St. Malachy: Only one more pope left

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Why is this thread under Sacred Scripture? The poem’s not in the Bible. Heck, it wasn’t even by St. Malachy.
 
Ron_Conte said:
I think that the tribulation lasts many years, and so there are a number of Popes, not just Peter the Roman, who successively reign during the tribulation.

Also, I think that the tribulation is divided into two parts, with a brief time of peace after the first part, and a long time of peace after the second part.

My timeline is speculative eschatology; the basis for it is complex.
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Just curious, but what is the basis for it, however complex it may be? And whatever happened to only the Father knowing the hour?
 
GeorgeSword said:
Just curious, but what is the basis for it, however complex it may be? And whatever happened to only the Father knowing the hour?
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Jesus was referring to the day and hour of His Return. He did not say that no dates or times, and no future events, can be known in advance.

My eschatology is based on an interpretation of various passages in Scripture, on a study of Catholic eschatology (including writings of Saints and Blesseds), and on the words of the Virgin Mary at La Salette, Fatima, etc.
 
Judgment Day is always at hand. There are always wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes, storms, and big crazy signs. There are always apparitions and visions warning us. The saints and prophets are always warning us. God has never been shy about pointing out that He could end the world at any time, just like He’s not shy about pointing out that any of us could die at any time. The Four Last Things are always at hand, both corporately and individually.

(If it’s not blasphemous, I would liken this to Joe Bob Brigg’s famous principle of drive-in movies – anyone can die at any time for any reason.)

“Don’t make Me come down there!”, “Repent now!”, and “Stay awake and keep watch!” are the only things we should be noticing about these messages of impending doom. Trying to use them to tease out dates is fruitless.
 
This is somewhat off-topic but with regards to end-times speculation, I would highly recommend “TRIAL, TRIBULATION, AND TRIUMPH” by Desmond Birch.

ewtnreligiouscatalogue.com/TRIAL+TRIBULATION+AND+TRIUMPH/cid=37/page_no=1/edp_no=4423/shop.axd/ProductDetails

It compiles many of the teachings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church as well as **approved **private revelation to give a hypothesis as to how the end times will play out. Very scholarly and quite an addictive read.

Rough outline:
  • minor chastisement (end of this faithless age)
  • age of peace (restoration and flourishing of Christendom - the book says “Pope calls an Ecumenical Council which will viewed as the greatest in the history of the Church” so we, hypothetically, have several more popes to go)
  • major chastisement (antichrist)
So I doubt Malachy’s list is correct because we prolly got at least a few more centuries before all this, hypothetically, plays out.
 
po18guy said:
I choose not to go beyond the words of our Lord Himself in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32. For all who have ever lived, the end times have already come, when they drew their last breath. It is that end time for which we should “stay awake”. If we expect the end to come each day, we shall not be surprised if and when it does.
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👍 I like to think this way also rather than go off some speculative tangent.
When Christ came to the world during the First Advent there were prophecies many hundreds of years before from the Jews, the Gentiles, the Greeks and even the Chinese knew by their sages. Nobody despite all the prophecies knew of the exact time, date or hour. So it will be in the eschatology of Christ’s Second Advent. Even Jesus stated He knew neither knew the time our hour, Only the Heavenly Father knows. What better to throw off the Proud, even the Elite will be fooled. But when Christ does Come there will be NO mistaking amongst those who Believe and those who do not.

Therefore Stay Awake O Sleeper of the Night!
 
centurionguard said:
👍 I like to think this way also rather than go off some speculative tangent.
When Christ came to the world during the First Advent there were prophecies many hundreds of years before from the Jews, the Gentiles, the Greeks and even the Chinese knew by their sages. Nobody despite all the prophecies knew of the exact time, date or hour. So it will be in the eschatology of Christ’s Second Advent. Even Jesus stated He knew neither knew the time our hour, Only the Heavenly Father knows. What better to throw off the Proud, even the Elite will be fooled. But when Christ does Come there will be NO mistaking amongst those who Believe and those who do not.

Therefore Stay Awake O Sleeper of the Night!
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i agree, but we are not talking about the Second coming here. This is about the end of this evil age and weroa pf peace promised in Fatima and Revelation 20.
 
lee01238 said:
i agree, but we are not talking about the Second coming here. This is about the end of this evil age and weroa pf peace promised in Fatima and Revelation 20.
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Personally for what it is worth I don’t believe the Peace described in Fatima or Apocalypse Chapter 20 is the kind of peace that this world in particular is familiar with, which is too mundane. I’d say this type of peace is under the auspices of spiritual peace. Something that most or shall I say few in this world have not only yet to experience but also comprehend.

Read here: haydock1859.tripod.com/id306.html
 
lee01238 said:
newadvent.org/cathen/12473a.htm#malachy

It’s interesting that the current events seem to confirm this prophecy. The way things are going I’d say we have time for exactly 1 more pope and after that the long awaited era of peace prophesied in Fatima and Revelation 20:3.
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The very same page of the C.E. you link states:
It has been noticed concerning Petrus Romanus, who according to St. Malachy’s list is to be the last pope,** that the prophecy does not say that no popes will intervene between him and his predecessor designated Gloria olivæ. It merely says that he is to be the last, so that we may suppose as many popes as we please before “Peter the Roman”**. Cornelius a Lapide refers to this prophecy in his commentary “On the Gospel of St. John” (C. xvi) and “On the Apocalypse” (cc. xvii-xx), and he endeavours to calculate according to it the remaining years of time.
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Also some historians claim that the prophecy of St. Malachy is a forgery…

Karl Keating writes abpout this (catholic.com/newsletters/kke_050531.asp)
The confusion arises from the way the last pope on the list is described: “In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock amid many tribulations, after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people. The end.”
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What is unclear is whether Peter the Roman is supposed to reign immediately after the next-to-last-listed pope or at some indeterminate later time, with any number of popes serving between our present Pontiff and Peter the Roman.
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But set all that aside. Consider the prophecy as a whole**. Although Malachy lived in the twelfth century, the prophecy attributed to him was unknown until the sixteenth century, when it was “discovered” in a Vatican archive**, where it supposedly had lain forgotten for four centuries. One problem is that none of Malachy’s biographers make any reference at all to the prophecy. In fact, there is no mention of it by anyone prior to its “discovery.”
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A bigger problem is the aptness of the papal descriptions.** Those popes who reigned between Malachy’s time and 1590 are described with great accuracy. After 1590, the descriptions become obscure.** In many cases devotees of the prophecy have been unable to explain how a particular description could refer to the pope to which it corresponds. Many post-1590 descriptions simply make no sense.
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Catholic scholars, following the lead of a Jesuit researcher of the seventeenth century, say that the prophecy of St. Malachy did not originate with the saint at all but is a forgery worked up to influence the conclave that elected Gregory XIV. It would have been easy for a forger to make up descriptions of popes who lived before his time, but he would have had to rely on creative obscurity to describe popes of succeeding centuries.
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Read the resto of the article too, it’s quite interesting.
 
I read this and it does mention Pope Benedict and his Olive branch and the last Pope being Peter of Rome and their only being 112 Popes. Also go’s on to mentione that for their to be a Peter of Rome as the next Pope? Then he would have to NOT change his name. There’s only “ONE” person this could be. The Super Info HWY is certainly a trip.

I understand the messages of Fatima and Akita also. You know I’ve gave this a lot of thought. I would imagine most have. It ceratinly doesn’t look good. But what can we do? More importantly as I’ve aged I watched this civilization change into something so corrupt and vile now. That It wouldn’t surprize me if GOD came tommorrow.

Pray the Rosary daily…follow the Path. “WE” as Catholicas have that responsibility. “Many Souls go to Hell because their is nobody to pray for them”. Do what you are here on Earth to do REDEEM. Speculation is fine and it makes for some interesting converstion. But the only control over this we have? Is not to sin and to convert sinners. Thats it.

The Blessed Mother has already said the Dogma of the Faithfull will survive as will earth. But I have never had such a feeling of closeness to the end times and Doom as I now have. Something terrible is coming, and I could feel it in my Bones. I had a premonition and its not gonna be as long as some may think.
 
my interpretation is that the next Pope on St. Malachy’s list, who is also the last Pope on the list, is not the last Pope ever. He is merely the last Pope on the list because he reigns at the start of the tribulation. But the tribulation is divided into two parts. The return of Jesus is in the distant future, at the end of the second part of the tribulation. And we are on the threshold of the first part of the tribulation.
 
Spencerian said:
Hi.

I’m wondering where you are finding the data that supports your assertion here. The text in this Catholic Encyclopedia also is specious about St. Malachy’s prediction, noting that we as Catholics can assume that there may be many more popes before this “Peter the Roman” pontiff assumes the Chair.

That said, predictions such as these are typically without any fruit. Remember, Christ said that no one will know the time or place of the General Judgment. I would think that St. Malachy and others are no exception.
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Hi Spencerian, I think that I can help you out there. The data is most probably being sourced from, “The Last Pope” (sub-title, “The Decline and Fall of the Church of Rome”, by John Hogue, published by, ELEMENT Books Ltd., Shaftesbury, Dorset, * Boston, Massachusetts and Melbourne, Victoria. Also published in USA in 2000 by Element Books Inc., 160 North Washington Street, Boston MA 02114. John Hogue also has a website for more information, www.hogueprophesy.com Also, the Authorised KJV says in ref. to The End, “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven…etc,etc,.”, but you were probably quoting from the D-R Bible.

Christian regards, ALISANDRO.
 
actually St. Malachy prophecy is very probably real, and only has 111 popes on the correct list, with this pope being the last.

There is a lot of bogus info out there by people who for whatever reason refuse to believe any of it.

I have read several what I consider to be accurate pieces of information about it, including this one. These make sense to me:

newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon85.htm
 
from reading alot of the ascribed mottos and how they supposedly fit to certain Popes, it all looks a bit ridiculous to me concerning the way people interpret them. It seems as though people are trying to force an explanation, like pushing a square peg into a round hole. I have read some of the most ridiculous explanations for why a certain motto is paired with a certain Pope. perhaps the most ridiculous is that one of the words used in the motto rhymes with the certain Pope’s last name…please, cmon now that is just nonsense. I cant even find explanations for certain Pope’s not to mention Anti-popes are listed as well with motto’s prescribed to them. it all seems like a muddled mess to me.

I am not discounting the fact that St. Malachy perhaps did prophecy something, but its pure speculation to try and make sense of it considering none of us saw what he supposedly saw. By the logic of many, we should expect the antichrist to appear on the scene in a few years, rome is just going to be destroyed, and btw Christians are going to be killed in droves. Of course I am not saying that that wont happen, but as bad as our society is, it still maintains some level of civility, at least for now.
 
Actually I am amazd at how Catholic prophecies seem to be flowing together at this point in time. The Malachy prophecy is one example. Benedict also said a member of his order would fight the anitchirst in the latter days or some such thing. I think he misinterpreted it as many visionaries do - I think Benedict XVI is symbolic of the Benedictine Order (Pope Benedict has an affinity for that order) and he is already fighting the spirit of antichrist as it attacks the Church (priest sex scandals, secualr authorities seizing control over Church matters etc.) * in what could be the last days.

St. Louis de Montfort spoke of Mary being great in the latter days and heralding the arrival of her Son. She is hear at Fatima, Garabandal, Medjugorje etc in a big way.

Anyway, we will see!*
 
lee01238 said:
I don’t think there was ever anything close to what we have now and especially what’s coming in this decade except maybe for the Red terror in the communist Soviet Union.

Abortion for one thing is totally unique to our times and that is not going to stop unless God puts an end to it. And abortion is only one of many evils.

I will be very surprised if nothing monumental happens in the next 10-15 years. And by that I mean complete elimination of evil from the whole earth. In other words chastisement.
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You may be right. No doubt there is evil in the world, and we’d all be lucky to spend eternity with God sooner rather than later, but I see little evidence that the world is worse now than ever. We have a history were we watched lions eat humans for sport, we’ve seen our own church turn on hundred thousands of orthodox Christians in the crusades, we’ve burned and killed our own saints and those who have told the truth. We’ve seen plenty killed in the reformation for having slightly different views, the holocaust, Christians owning humans and many other ills. Abortion is an amazing evil, and there certainly wouldn’t be surprise if these were end times, but Christians have also thought that for thousands of years now.
 
“… but Christians have also thought that for thousands of years now.”

I always here this argument - but it is false. It implies the present world will never end. But we know it will end. One generation will be the generation.

Those making this argument - I ask you this: what signs would you need to see to think the end might actually be upon us? No matter what happens, it is dismissed.

A careful look at today shows it to be different than any other time, and also shows most of those things Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24 having been fulfilled.
 
How well does it dovetail with Fatima or other Church acknowledged apparitions? While we do not know the day and the hour, what about the month or the year or the decade?

There have been, are and will be prophecies. That’s de fide.

It certainly gives me a salutary sense of urgency about my need to make reparation.
 
Therefore judge not before the time: until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts; and then shall every man have praise from God. 1 Corinthians 4:5

And we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him: That you be not easily moved from your sense, nor terrified, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by epistle, as sent from us, as if the day of the Lord were at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition… 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

Church-confirmed prophecies should be compared to the word; there won’t be any contradictions. The times are only a matter of guesswork, and (IMHO) mostly futile.
 
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