St. Josemaria Escriva and TCs

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ac_claire

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In the last few weeks of research on sedevacantism, the SSPX and Traditional Catholicism in general (yeah I know these three things aren’t all related or the same thing…just telling you what I’ve been researching), I’ve run across a lot of unexplained derisiveness towards St. Josemaria Escriva. Particularly from the sedes…which I guess could make sense b/c they reject JPII as an antipope and thus reject anything and everything he did.

I was just curious why Josemaria Escriva is singled out. I only read and sense the derisiveness, but there’s never a clear reason given. Plus I’d never heard anything bad about him or about Opus Dei from fellow Catholics until I started doing this research, which is why I’m curious.

TIA! 🙂

(Just a note: this is NOT meant to be a debate, or a “let’s bash a canonized saint!” thread. If it turns into one I’m going to ask the moderator to close the thread.)
 
Two reasons come to mind. The larger reason is that Opus Dei at its founding in 1928 anticipated one of the major messages of Vatican II, the universal call to holiness and the apostolate of the laity in the world. Since the Council is seen as such a great evil by these groups, anyone who put forth one if its ideas must be no good.

The second, smaller, nit-pickier reason is that, in spite of its fidelity to orthodox theology, Opus Dei celebrates the Mass in the Ordinary Form.

Just guessing.

Betsy
 
baltobetsy said:
Two reasons come to mind. The larger reason is that Opus Dei at its founding in 1928 anticipated one of the major messages of Vatican II, the universal call to holiness and the apostolate of the laity in the world. Since the Council is seen as such a great evil by these groups, anyone who put forth one if its ideas must be no good.

The second, smaller, nit-pickier reason is that, in spite of its fidelity to orthodox theology, Opus Dei celebrates the Mass in the Ordinary Form.

Just guessing.
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Good guesses though. Either of those might explain it.
 
Isn’t it true, though, that St Josemaria Escriva continued to celebrate Mass in the Extraordinary Form until his death? As Betsy said, the priests of Opus Dei celebrate Mass of the Ordinary Form, so perhaps it grieves sedevacantists or SSPX etc. that while St Josemaria held on to the traditional form himself, he didn’t make the Society of Opus Dei adhere to it as a whole… However, even if this were a valid point, Claire, I don’t think it would be a good enough reason to single out St Josemaria.
 
Isn’t it true, though, that St Josemaria Escriva continued to celebrate Mass in the Extraordinary Form until his death?
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Small point of clarification-- St. Josemaria did begin saying the new rite of the Mass when it became normative to do so. But given his advanced age and very poor eyesight, he found it extraordinarily difficult to make the change despite his best efforts. One of his associates, without the knowledge of St. Josemaria, went to the appropriate Vatican authorities to get permission for him to keep saying the Mass he’d been saying since his ordination in 1925. While he would never have sought it on his own initiative, when it was presented to him, St. Josemaria gratefully accepted the permission.

My own personal opinion is that he was between a rock and a hard place-- he was very supportive of the actual content of Vatican II (as opposed to the much-abused and -invoked “spirit”) and wanted to “put his weight” behind it, so to speak. Yet at the same time, his own spiritual life was deeply, deeply interwoven with his daily Mass, and when saying Mass became such an enormous struggle for him, I have to think he recognized the impact it was having on his interior life.

As far as the bigger question of why TC’s seem to be gunning for him-- I think Betsy’s assessment is spot on. Plus we try very hard (and I admit I still have a ways to go on this one myself!) to avoid criticizing bishops and priests, preferring to follow St. Josemaria’s advice to “drown evil in an abundance of good.” Some people seem to take offense if you won’t join them in bashing on Father So-and-so’s latest misdeed… 🤷

I think it’s a pity, actually, as I have in-laws very involved in the SSPX. They decry the loss of “Catholic Tradition” and can’t see that an awful lot of Catholics, not just in Opus Dei, are in fact keeping the beautiful practices of our Faith very much alive and well. We are most decidedly **not **the enemy here, or at least we shouldn’t be…

Best,

Margaret
 
Just a small detail to clarify a specific point: St. Josemaria prohibited his followers to ask for any dispensation for him “out of a spirit of obedience to ecclesiastical norms”.

The present Opus Dei prelate Bishop Javier Echevarría Rodríguez said that Escrivá strove to follow whatever was indicated by the competent authority regarding the celebration of Mass. When the new rites were adapted by the Catholic Church after Vatican II, Echevarría said that Escrivá “accepted the reform with serenity and obedience”. Since his prayer was much integrated with the liturgy for the past 40 years, Escrivá found the shift difficult and asked Echevarría to coach him in celebrating the new rites. Although he missed the practices of the old rites, especially some gestures such as the kiss on the paten which showed love, he prohibited his followers to ask for any dispensation for him “out of a spirit of obedience to ecclesiastical norms”. “He has decided to show his love for the liturgy through the new rite”, commented Echevarría. However, when Msgr. Annibale Bugnini, Secretary of the Consilium for the Implementation of the Constitution on the Liturgy, found out about Escrivá’s difficulties, he granted Escrivá the possibility of celebrating the Mass using the old rite. Whenever Escrivá celebrated this rite, he did so only in the presence of one Mass server.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josemaria_Escriva#Towards_the_liturgy
 
Just one thing–

Keep in mind that sedevacantism is neither traditional nor Catholic.
 
Red_Meg said:
Small point of clarification-- St. Josemaria did begin saying the new rite of the Mass when it became normative to do so. But given his advanced age and very poor eyesight, he found it extraordinarily difficult to make the change despite his best efforts. One of his associates, without the knowledge of St. Josemaria, went to the appropriate Vatican authorities to get permission for him to keep saying the Mass he’d been saying since his ordination in 1925. While he would never have sought it on his own initiative, when it was presented to him, St. Josemaria gratefully accepted the permission.

My own personal opinion is that he was between a rock and a hard place-- he was very supportive of the actual content of Vatican II (as opposed to the much-abused and -invoked “spirit”) and wanted to “put his weight” behind it, so to speak. Yet at the same time, his own spiritual life was deeply, deeply interwoven with his daily Mass, and when saying Mass became such an enormous struggle for him, I have to think he recognized the impact it was having on his interior life.

As far as the bigger question of why TC’s seem to be gunning for him-- I think Betsy’s assessment is spot on. Plus we try very hard (and I admit I still have a ways to go on this one myself!) to avoid criticizing bishops and priests, preferring to follow St. Josemaria’s advice to “drown evil in an abundance of good.” Some people seem to take offense if you won’t join them in bashing on Father So-and-so’s latest misdeed… 🤷

I think it’s a pity, actually, as I have in-laws very involved in the SSPX. They decry the loss of “Catholic Tradition” and can’t see that an awful lot of Catholics, not just in Opus Dei, are in fact keeping the beautiful practices of our Faith very much alive and well. We are most decidedly **not **the enemy here, or at least we shouldn’t be…

Best,

Margaret
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The Tridentine Mass has never been made illicit by the Holy See… many bishops around the word would not allow their priests to say the Tridentine Mass, but the Holy See never forbade it. Unless the bishop where he was had authority over him and this bishop would not allow him to say the Tridentine Mass, then he would not have to receive permission to say the Tridentine Mass. There was even a kingdom or country or whatever somewhere around Britain whose bishop never disallowed the Tridentine Mass for at least a very long time, so their priests could freely practice this form (at least that’s what I’ve heard). As Pope Benedict XVI puts it, the Tridentine Mass was never “abrogated”. While the Tridentine Mass was never forbade by the Holy See, the many bishops of the world did forbade it in their diocese. This is why Pope John Paul II asked for the bishops to be more charitable in allowing priests to say that Mass at their request. And, PJPII had hoped that priests could pray the Tridentine Mass then more freely. But, still many bishops did not allow it and such, SO Pope Benedict XVI decided to make it so that priests could freely practice the Tridentine Mass without having to fear being disobedient to their bishop. Still today, some bishops are hostile to their traditional priests, but we pray that they may have a conversion of heart.

Padre St. Pio and St. Josemaria Escriva both prayed the traditional Mass… I don’t think Padre Pio EVER prayed a Novus Ordo and he excused this by his old age and inability to learn the Novus Ordo.
 
ac_claire said:
In the last few weeks of research on sedevacantism, the SSPX and Traditional Catholicism in general (yeah I know these three things aren’t all related or the same thing…just telling you what I’ve been researching), I’ve run across a lot of unexplained derisiveness towards St. Josemaria Escriva. Particularly from the sedes…which I guess could make sense b/c they reject JPII as an antipope and thus reject anything and everything he did.

I was just curious why Josemaria Escriva is singled out. I only read and sense the derisiveness, but there’s never a clear reason given. Plus I’d never heard anything bad about him or about Opus Dei from fellow Catholics until I started doing this research, which is why I’m curious.

TIA! 🙂

(Just a note: this is NOT meant to be a debate, or a “let’s bash a canonized saint!” thread. If it turns into one I’m going to ask the moderator to close the thread.)
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I don’t know much about these groups you mention, but I did want to share that I went to a Mass that Opus Dei priests did. It was unbelievably beautiful and very traditional compared to the parish I normally go to. Perhaps they need to see for themselves an Opus Dei priest say the Mass before they comment further. I was amazed.
 
Maybe is something like the relation between the TFP and the Montfort Cultural Association?

God Bless You !!!
:):)🙂
 
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