.com/2016/01/church-fathers-on-doctrine-versus.html

Let me know if you like it. I think the quotes from St. John Chrysostom at that link are particularly insightful in this regard, because they mention that an ecumenical council has authority to make dramatic innovations in discipline (though not doctrine, of course). Plus, St. John Chrysostom is highly respected among the Orthodox, so it’s a win-win.
 
“We doThời trang nam ;
not change the boundaries marked out by our Fathers. We keep the Tradition we have received. IfThời trang nữ ; we begin to lay Áo sơ mi nữ ;
down the Law of the Church even in the smallest things, the whole edifice will fall to the ground in no short time.”
 
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