St Josemaria's advice on marraige - this shocked me!

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So women are to blame for husbands straying? What about the man’s own soul and his sense of morality and committing a mortal sin within the holy sacrament of marriage. I am quite astounded by this it comes across as very secular advice.

stjosemaria.org/articles/177-st-josemaria-escriva-10-questions-about-marriage
  1. What would you advise married women to do to ensure that their marriages continue to be happy with the passing of the years and that they do not give way to boredom? This question may not seem very important, but it is one asked by many people.
    “I think it is in fact an important question and therefore the possible solutions are also important even though they may seem very obvious. If a marriage is to preserve its initial charm and beauty, both husband and wife should try to renew their love day after day, and that is done through sacrifice, with smiles and also with ingenuity. Is it surprising that a husband who arrives home tired from work begins to lose patience when his wife keeps on and on about everything she thinks has gone wrong during the day? Disagreeable things can wait for a better moment when the husband is less tired and more disposed to listen to them.
Another important thing is personal appearance. And I would say that any priest who says the contrary is a bad adviser. As years go by a woman who lives in the world has to take more care not only of her interior life, but also of her looks. Her interior life itself requires her to be careful about her personal appearance; naturally this should always be in keeping with her age and circumstances. I often say jokingly that older facades need more restoration. It is the advice of a priest. An old Spanish saying goes: ‘A well-groomed woman keeps her husband away from other doors.’

That is why I am not afraid to say that women are responsible for eighty per cent of the infidelities of their husbands because they do not know how to win them each day and take loving and considerate care of them. A married woman’s attention should be centered on her husband and children, as a married man’s attention should be centered on his wife and children. Much time and effort is required to succeed in this, and anything which militates against it is bad and should not be tolerated.

There is no excuse for not fulfilling this lovable duty. Work outside the home is not an excuse. Not even one’s life of piety can be an excuse, because if it is incompatible with one’s daily obligations, it is not good, nor pleasing to God. A married woman’s first concern has to be her home. There is a Spanish saying which goes: ‘If through going to church to pray a woman burns the stew, she may be half an angel, but she’s half a devil too.’ I’d say she was a fully-fledged devil.”
(Conversations with Saint Josemaria Escriva, 107)
 
pepipop said:
So women are to blame for husbands straying? What about the man’s own soul and his sense of morality and committing a mortal sin within the holy sacrament of marriage. I am quite astounded by this it comes across as very secular advice.

stjosemaria.org/articles/177-st-josemaria-escriva-10-questions-about-marriage
  1. What would you advise married women to do to ensure that their marriages continue to be happy with the passing of the years and that they do not give way to boredom? This question may not seem very important, but it is one asked by many people.
    “I think it is in fact an important question and therefore the possible solutions are also important even though they may seem very obvious. If a marriage is to preserve its initial charm and beauty, both husband and wife should try to renew their love day after day, and that is done through sacrifice, with smiles and also with ingenuity. Is it surprising that a husband who arrives home tired from work begins to lose patience when his wife keeps on and on about everything she thinks has gone wrong during the day? Disagreeable things can wait for a better moment when the husband is less tired and more disposed to listen to them.
Another important thing is personal appearance. And I would say that any priest who says the contrary is a bad adviser. As years go by a woman who lives in the world has to take more care not only of her interior life, but also of her looks. Her interior life itself requires her to be careful about her personal appearance; naturally this should always be in keeping with her age and circumstances. I often say jokingly that older facades need more restoration. It is the advice of a priest. An old Spanish saying goes: ‘A well-groomed woman keeps her husband away from other doors.’

That is why I am not afraid to say that women are responsible for eighty per cent of the infidelities of their husbands because they do not know how to win them each day and take loving and considerate care of them. A married woman’s attention should be centered on her husband and children, as a married man’s attention should be centered on his wife and children. Much time and effort is required to succeed in this, and anything which militates against it is bad and should not be tolerated.

There is no excuse for not fulfilling this lovable duty. Work outside the home is not an excuse. Not even one’s life of piety can be an excuse, because if it is incompatible with one’s daily obligations, it is not good, nor pleasing to God. A married woman’s first concern has to be her home. There is a Spanish saying which goes: ‘If through going to church to pray a woman burns the stew, she may be half an angel, but she’s half a devil too.’ I’d say she was a fully-fledged devil.”
(Conversations with Saint Josemaria Escriva, 107)
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Wow!

I despise any advice that implies that it is a woman’s fault when her husband strays. I’m not saying it is impossible for it to be her fault in a particular circumstance… In the same way, it can be a man’s fault when his wife strays. But a general statement like that riles me.

And by the way, both the man and the woman should keep up their appearances.

This post is a good example that shows that Saints are not perfect and you don’t have to agree with every thing they say. His opinion is probably a product of his culture.

This is why it is important to have discernment.
 
If marriage was based only on people keeping their good looks all the years of marriage, then many of us should be single and unmarried who do not measure up to what the media tells us. So many people in my family were very good looking when younger but for various reasons no longer physically good looking due to aging, weight gain or loss, etc.

Then again, I would not want to marry someone who would want me to partake in every beauty treatment to guarantee that he would not stray away.

Like the actor Paul Newman once said when asked why he never cheated on his wife Joanne Woodward: “Why should I go out for hamburger, when I have steak at home?” and to me that means he has a spouse he loves & loves him back, why should he seek out cheap comfort.
 
In this highly feminist age, it is difficult for women to confront objective truth.
 
I think that it is wrong to discount the effect of the spouse on someone who strays.

Yes, the person (man or woman) who strays from the marriage is responsible for his.her actions. Absolutely. However, there is something wrong in the marriage for this to happen, and to absolve the person who was betrayed of any responsibility at all is also wrong.

Is it looks? No, I certainly hope not. But, we do owe it to ourselves and our spouses to look the best we can, take care of ourselves, do as much around the house as we can, communicate as best we can, and cooperate with the graces we get as part of the sacrament that binds us.
 
This was typical mindset of his day. It must be rememebered that just because they are in heaven doesn’t make everything they say or did here on earth is ‘dogma’.
 
PaulinVA said:
I think that it is wrong to discount the effect of the spouse on someone who strays.

Yes, the person (man or woman) who strays from the marriage is responsible for his.her actions. Absolutely. However, there is something wrong in the marriage for this to happen, and to absolve the person who was betrayed of any responsibility at all is also wrong.

Is it looks? No, I certainly hope not. But, we do owe it to ourselves and our spouses to look the best we can, take care of ourselves, do as much around the house as we can, communicate as best we can, and cooperate with the graces we get as part of the sacrament that binds us.
Click to expand...
I agree to a point, however life circumstances intervene. For example my SIL has been chronically ill most of her life with numerous operations that of course have taken a dreadful toll on her ‘looks’. My brother is still with her, which leads back to the marriage vows ‘in sickness and in health’. Also, what about a spouse that was scarred or severely burnt in an accident - is the husband supposed to walk out and look further afield.
 
I believe this is both true, and not true. If a woman leads a life of advertising by her looks, and eventually attracts a mans attention by means of her outward appearance, and finally marries him she should keep up her end of the bargain and deliver what was advertised. But at the same time, nothing, warrants a husband to cheat.

Just my humble two cents.
 
pepipop said:
I agree to a point, however life circumstances intervene. For example my SIL has been chronically ill most of her life with numerous operations that of course have taken a dreadful toll on her ‘looks’. My brother is still with her, which leads back to the marriage vows ‘in sickness and in health’. Also, what about a spouse that was scarred or severely burnt in an accident - is the husband supposed to walk out and look further afield.
Click to expand...
I think he covered that with this.
Her interior life itself requires her to be careful about her personal appearance; naturally this should always be in keeping with her age and circumstances. I often say jokingly that older facades need more restoration
Click to expand...
 
Consider how liberalized society has become since St Josemaria wrote that. We live an era where people now practically apologize for or are ashamed of being Catholic. Still, I’d have a hard time imagine St Josemaria tell a man who was cheating on his wife, that it’s not really your fault.
 
I would place much less importance on how the spouse looks. There are always going to be people who appear more attractive, but that’s not the real problem.

It is much more important for the spouse to feel loved, appreciated, and desired.

It takes an effort on both sides for marriages to work.Try to find out what your spouse perceives as affection - and give it to them. Help with a chore, give a spontaneous hug, a touch on the back. In short - think about their needs and give love. Then you will be loved in return.

Peace,
John
 
pepipop said:
So women are to blame for husbands straying? What about the man’s own soul and his sense of morality and committing a mortal sin within the holy sacrament of marriage. I am quite astounded by this it comes across as very secular advice.

stjosemaria.org/articles/177-st-josemaria-escriva-10-questions-about-marriage
  1. What would you advise married women to do to ensure that their marriages continue to be happy with the passing of the years and that they do not give way to boredom? This question may not seem very important, but it is one asked by many people.
    “I think it is in fact an important question and therefore the possible solutions are also important even though they may seem very obvious. If a marriage is to preserve its initial charm and beauty, both husband and wife should try to renew their love day after day, and that is done through sacrifice, with smiles and also with ingenuity. Is it surprising that a husband who arrives home tired from work begins to lose patience when his wife keeps on and on about everything she thinks has gone wrong during the day? Disagreeable things can wait for a better moment when the husband is less tired and more disposed to listen to them.
Another important thing is personal appearance. And I would say that any priest who says the contrary is a bad adviser. As years go by a woman who lives in the world has to take more care not only of her interior life, but also of her looks. Her interior life itself requires her to be careful about her personal appearance; naturally this should always be in keeping with her age and circumstances. I often say jokingly that older facades need more restoration. It is the advice of a priest. An old Spanish saying goes: ‘A well-groomed woman keeps her husband away from other doors.’

That is why I am not afraid to say that women are responsible for eighty per cent of the infidelities of their husbands because they do not know how to win them each day and take loving and considerate care of them. A married woman’s attention should be centered on her husband and children, as a married man’s attention should be centered on his wife and children. Much time and effort is required to succeed in this, and anything which militates against it is bad and should not be tolerated.

There is no excuse for not fulfilling this lovable duty. Work outside the home is not an excuse. Not even one’s life of piety can be an excuse, because if it is incompatible with one’s daily obligations, it is not good, nor pleasing to God. A married woman’s first concern has to be her home. There is a Spanish saying which goes: ‘If through going to church to pray a woman burns the stew, she may be half an angel, but she’s half a devil too.’ I’d say she was a fully-fledged devil.”
(Conversations with Saint Josemaria Escriva, 107)
Click to expand...
I may be alone in saying this, but I agree, mostly, with St. Josemaria. I don’t think he was speaking idealistically, but practically. He also came from a different society and culture, so we’ll have to take this in to account before we jump down his throat. I am hesitant to say more because I know I’m already in the minority. 😊
 
Samuel63 said:
In this highly feminist age, it is difficult for women to confront objective truth.
Click to expand...
Yep.

St. JoseMarie is a wise man. A great Saint. His words need to be heeded, not denigrated. We need to take off our secular filters and listen to what he is saying.

There’s a great book, out of print now, that has similar themes. It’s called Cana is Forever. Luckily, EWTN has it on their site:

ewtn.com/library/MARRIAGE/CANA4EVE.TXT
 
I think this is the most reactionary misogynistic drivel I have ever read. Opus were extremely lucky that Pope John Paul, was sympathetic to their aims and canonised Escriva. I am ver grateful that here on the UK our late Cardinal Hume was very careful to control Opus’ activities
 
JohnMPhilomena said:
I would place much less importance on how the spouse looks. There are always going to be people who appear more attractive, but that’s not the real problem.

It is much more important for the spouse to feel loved, appreciated, and desired.
It takes an effort on both sides for marriages to work.Try to find out what your spouse perceives as affection - and give it to them. Help with a chore, give a spontaneous hug, a touch on the back. In short - think about their needs and give love. Then you will be loved in return.

Peace,
John
Click to expand...
Looks do play some part in desirabilty. Yes people’s bodies do change over time and child birth does wonders for a woman’s figure. These changes one can accept but it’s the changes that can be controlled that could be addressed. Like your basic grooming.
 
Jimmygill88 said:
I think this is the most reactionary misogynistic drivel I have ever read. Opus were extremely lucky that Pope John Paul, was sympathetic to their aims and canonised Escriva. I am ver grateful that here on the UK our late Cardinal Hume was very careful to control Opus’ activities
Click to expand...
Now now, show Saint Josemaria the respect he is due. He was a wise, pious, God-fearing man. Plus, Opus Dei is a fine movement that promotes prayer, sacrifice, and fasting.

Saint Josemaria Escriva, Pray for us!
 
PeterJohn said:
I believe this is both true, and not true. If a woman leads a life of advertising by her looks, and eventually attracts a mans attention by means of her outward appearance, and finally marries him she should keep up her end of the bargain and deliver what was advertised.
Click to expand...
And when he develops a beer gut and stops shaving on week-ends…?
 
I love St Josemaria Escriva, (though I have no interest nor intent toward Opus Dei. )
and I thank him for the reminder of this advice. Dubiously proposed statistics nothwithstanding, the heart of these words are wise.

Tomorrow is our 24th wedding anniversary. We’re going through a rough patch right now. Work and kids and tiredness and stuff has been challenging us for a while-- both individually and as a married couple.

Ive often turned to St Josemaria’s words for guidance. This morning, i come on caf to find his guidance is waiting here for me. Precise. More than relevant. Perfect timing.

Onward and upward.
 
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